Snubbed by a 60 YO for using Prep

[BlackDude]

2 hours ago, DarkroomTaker said:

An unfair comment, why would you think its ok for younger guys to be accepted by you to do this? sounds like you are being ageist, anyway moving along.

Is it not his choice?, you dont know his lifestyle, circumstances etc.afterall it is his body to choose what he does with it, yes he was impolite, but hey ho, that could just be how he is, his manner, not excusable, but you do not know him.

 

If I was ageist, I wouldn’t have responded to his message. Funny how you accuse me of being ageist, but him of only being impolite. But moving right along....
 

No one is arguing his right to choose, no one is trying to “force” him have sex but this is an open forum where we can bring topics for discussion and people give their opinion.
 

I was simply sharing my experience to ask others to give an additional perspective. 

Edited March 31, 2021 by BlackDude

[Guest]

I'm in that guy's same age category (56), but obviously have a WAY different attitude toward raw sex since I'm on here and you can read my posts lol.  I think there are guys who lived through the 80s and 90s and had such a horrific experience knowing so many friends and partners who died young that they just can't get it out of their heads that barebacking is "bad".  Even though I started having sex at 20 yo - in 1985 - I fortunately didn't have that experience.....but I can't really put myself in someone else's head to know what they're thinking.  He did NOT need to be rude to you though - you're not going to change the mind of a total stranger on a hookup site one way or the other.  The minute someone gets rude I move on or block them if needed.

As far as guys taking your prep loads, I have seen plenty of guys lie about their status too.  I have recently seen the same guy who says he's on prep on scruff, but he's UD on bbrt.   Both "safe enough" for me, but obviously he's lying on one site....maybe both.  So many guys lie about SOMETHING in their profile - height/weight or age - same guy might lie about being on Prep if it'll help him get laid.   In reality he's smart not to believe a total stranger who says he's on prep if he wants to stay neg....HE should be on prep himself.  I think people lie about a lot on their profiles.

Last point - I re-started barebacking in my  mid 30s, but I was trying to top mostly to stay safer.....but I was vers and caving in a lot.  When I was in my mid 40s approaching 50 and there was no prep, I did confide in a couple friends that if I hit 50 and still neg I wasn't going to care and just let loose.  I was having a lot of incredible raw sex, but not really pigging out like I wanted to in groups and sex clubs.   Prep came out around me when I was 49, and I jumped on it lol.  It turned me into a total vers slut until covid.  So I'm not on anything right now, but I'll trust you if you're in Atlanta and wanna pump your prep jizz up my daddy hole so I can help you get over that other rude daddy!

[cum4cubber]

12 hours ago, drscorpio said:

It continually astounds me that we are almost a decade into PrEP being available in the USA, and I regularly still have to explain it to some clueless hookup.

It still astounds me that we are almost a decade into PrEP being available and I have to explain it to so many medical professionals. 😞

[ErosWired]

12 hours ago, BlackDude said:

I get it with younger guys. But at 60?

The younger ones may be clueless, but the older ones are working off ideas and beliefs that solidified in their heads a decade or two ago. PrEP is a harder sell to someone who lived through the Dark Years of AIDS - it’s hard to just shake off that sense of danger and dread built up from watching people die that the present generation doesn’t have to contend with. Yes, the worst has passed, but its ghost still haunts the survivors.

Year before last, an older gentleman found me slutting myself in my room at the bathhouse in Indianapolis, and was very interested in making use of me - right up until the moment I explained that I was Undetectable. He backed off. No, he wasn’t willing to do anything with someone infected with HIV. I explained about my status, my testing regimen, what Undetectable meant, and complimented him on being vigilant about his own sexual health, before he left.

A couple of months later when I was back in town for another trip, I was taking cock in my hotel room the night before I would be spending the day at the bathhouse, and who should walk in my open door but the very same older man. He told me that he had felt badly about rejecting me that way, and had studied up on HIV to understand his risk better. Now, he wanted to fuck me to show me that he didn’t think I was someone who had to be refused. And he fucked me exceedingly well.

It is possible to change people’s minds, at any age, with information. Every time I host, somewhere on a table or surface near me, I place four small stacks of half-sheet flyers I made: One about PrEP, one about STD risk, one about the meaning of Undetectable, and one about popper use. (Part of my trade is publication design.) Hardly anyone ever looks at them, let alone takes one with him. But there aren’t as many of them in the stacks now as there were to start with, and that means that somewhere out there, a few guys are a little wiser.

