RFK, Jr.

[tallslenderguy]

RFK, Jr's MAHA report is a good example to me of why and how we as a country should not veer into extremist, polarized stances and how both sides have the potential of bringing something beneficial to our country, but this is the first i have seen any administration go after the big, highly processed food industry, and i'm paying close attention. Really want to see once the big food industry strikes back whether this administration will continue?   This is an area of study (and certification) for me as a health care provider. Easily 85% of the patients i care for in hospital on a critical care unit are there with diet related diseases. There is a ton of, ever mounting, study evidence connecting highly processed foods to the top major/killer diseases in the US.  

We are in a very similar place with highly processed 'food' industry today as we were with the tobacco industry during the 60's and 70's, with the major difference  that more people eat than smoke.  

"For decades, tobacco companies hooked people on cigarettes by making their products more addictive. Now, a new study suggests that tobacco companies may have used a similar strategy to hook people on processed foods. In the 1980s, tobacco giants Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds acquired the major food companies Kraft, General Foods and Nabisco, allowing tobacco firms to dominate America’s food supply and reap billions in sales from popular brands such as Oreo cookies, Kraft Macaroni & Cheese and Lunchables. (O'Connor, 9/19)"

[think before following links] https://kffhealthnews.org/morning-breakout/your-favorite-junk-food-big-tobacco-may-have-worked-to-get-you-hooked/#:~:text=In the 1980s%2C tobacco giants Philip Morris and,Oreo cookies%2C Kraft Macaroni %26 Cheese and Lunchables.

 

[hntnhole]

On 5/23/2025 at 12:23 PM, tallslenderguy said:

[think before following links] [think before following links] https://kffhealthnews.org/morning-breakout/your-favorite-junk-food-big-tobacco-may-have-worked-to-get-you-hooked/#:~:text=In the 1980s%2C tobacco giants Philip Morris and,Oreo cookies%2C Kraft Macaroni %26 Cheese and Lunchables

I didn't know that, and I bet most other Americans didn't (don't) either. 

Apparently, the more dough one has, the more dough one craves - literally !!

[nanana]

Here are some happy images of the medical profession recommending Lucky Strikes: [think before following links] https://tobacco.stanford.edu/cigarettes/doctors-smoking/20679-physicians/

Not sure why people are so trusting of the medical profession. Many amazing care providers but they have to deal with the same corrupting forces that most other professions have to deal with. 

[nanana]

@PozBearWI not that you need my permission but you’re welcome to trust anyone you want. Im having a hard time with your reaction though. Do you think that doctors 50 years ago were fundamentally different in their savvy than current doctors are? Don’t just do a shitty red downvote. Share your wisdom and make me smarter. Or without regard to my smartness at least answer these questions: 1) how do you interpret the medical profession’s  willingness to endorse the healthfulness of Lucky Strikes 50 years ago? AND 2) if they were fundamentally different than they are now, what makes them trustworthy now? (Or maybe you smoke Lucky Strikes or own their stock so you perceive wisdom in the doctors who advocated that smokers choose Lucky Strikes for their healthy qualities? I know you have a brain @PozBearWI so can you at least share your insights as to why you think the medical profession is more trustworthy now than during the Lucky Strikes era? (Too much to ask?)

Edited Tuesday at 11:20 PM by nanana
Changed a “that” into a “than”?

[PozBearWI]

1, I interpret the change in cigarette policy due to research and growing knowledge.  Yes it was a silly idea in the 50's, but we learned.  

2. Medicine is imperfect but a far cry better than witch doctors or just hoping.  

[nanana]

You rock! Thanks for making your thought process clear @PozBearWI

[nanana]

Okay another question. Have we stopped learning such that all mistakes are in the past?

[SomewhereonNeptune]

There's a saying that goes that 'if the government says it's healthy, it's a good idea to do the opposite'. For instance, everyone by now knows the 'Food Pyramid' that recommends high amounts of carbs and low amounts of healthy fats (or unhealthy ones). This article from Australia tells some of the story behind its origins, and the story of the flawed science presented by Ansel Keys.
[think before following links] https://wearechief.com/en-us/blogs/articles/the-corrupt-history-of-the-food-pyramid?srsltid=AfmBOoqPBBNPr4jv9Oe1MK1Ri8Zcn-4tZrXhPOUuAHRqGsezVVD56tgj
 

I'll do everyone a solid and give you the TLDR punchline: As the diet guidelines took hold (eat more carbs), obesity and type II diabetes showed a marked increase in first world populations who were now chowing down on Ultra Refined/Processed Foods. And more recent science that hasn't necessarily pushed a political agenda has shown that fats are actually healthy. That's aligned also to the later prevalence of diets like Atkins, South Beach, and Keto as blood chemistry diets that resulted in weight loss as well as improved blood chemistry that lowered glucose and A1C.

