Trump supporters?

[nospokenword]

1 hour ago, timfreo said:

Trump turned around the American economy like no President before him. Making America First a priority did wonders, considering the economic wasteland left to him by Obama. Dear God, if Sleepy Joe and wherever her name is, get into power and bring in that "New Green Deal" America will become a backwater nursing off the economic teat of the Chinese. 

Hate Trump for any reason you want but America and the World needs him there. 

 

You are objectively incorrect. President Obama turned around the economy and Trump inherited that from him. Nationalistic statements like American First are short-sighted. That, combined with his launching his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists and drug dealers and that he wanted to close our borders was the first signs on fascism. It isn't just a name that those of us on the left throw around, but linked to the many similarities between Trump and the fascists of the 20th century like Hitler. Trump is a danger not only to Americans, but to the world.

[timfreo]

🤣🤣🤣 rose coloured glasses of the proletariat 

[nospokenword]

1 hour ago, TeenCumDump said:

Sure, Trump has been fairly absent when it comes to listening to medical advice but what real advice is there that he didn't follow when it comes to Covid-19? Trump didn't use teargas, the police did when the violent protestors decided to start throwing objects and/or fighting the police - don't pretend that these rioters are peaceful, it was never peaceful. From day ONE they were destroying property. Deployed federal police because democratic state government wouldn't allow police to break up the rioters who were destroying local businesses, fighting each other, robbing businesses, killing each other. Trump never denied climate change, he left the Paris agreement because it didn't include countries such as China, India and Russia (the biggest contributors of global warning etc.) and instead wanted to keep restricting the United States who don't produce anywhere near as much as the three I've listed. 

 

The popular vote really means nothing. If the popular voted counted then states like California, that breed liberals, would always decide the victor despite how the rest of the country might feel. I don't see any negatives to the EC unless you dislike the outcome. 

Trump ignored all the safety recommendations because he was afraid they would hurt the economy and his reelection chances. Medical experts say that with better leadership, we could have prevented more than 100,000 deaths to date. When you compare to the leadership of other countries with more component leaders, like New Zealand, Trump's actions are pure evil. Trump ordered the military to use teargas to clear a peaceful crowd so that he could walk across the street for a photo op. The military leader in charge of that said that he regrets his decision to comply with that order. Further, the right of citizens to protest police murder of Black and Brown citizens is more important than property. Further more, it is patently false to say that we left the Paris agreement because countries like China and India weren't part of the Paris climate agreement, because they were and are part of the agreement.

Finally, the whole point of the United States is that our government operates with our consent. That means we need democratically elected officials. To say that the popular vote doesn't matter flies in the very spirit of that basic American principle. What gives the right for an unqualified, 6x bankrupt casino owner and reality show host who is deeply unpopular with the majority of Americans to preside over our government? It is a complete sham. He doesn't have a mandate to lead. No president is a legitimate leader if they can't gain the respect and consent of a majority of Americans.

[Guest TeenCumDump]

9 minutes ago, nospokenword said:

Trump ignored all the safety recommendations because he was afraid they would hurt the economy and his reelection chances. Medical experts say that with better leadership, we could have prevented more than 100,000 deaths to date. When you compare to the leadership of other countries with more component leaders, like New Zealand, Trump's actions are pure evil. Trump ordered the military to use teargas to clear a peaceful crowd so that he could walk across the street for a photo op. The military leader in charge of that said that he regrets his decision to comply with that order. Further, the right of citizens to protest police murder of Black and Brown citizens is more important than property. Further more, it is patently false to say that we left the Paris agreement because countries like China and India weren't part of the Paris climate agreement, because they were and are part of the agreement.

Finally, the whole point of the United States is that our government operates with our consent. That means we need democratically elected officials. To say that the popular vote doesn't matter flies in the very spirit of that basic American principle. What gives the right for an unqualified, 6x bankrupt casino owner and reality show host who is deeply unpopular with the majority of Americans to preside over our government? It is a complete sham. He doesn't have a mandate to lead. No president is a legitimate leader if they can't gain the respect and consent of a majority of Americans.