[BootmanLA]

21 hours ago, BlackDude said:

Like I said, I get condom use. I just started BB in the last few years. I’m just saying, don’t act all high and mighty. 

Which is why I said there's no excuse for being rude about it.

My point is that your original post seemed as much to be condemning him for not accepting PrEP usage by a man topping him as an adequate substitute for a condom, as it is condemning him for his "high and mighty" attitude. The latter is defensible on your part; the former (to the extent it's there) is not.

[BlackDude]

12 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Which is why I said there's no excuse for being rude about it.

My point is that your original post seemed as much to be condemning him for not accepting PrEP usage by a man topping him as an adequate substitute for a condom, as it is condemning him for his "high and mighty" attitude. The latter is defensible on your part; the former (to the extent it's there) is not.

I think condemn is to strong of a word, since I don’t disapprove of anything he does, just trying to understand. As a matter of fact, I think I handled it very well giving the level of disrespect. I had a family member who lived in San Francisco in the early 90s and died very quickly of the aids virus. I was determined that that would not be my fate, and it took me years to decide to bareback, but I was never rude or judge mental towards those who wanted to live their life.

 

I think I can tell you have most men would respond to a message from a 60-year-old guy who is not willing to pay and it wasn’t how I responded. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by BlackDude

[tallslenderguy]

Many make health decisions based on emotion, not evidence. Many do not even understand what scientific  study evidence is or how to discern what constitutes a good study.

60 isn't exactly deaths door, if i was neg, i'd still be on PreP. But then, i am also Covid vaccinated and get a flu shot every year too. All these meds protect more than the person taking them, and sadly, this guy was ignorant.  He was bragging about being HIV neg, not STI free, so he was obviously ignorant about PreP. 

i'm poz, on meds, undetectable. i get STI tested routinely when tracking my HIV status. i'm much less of a risk for STI's or HIV now than in was prior to being poz because i get tested a lot more often and am much more aware of my STI status.

The vast majority of people in Western culture die or have chronic disease from what they put in their mouth (i.e., the 'food' they eat), not from what they put in their ass.

The truth is, there is more risk from eating pizza than from taking cum.

[blackrobe]

1 hour ago, tallslenderguy said:

The truth is, there is more risk from eating pizza than from taking cum.

I am so going to quote you on that.

[tallslenderguy]

1 hour ago, blackrobe said:

I am so going to quote you on that.

lol, perspective, eh?  HIV is not even in the top 10 causes of death.  In many cultures there is stigma attached to eating cock, but very little, if any, stigma attached to eating the stuff that is the number one cause of death.  There is a lot of cultural conditioning against sex, but the primary cause of death (i.e., eating unhealthy 'food') is promoted fairly universally. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by tallslenderguy

[tallslenderguy]

On 3/30/2021 at 8:25 PM, ErosWired said:

It is possible to change people’s minds, at any age, with information. Every time I host, somewhere on a table or surface near me, I place four small stacks of half-sheet flyers I made: One about PrEP, one about STD risk, one about the meaning of Undetectable, and one about popper use. (Part of my trade is publication design.) Hardly anyone ever looks at them, let alone takes one with him. But there aren’t as many of them in the stacks now as there were to start with, and that means that somewhere out there, a few guys are a little wiser.

i love that you do this. Thank you.

[BootmanLA]

20 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

lol, perspective, eh?  HIV is not even in the top 10 causes of death.  In many cultures there is stigma attached to eating cock, but very little, if any, stigma attached to eating the stuff that is the number one cause of death.  There is a lot of cultural conditioning against sex, but the primary cause of death (i.e., eating unhealthy 'food') is promoted fairly universally. 

To be fair, though: I don't think you can quite compare the two. Once you have HIV, unless you're one of the very few nonprogressor unicorns out there, you're stuck with expensive treatment, every day, for the rest of your life in order to stay alive. Drop the treatment, and you can pretty much guarantee an early death. For someone who converts at, say, age 22, that's decades of life that would (theoretically) be gone.

By contrast, disease from a bad diet is much more gradual, and it's something that can be managed considerably less expensively than HAART. And it's possible to reverse even years and years of bad eating habits and repair some of the damage done to your body by a bad diet; that's not an option with HIV.