17 minutes ago, nanana said:

Have we stopped learning such that all mistakes are in the past?

Nope. We're clearly still making them. Some people are trying to correct them, but you can also bet that the food and beverage lobbies will pressure lawmakers to deep-six this bill in the Texas Legislature:
[think before following links] https://www.fox26houston.com/news/texas-food-warning-labels-sb25

[nanana]

What makes people think that we weren’t bought off to forget the wisdom?  @pozbearwi without wishing to make your knowledge from god incorrect what makes you think that we’re on a continuous unsubsidized continuous increase of knowledge? I guess In your mental model all rackets ended in the 1950’s? Yet I’ve seen you describe Trump as a treasonous traitor. So only evil in the past that you perceive stopped in the past and didn’t continue into the now? 
if our doctors were corruptible 50 years ago and they are now incorruptible what will smokers (or pro-vaxxers or food pyramid advocates or [insert current narcissistic hegemonic health blah-blah-blah here)] in 2075? I think most fans of health modernism imagine that technology will break through our current medical superstitions but it won’t be technology it will be people in whatever year that is current being willing to question the momentary orthodoxy based on whether people are their healthiest or not. 

[nanana]

I would almost hazard to assert (no facts here sweet fact-checkers) that the Buddha himself is not as enlightened as any doctor that happened to exist after a Lucky-Strike doctor, naturally they all learned from the profitable glamorous mistakes of their medical predecessors. 

[verslut]

If RFK Jr. is so adversarial to big food, why is he taking money from Steak 'n Shake for his MAHA french fries? And last I checked, deep frying in beef fat is not healthy.

[think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/steak-n-shake-rfkd-fries-became-maha-darling-rcna196201

Watch him spread anti-vaccine conspiracies in this interview... hosted at a Steak 'n Shake restaurant.

[think before following links] https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lk5hdz6jbz2o

 

Edited yesterday at 02:45 AM by verslut

[SomewhereonNeptune]

14 hours ago, verslut said:

If RFK Jr. is so adversarial to big food, why is he taking money from Steak 'n Shake for his MAHA french fries? And last I checked, deep frying in beef fat is not healthy.

So I asked AI for the answer to "why beef tallow":

Beef tallow, derived from the fat of cows, offers several potential benefits, including supporting immune function, promoting healthy skin, and potentially contributing to weight loss efforts. It's also a good source of essential fat-soluble vitamins like A, D, E, and K. 

Here's a more detailed look:

1. Immune Support and Vitamin Absorption: Beef tallow is rich in fat-soluble vitamins, which are crucial for various bodily functions, including immune support, bone health, and cellular function. It can help the body absorb these vitamins more effectively.

2. Skin Health and Hydration:  Beef tallow's composition closely resembles natural oils produced by the skin, making it a good moisturizer. It can help hydrate and strengthen the skin barrier, potentially reducing inflammation and irritation. Some claim it may improve skin elasticity. 

3. Weight Management:  The saturated fats in beef tallow can contribute to feelings of satiety, potentially helping to curb cravings and reduce overall calorie intake.  It can be part of a low-carb or ketogenic diet for weight loss. 

4. Cooking and Flavor Enhancement:  Beef tallow has a high smoke point, making it suitable for high-heat cooking like frying and roasting. It can add a rich, savory flavor to dishes. According to the Coast Packing Company, tallow can even increase fry life and reduce cleaning time.

5. Other Potential Benefits:  Some research suggests beef tallow may have anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties. It's also a source of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), a polyunsaturated fatty acid with potential health benefits. According to the Gutsy Ferments website, tallow contains butyric acid, which may support gut health. 

For years, a ton of different fats were maligned, such as coconut oil, avocado oil and others. Olive oil has always been considered good, but revised research is coming forward that outlines the benefits of other fats, such as beef tallow. Other research is taking a renewed look at oils, such as canola and others, and how their processing may have a negative effect on their composition (Refined, Bleached, Deodorized or RBD oils). But Canola Oil (which is a GMO version of rapeseed oil) is the darling of big food, so you need to dig deep on the research that pulls out the negative components.
[think before following links] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1357272509003252

So what's the answer? Perhaps not all we've been told by big food is reliable, and perhaps the wisdom of our ancestors who used tallow needs more research. RFK's general point has been to move the American diet away from ultra-processed foods that remove nutrients, which in itself isn't necessarily a bad idea. The only true answer is more independent research not funded by the same interests supporting big food or big pharmaceutical companies.

