Hotload84

Ah. Thanks. Interesting. I'll think about it.

It's not too hard to figure out, just basic algebra should give a decent model.

I agree, HungLatinDom, the question could be expressed by algebra, but I don't really have much sense of what variables are at issue, nor do I have much sense of how to express those variables in algebra. I imagine one must take into consideration the different specific type of strain the tops are or may be carrying, the specific health of the two individuals, and find some way of expressing the likelihood of sero-conversion, which would also entail a consideration of how adept the bottom is at taking cock up his ass.

It surely would be interesting to see how a mathematician would construct the formula.

Interesting. I can't imagine if your experience, Getagrip, is just a matter of the luck of the draw or if you're on to something.

"SCHULZE: A common denominator of AIDS is they hate their lives...The common denominator I found in most people with AIDS...[t]hey hated their lives. They thought because they were homosexual, they were going to hell and burn for eternity I mean, you can imagine what went on in their minds. They were immune risks. I had on file patient ---- a man who used to go to the bath houses and have oral sex with 12-15 men in a night--- swallow a pint of semen. Let me put it this way: I have never ever seen anybody get AIDS who didn't tell me a story of their past that didn't make me just about want to vomit. Okay? I thought I was a pretty hip dude. I mean, I'm from the Woodstock generation. I thought I'd been around a little bit, and when these people come.. well, it's just too much. Most people who get AIDS have the worst life styles. They stay up all night long, they use massive amounts of drugs. You know, when you have multiple sexual partners, it's an immune risk because, you know, when you have sex with someone, whatever that someone is, you're sharing bodily fluids, and our immune system has to eat that. And so, if you're having 12 different partners in a night, your immune system's blowing out. And I you know what the bottom line is, healthy people don't get AIDS. They get sick, but they don't get AIDS."

The above quotation is an extract from Richard Schulze's website. I think I'll stick with Atripla.

So how about being fucked by undetectable guys? Is it safer than taking anonymous loads?

This is one of those questions that makes me wish I were more adept at higher mathematics. I vaguely can imagine this question is not so much a matter of medical opinion, but more based on probability outcomes. To devise a formula that would take into consideration all the variables that go into calculating the likelihood of an given individual being pozzed in two separate scenarios, one where one top is poz, but undetectable, and the other occasion where the sero-status of the top is unknown, is far beyond what I can imagine, particularly without really thinking about it. We need a mathematician who is accustomed to working in medical probability outcomes. Any out there?

Hey Hotload84, maybe I need to come down there and you can whore me out

You'd be more successful, CumslutUSA, attending one of the larger BB parties advertised on BBRTS. Occasionally as many as 100 guys have signed-up, and, assuming a 50% no-show rate, that still leaves fifty guys into raw play. At this minute there is a party scheduled for 10/22 somewhere in Philadelphia. Forty-five guys have signed-up, and not a single guy has identified himself as an exclusive bottom. Of course it might be quicker for you to travel to Manhattan where the BBRTS listings show even even larger parties.

Not unless there's some other utterly compelling reason, such as the foreplay or the guys really trip my trigger.

"It's way easier to fuck than it is to be social.” How true. I think the only thing to do is laugh, TheBreeder.

I've only encountered a few guys who have this condition, and I don't recall that it impeded their (or my) enjoyment!

There's such a dark room at the Adonis in Philadelphia, RawPigDad. It's in the basement of the theater. The lighting is minimal, just enough to keep one from falling on one's ass. Of course there are no showers to clean-up, but cluster fucks are not uncommon, particularly in the late hours.

Hotload, I'd really be interested in your opinion when you're done.

Looking forward to it, TheBreeder. I'll be sure to shoot you a message.

Another well written tale, RawPigDad. I've moved it to Chem Sex - FICTION because of the mention of the date-rape drug, by which I take it you mean GHB.

Hope you have a fun session, Joebottombb.

It's a shame you're so far from Philadelphia, CumslutUSA. I'm sure you'd be a welcome addition to the BB crowd in this corner of the Commonwealth.

"But human reactions don't always follow logic and sense. And I'm still shocked. And numb. And overwhelmed. But not upset."

Sounds like you are well positioned to deal with the ramifications of seroconversion, Danny. Welcome, and best wishes.

Pigskintop--one of my readers informed me (and I'm pretty sure he's right) that the book is John Alan Lee's "Getting Sex."

Glad your reader was able to provide a title and author, TheBreeder. I just ordered a first edition published in '78. Should be interesting to compare the writer's suggestions and my experiences.

Great story, Gymguy8. Thanks for posting. I've removed the hard returns.

If memory serves correctly, Breedboy, in the scene you describe one can actually see O'Toole's balls retracting as they spew the cum into Nick. I agree with your description: Plantin' Seed I, and in particular that scene, is remarkably exciting.

My favorite is Midtowne, especially the basement where I had my first mass fucking/gangbang.

1350 and Flex are second due to location and usually a good place to play or to just kill the afternoon on the sundeck. The places can be dead sometimes but have rarely left without something happening, not always memorable though.

Melrose and Roman Holiday have been a waste of time for me. Haven't been to Melrose for years but the place was a dive and empty most of the time. Roman Holiday is either empty or the guys there are too uptight to be useful.

In the mid to late 90s the Melrose was fairly busy, particularly on weekend afternoon-evening. I found Flex more miss than hit, but the pool was nice, and you're right, the location is very convenient. Roman Holiday (on Victory Blvd.) - well, the pool was nice and the mural impressive. I found the two Hollywood Spas (Ivar Street and Vineland) largely for pretty boys. Never visited the BH in Venice.

I don't know your idioms. We don't call them that in this country...

I should think Americans would refer to a sports kit bag as a gym bag.

I met a guy that really got into getting his nuts hit over and over again until they where blue and almost bleeding...all swollen...that's how he got off! It was hot hitting him! Of course we were both flying on Tina!

I've run into about a dozen guys over the years, Bobbie, who were turned-on by CBT, sometimes demanding a degree of 'torture' that was beyond my ability to inflict. Never got too comfortable with it - maybe because my sensitivity is relatively high, so I quickly get nervous about inflicting what I would consider excruciating pain.

The closest I can think are some of the early HDK movies, not all of the guys, but most of them get fucked. SOme of the fisting ones are quite impressive, but the guys are regular guys, older, a bit chunky, hairy, etc. Just how I like them

I seem to recall Gas Lamp Video produced a fair number of videos where there was no absolute distinction between the tops and bottoms. Most of their guys also met HungLatinDom's description.

Huh. I visited 1350 twice, and both times found it virtually dead, so I never went back. Your story, LBRaw, makes me wish I had not so quickly given-up on the place. Like Bttm2go, the Midtowne on Kohler became my favorite bath house, followed by the Melrose.

I asked my doctor about the average time lapse between seroconversion and onset of set point. She said it typically will occur within two to three months of seroconversion, but occasionally will take upwards to a year. She continued saying it's all a function of how virulent the strain of HIV is, and how adept one's body is to figuring-out how to deal with it.

In my case, it dropped within 2 months of infection. At one point it was over 30K, came down to under 5K. At first the virus is unchecked, then your antibodies start being tailored to it, and that's when the VL drops.

That makes sense, HungLatinDom. My experience was similar to your's.