Yes, the economic damage a lockdown could, and did, cause is enough of an economic hit to affect everyone. That's not a decision someone can make lightly and was really a last resort to slow transmission. I don't think anyone can blame him for not making that decision sooner as I still think it was a poor decision given the massive amount of job loss, lack of medical treatment for people battling cancer and other types of cancer/diseases, but thank goodness we're slowing transmission of a virus which only 0.4% of deaths can be confirmed to have been caused directly by covid. To blame Trump for every death is simply just nonsense so I won't even respond to that because we both know it's absurd. Rioting over a criminal who was killed due to his own careless actions is not a valid reason to destroy property and never will be. It was never peaceful, I remember from day one they were raiding police stations and destroying property. From that moment they lost any chance of real support. Now they're just pushing swing voters towards Trump. As the climate change, the Paris Agreement was just that...an agreement with self-set goals and really had zero governing authority so it quite literally is a waste of time for every nation involved.

 

Trump was democratically elected, that's just an objective fact. You can complain all day but the electoral college is going to remain because it work and is fair for every state. The fact an unqualified person became president should tell you just how poor of a job Obama and Biden really did... Also, neither candidate got the popular vote. They both didn't reach the percentage required. Hillary may have gotten more votes but not enough to win the popular vote. 

[nospokenword]

3 minutes ago, TeenCumDump said:

Yes, the economic damage a lockdown could, and did, cause is enough of an economic hit to affect everyone. That's not a decision someone can make lightly and was really a last resort to slow transmission. I don't think anyone can blame him for not making that decision sooner as I still think it was a poor decision given the massive amount of job loss, lack of medical treatment for people battling cancer and other types of cancer/diseases, but thank goodness we're slowing transmission of a virus which only 0.4% of deaths can be confirmed to have been caused directly by covid. To blame Trump for every death is simply just nonsense so I won't even respond to that because we both know it's absurd. Rioting over a criminal who was killed due to his own careless actions is not a valid reason to destroy property and never will be. It was never peaceful, I remember from day one they were raiding police stations and destroying property. From that moment they lost any chance of real support. Now they're just pushing swing voters towards Trump. As the climate change, the Paris Agreement was just that...an agreement with self-set goals and really had zero governing authority so it quite literally is a waste of time for every nation involved.

 

Trump was democratically elected, that's just an objective fact. You can complain all day but the electoral college is going to remain because it work and is fair for every state. The fact an unqualified person became president should tell you just how poor of a job Obama and Biden really did... Also, neither candidate got the popular vote. They both didn't reach the percentage required. Hillary may have gotten more votes but not enough to win the popular vote. 

Do you understand what the electoral college is? It is not the same as being democratically elected. Democratically elected means the person with the most votes wins. Clinton received millions more votes than Trump. Because he has only ever governed for his minority of the country, he's never managed to even crack 50% approval. He is an illegitimate president.

[BootmanLA]

2 hours ago, timfreo said:

Trump turned around the American economy like no President before him. Making America First a priority did wonders, considering the economic wasteland left to him by Obama. Dear God, if Sleepy Joe and wherever her name is, get into power and bring in that "New Green Deal" America will become a backwater nursing off the economic teat of the Chinese. 

Hate Trump for any reason you want but America and the World needs him there. 

This is just stupidly, stupidly wrong.

Absolutely and totally stupidly wrong.

So wrong it's almost impossible to describe how wrong it is.

The US economy had been steadily improving on all fronts - employment, stock market, GDP growth, reduction in deficit, etc. - throughout the Obama years, once he turned around the Bush Great Recession. That's a fact.

EMPLOYMENT:

Under Trump, fewer jobs were created in his first three years than in Obama's last three years. (So I guess you could say he turned that around, except that it's going the wrong direction). Since just after his third year in office ended, Trump's record has been disastrous, due in large measure to his completely incompetent response to the Covid crisis.