[viking8x6]

6 hours ago, SomewhereonNeptune said:

So I asked AI for the answer to "why beef tallow"...

For years, a ton of different fats were maligned, such as coconut oil, avocado oil and others. Olive oil has always been considered good, but revised research is coming forward that outlines the benefits of other fats, such as beef tallow. Other research is taking a renewed look at oils, such as canola and others, and how their processing may have a negative effect on their composition (Refined, Bleached, Deodorized or RBD oils). But Canola Oil (which is a GMO version of rapeseed oil) is the darling of big food, so you need to dig deep on the research that pulls out the negative components.
[think before following links] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1357272509003252

So what's the answer? Perhaps not all we've been told by big food is reliable, and perhaps the wisdom of our ancestors who used tallow needs more research. RFK's general point has been to move the American diet away from ultra-processed foods that remove nutrients, which in itself isn't necessarily a bad idea. The only true answer is more independent research not funded by the same interests supporting big food or big pharmaceutical companies.

Indeed, all of that is just the tip of the iceberg - we humans have learned a great deal about things, and the one thing that has become most abundantly clear is how much we have yet to learn!

A few further points on dietary fats:

Re. tallow - all tallow is not the same. Its degree of "healthiness" (or lack thereof) depends on many things - how it is refined, how it is stored, how it is used, and of course what the cow eats Why Canadian Butter Isn't as Soft as it Used to Be

Re. canola oil - "canola oil" per se is not necessarily GMO; "canola" refers to a hybrid rapeseed oil that is low in erucic acid (which has negative health effects on humans and other animals). Oleic acid (the subject of the linked article) is a major component of not only canola, but most other vegetable oils high in monounsaturated fat, including olive oil (for which it is named). Canola oil actually has a "better" ratio of w-3 to w-6 fatty acids than most commercial vegetable oils (particularly soybean, which is used nearly as heavily by the industry as canola). But of course canola and soy are both predominantly grown in GMO versions (assuming you aren't buying organic), although the most likely health risk of GMO vegetable oil is the probability of pesticide residues from the herbicide-heavy industrial agriculture practices enabled by the GMO versions. And on and on.

More unbiased science on all of this could be helpful, certainly. Slashing the government science budget might not be the best way to achieve that, but hey, what do I know? I'm just a scientist 😉 

And of course no one in the corridors of power would dare dream of floating the possibility that the best way of supplying the basic sustenance and health needs of humans might be neither multinational corporate capitalism nor the state-owned communist approach.

 

I like Michael Pollan's (pithy and to-the-point) dietary advice:

"Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."

 

[nanana]

@versslut you raise a good point (except I dont agree with your views on meat think it’s super healthy with all the caveats @viking8x6 added. What makes you more concerned about RFK Jr than any of the following ex-leaders of US health agencies, ALL of whom went to work for pharma or agribusiness? Do their entanglements just get a free pass?

HHS (Department of Health and Human Services):

Alex Azar: After serving as HHS Secretary from 2018-2021, Alex Azar became a senior executive in residence at the Miami Herbert Business School. He previously worked at Eli Lilly and Company as President of their U.S. division. 

FDA (Food and Drug Administration):

Patrizia Cavazzoni: Formerly the head of the FDA's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, she became chief medical officer at Pfizer.

Scott Gottlieb: After serving as FDA Commissioner from 2017-2019, Scott Gottlieb joined the board of directors of Pfizer.

Mark McClellan: Following his time as FDA Commissioner, Mark McClellan served on the board of Johnson & Johnson.

Andrew von Eschenbach: This former FDA Commissioner later joined the board of Bausch Health.

Margaret Hamburg: After leaving the FDA, Margaret Hamburg became a director at Alnylam Pharmaceuticals.

Lester Crawford: He served on the board of Bexion Pharmaceuticalsafter his time as FDA Commissioner.

Stephen Hahn: Former FDA Commissioner, Stephen Hahn joined Flagship, a company formation firm that helped create Moderna. 

USDA (Department of Agriculture):

Clifford M. Hardin: After serving as Secretary of Agriculture from 1969-1971, he joined the Purina Corporation.

Richard Lyng: Former USDA Secretary, he later formed an agricultural consulting firm, Lyng and Lesher Inc.. 

NIH (National Institutes of Health):

Elias Zerhouni: The former NIH Director joined Boston Pharmaceuticals as the new Chair of its board of directors. 

CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention):

Julie Gerberding: After her tenure as CDC Director, she became an executive vice president at Merck, a large pharmaceutical company.