STOCK MARKET:

As for the stock market, the DJIA was at 8077.56 on January 20, 2009, and falling, thanks to Bush's recession. It further fell to 6626.94. By the end of his eight year term, the DJIA was at 19827.25. That means during his term, it increased 145% over what it was when he took office, and a whopping 199% over its lowest point early in his presidency. 

Under Trump, the Dow peaked at 29551.42, which is certainly a high, but then again most of the "getting there" took place under Obama. At its peak, the Dow was up just 49% over what it was when Trump took office - about 1/3 of what Obama did, or 1/4 of what he did after the market hit its low point in the Great Recession. And those are pre-Covid numbers AND after Trump threw $2 trillion at rich people and big companies in tax cuts and tax breaks.

GDP GROWTH:

None of Trump's first three years in office showed more than 3% GDP growth, even after that $2 trillion tax cut/break, which his people assured us would give us 4-5% growth. In fact, we only hit 3% itself, barely, one year, just after his tax giveaway. Otherwise, his GDP growth (until this year) was about 2.2%. Which is right about where it was under Obama, who (again) had to climb out of a recession he inherited.

DEFICIT:

After an initial spike in the deficit caused by the extraordinary measures needed to fight the Great Recession, the US budget deficit declined steadily under Obama, dipping below $500 billion for a few years. Under Trump, it reached $984 billion BEFORE Covid, and there's no end in sight for what we'll have to spend to recover from his ineptitude there.

SUMMARY:

Virtually every positive trend under Trump is one that started under Obama, and has slowed or remained the same under Trump. A few things have changed direction, but they're all changing in a BAD direction.

Thank god at least you can't vote here - unless Trump's expanded his foreign interference program to include Australia.

[Guest TeenCumDump]

1 minute ago, nospokenword said:

Do you understand what the electoral college is? It is not the same as being democratically elected. Democratically elected means the person with the most votes wins. Clinton received millions more votes than Trump. Because he has only ever governed for his minority of the country, he's never managed to even crack 50% approval. He is an illegitimate president.

Of course, and that's exactly why Donald Trump won and Hillary lost despite having more votes. Hillary, however, did not get enough to win the popular vote. I can't imagine why he hasn't cracked 50% approval rating...Not like Democrats waged a two-year investigation to turn up nothing, or an impeachment to turn up nothing, or recently discovered to be inferring with his 2016 campaign allowing Hillary access to moderator questions prior to debates, attacked by everyone who doesn't like another straight white guy in office. The fact he's never hit over 50% mean literally nothing in the modern day. He's still president, he's still clearly got plenty of support, and the Democrats are handing him an easy second term with their nomination pick and handling of nearly everything going on right now.

[drscorpio]

6 minutes ago, TeenCumDump said:

Of course, and that's exactly why Donald Trump won and Hillary lost despite having more votes. Hillary, however, did not get enough to win the popular vote. 

Hillary DID win the popular vote by a little over 3 million votes. 

Trump won because of the Electoral College. The Electoral College is a vestige of the compromises that were necessary to forge a nation out of the industrial North and the agrarian, slave-holding South in the 1780s. It gives undue influence to a bunch of states in the mountain west that are mostly empty space. Most states award their electoral votes winner-take-all which means that a handful of voters in swing states decide the election whenever it is close. 

Right now, this system favors the Republican party. Every election cycle, Texas gets a little more competitive between the two parties as Latinx voters become the majority ethnicity there. Once Texas starts to vote reliably Democratic the advantage of the electoral college will shift. I expect we will see it abolished soon after. (I acknowledge this paragraph is speculative)

[BootmanLA]

2 hours ago, TeenCumDump said:

Sure, Trump has been fairly absent when it comes to listening to medical advice but what real advice is there that he didn't follow when it comes to Covid-19? Trump didn't use teargas, the police did when the violent protestors decided to start throwing objects and/or fighting the police - don't pretend that these rioters are peaceful, it was never peaceful. From day ONE they were destroying property. Deployed federal police because democratic state government wouldn't allow police to break up the rioters who were destroying local businesses, fighting each other, robbing businesses, killing each other. Trump never denied climate change, he left the Paris agreement because it didn't include countries such as China, India and Russia (the biggest contributors of global warning etc.) and instead wanted to keep restricting the United States who don't produce anywhere near as much as the three I've listed. 

 

The popular vote really means nothing. If the popular voted counted then states like California, that breed liberals, would always decide the victor despite how the rest of the country might feel. I don't see any negatives to the EC unless you dislike the outcome. 

You live across the ocean. You see a limited part of what's going on. Trump's people (whether it was the AG, the NPS head, or whomever) DID use tear gas to clear peaceful protesters near the White House so that Hair Furor could get a photo op holding up a Bible while trespassing on the private property of a church across from the White House - a move that the rectors of the church denounced. 

Are there violent protests? Sure. Most that are violent have turned that way because right-wing groups - this country's most serious terrorism problem - started riots. We have teenaged assholes illegally taking semi-automatic rifles across state lines to murder protesters and "Christian" groups crowd-fund half a million dollars to pay his legal fees. Don't forget the worthless POS right-wing white supremacist bum who drove his fancy hot rod to Charlottesville and drove at high speed into a crowd, killing one of the PEACEFUL demonstrators. And on and on - when things turn violent, it's usually because right-wingers have decided to make them violent.

As for the bullshit that "Trump never denied climate change" - again, you only see limited amounts of what our officials say. Trump's expressed disagreement with climate change repeatedly and publicly and loudly. The fact that you don't hear it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

As for your poor math skills regarding the electoral college: California, for all its size, has just over 12% of the vote. Texas - a much more conservative state - has almost 8.5% of the vote. Florida - which has gone for the Republican in 3 of the last 5 races, including Trump's, has nearly 7% of the vote. 

More importantly, the fact that a huge state like California always goes to the Democrats means that the voice of 1/3 or so of Californians never gets heard - because they vote Republican. In a popular vote system, that 1/3 of the state's voters - which amounts to about 10 million voting-age people - WOULD get heard. A popular vote doesn't guarantee a liberal outcome; it guarantees that the voice of the majority is what decides. The ONLY reason to oppose that is if you believe Republican policies are so unpopular that they'd never win a majority.

[BootmanLA]

30 minutes ago, TeenCumDump said:

I don't think anyone can blame him for not making that decision sooner as I still think it was a poor decision given the massive amount of job loss, lack of medical treatment for people battling cancer and other types of cancer/diseases

Funny, many other countries did the same, enforced the restrictions more quickly, and most now have the virus under control. Trump refused to act for more than a month, nearly two, after he was told bluntly how bad this could be, and we're all paying the price. THAT'S why we had such huge job loss and THAT'S why he's to blame.

32 minutes ago, TeenCumDump said:

Trump was democratically elected, that's just an objective fact. You can complain all day but the electoral college is going to remain because it work and is fair for every state. The fact an unqualified person became president should tell you just how poor of a job Obama and Biden really did... Also, neither candidate got the popular vote. They both didn't reach the percentage required. Hillary may have gotten more votes but not enough to win the popular vote. 

No, he was not "democratically elected". And it's true that neither candidate received a MAJORITY of the popular vote, but one - Clinton - did receive a plurality; it just didn't mean anything because of a system our founders created to preserve the power of slave states.

You don't understand the simple English language term "won the popular vote". Clinton did. "Winning a popular vote" does not mean winning a majority; it means winning the plurality, or the most votes cast. 

Tell you what, TeenTwit: I'll refrain from criticizing the archaic English parliamentary system, which I barely understand in rudimentary form, and in return please stop opining about US political systems you clearly don't know jack shit about.

[BootmanLA]

24 minutes ago, TeenCumDump said:

Of course, and that's exactly why Donald Trump won and Hillary lost despite having more votes. Hillary, however, did not get enough to win the popular vote. I can't imagine why he hasn't cracked 50% approval rating...Not like Democrats waged a two-year investigation to turn up nothing, or an impeachment to turn up nothing, or recently discovered to be inferring with his 2016 campaign allowing Hillary access to moderator questions prior to debates, attacked by everyone who doesn't like another straight white guy in office. The fact he's never hit over 50% mean literally nothing in the modern day. He's still president, he's still clearly got plenty of support, and the Democrats are handing him an easy second term with their nomination pick and handling of nearly everything going on right now.

See, here's one thing you don't understand. There is ALWAYS a winner of the popular vote; it's not always someone with a majority, but someone always wins it. Clinton won it.

Even if she HAD gotten a majority of the vote, however, she wouldn't have won the presidency. 

And as for the two-year investigation: it turned up plenty. When you're read the entire Mueller report and can understand it well enough to answer questions about it - many of which will be complex questions of US law, so be prepared - then you can opine on it. Until then, you're just rambling bullshit.

Likewise for impeachment. Everyone here knows that the evidence of wrongdoing was overwhelming. The problem we have is that one party is so dedicated to sucking up to its leader, afraid that he'll unleash his nutcase right-wing gun-toting mouth-breathing moron base on them, that they voted to acquit without hearing from a single witness. 

As for your shit take that "the Democrats are handing him an easy second term"..... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

No, seriously.... 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

He might pull out a win, through voter suppression and other antics. It won't be an easy win. But then I don't expect you to understand anything about us. You clearly don't.

[BootmanLA]

14 minutes ago, drscorpio said:

Right now, this system favors the Republican party. Every election cycle, Texas gets a little more competitive between the two parties as Latinx voters become the majority ethnicity there. Once Texas starts to vote reliably Democratic the advantage of the electoral college will shift. I expect we will see it abolished soon after. (I acknowledge this paragraph is speculative)

Perhaps. I'm more worried that Texas (which will still have a GOP governor and (probably) legislature, will simply pass more voter suppression measures to try to push the state back into the red zone. They may have to lose a few other states in addition for that to really take place.

[Guest takingdeepanal]

14 hours ago, holefucker said:

I'm afraid that that whole episode where he vaporized 200,000 innocent civilians lowers my opinion of Truman. 

You mean instead of allowing 5-6 million to slowly starve to death as they were totally blockaded, plus another 1 million of your own people and perhaps another 2 million Allied personnel and another 250,000+ POWs if there was an invasion of the Japanese mainland?

Also, bear in mind that firebombing killed 250,000+ in one night when Tokyo was partially flattened.

[Guest takingdeepanal]

29 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

And as for the two-year investigation: it turned up plenty. When you're read the entire Mueller report and can understand it well enough to answer questions about it - many of which will be complex questions of US law, so be prepared - then you can opine on it.

If the Mueller Report was based on the Steele Report, it was a case of GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out).

Trump is odious - but if you're going to hang someone, make sure the charges stick.

[Guest takingdeepanal]

54 minutes ago, drscorpio said:

Trump won because of the Electoral College. The Electoral College is a vestige of the compromises that were necessary to forge a nation out of the industrial North and the agrarian, slave-holding South in the 1780s. It gives undue influence to a bunch of states in the mountain west that are mostly empty space. Most states award their electoral votes winner-take-all which means that a handful of voters in swing states decide the election whenever it is close. 

Right now, this system favors the Republican party. Every election cycle, Texas gets a little more competitive between the two parties as Latinx voters become the majority ethnicity there. Once Texas starts to vote reliably Democratic the advantage of the electoral college will shift. I expect we will see it abolished soon after. (I acknowledge this paragraph is speculative)

Nobody on either side has seriously pushed for the 11th Article of the Bill of Right -, which affords true proportional representation (1 Representative for every 500,000 citizens) - to be ratified. If this was to happen, then the numbers would increase overnight from 435 to almost 6,600. If the Democratic Party fully and irrevocably cut all recognition of Cuba (barring the processing of visas), it would start to win more of the Latinx vote in Florida.

The 12th Amendment is also seriously screwed. It needs to be revised to allow two members of each Party to run for POTUS - and for the VPOTUS election to be scrapped. That way, each Party ends up with either the POTUS or VPOTUS position - and they'd be forced to work with one another.