Not saying one or the other is worse - in fact, my point is that you simply can't compare them. It's not even apple and orange; it's more like cloud and rock - so different that comparisons fail.

[tallslenderguy]

30 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

To be fair, though: I don't think you can quite compare the two. Once you have HIV, unless you're one of the very few nonprogressor unicorns out there, you're stuck with expensive treatment, every day, for the rest of your life in order to stay alive. Drop the treatment, and you can pretty much guarantee an early death. For someone who converts at, say, age 22, that's decades of life that would (theoretically) be gone.

By contrast, disease from a bad diet is much more gradual, and it's something that can be managed considerably less expensively than HAART. And it's possible to reverse even years and years of bad eating habits and repair some of the damage done to your body by a bad diet; that's not an option with HIV.

Not saying one or the other is worse - in fact, my point is that you simply can't compare them. It's not even apple and orange; it's more like cloud and rock - so different that comparisons fail.

Ha, no not an apples with apples comparison (or meant to be), of course there are significant differences between eating cock and pizza.  Though, since you mention things like cost and longevity, ongoing dependence on meds/intervention.  Kidney failure is number 10 on the WHO list of top 10 diseases that cause death. It's largely a preventable vascular disease related to diet. Without diealysis, a person with kidney failure will die, it's not reversible either. Cost is about $72,000 a year (not counting the meds that often accompany renal failure), which is substantially more than HAART, two to three times more expensive. 

[BootmanLA]

2 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

Ha, no not an apples with apples comparison (or meant to be), of course there are significant differences between eating cock and pizza.  Though, since you mention things like cost and longevity, ongoing dependence on meds/intervention.  Kidney failure is number 10 on the WHO list of top 10 diseases that cause death. It's largely a preventable vascular disease related to diet. Without diealysis, a person with kidney failure will die, it's not reversible either. Cost is about $72,000 a year (not counting the meds that often accompany renal failure), which is substantially more than HAART, two to three times more expensive. 

Valid point, although even with kidney disease there's some qualification. The big driver among diet-related kidney disease is Type II diabetes (which can often be controlled by pretty inexpensive medications even if your diet remains *somewhat* crappy) and high blood pressure (which, ditto). Doesn't mean changing your diet isn't a good idea - it is - but if you diagnose someone with diabetes or high blood pressure early on, you have other inexpensive treatment options that can counteract them and avert kidney damage.

And I think that's what makes the big difference between HIV infection and most other chronic health conditions: the latter almost always develop over an extended period of time and there are reasonably cheap ways to deal with them. The former is the result of a specific infection at a specific time, and as soon as it takes hold, you're locked in for life.

How we choose to live with them, of course, is another story. 

[tallslenderguy]

20 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Valid point, although even with kidney disease there's some qualification. The big driver among diet-related kidney disease is Type II diabetes (which can often be controlled by pretty inexpensive medications even if your diet remains *somewhat* crappy) and high blood pressure (which, ditto). Doesn't mean changing your diet isn't a good idea - it is - but if you diagnose someone with diabetes or high blood pressure early on, you have other inexpensive treatment options that can counteract them and avert kidney damage.

And I think that's what makes the big difference between HIV infection and most other chronic health conditions: the latter almost always develop over an extended period of time and there are reasonably cheap ways to deal with them. The former is the result of a specific infection at a specific time, and as soon as it takes hold, you're locked in for life.

How we choose to live with them, of course, is another story. 

Agreed, diet related disease does develop over a long period of time vs once infected by HIV, there's no reversal. On the other hand, that's a double edged sword. i probably had sex with >1000 guys before i contracted HIV.  I.e., before being infected with HIV one is not adding to or building a chronic condition. 

Then there's the question about quality of life. Many would rather suffer the consequences of an unhealthy diet for the pleasure derived from what they eat, which has some comparisons to sex to me. Risk vs benefit and perceived quality of life. 

Then there's cost vs what is charged to factor into the equation:

"A new gold-standard triple therapy for H.I.V. has just made its debut in Africa. It costs $75 a year. In the United States, many people with H.I.V. take an almost identical therapy. It costs $39,000 a year.

The United States is infamous for its high cost of health care — and H.I.V. medicines are a big part of that. Plenty of drugs carry outrageous prices: EpiPens, insulin, cancer treatments, even some antibiotics. But no class of medicines is more scandalously expensive than for H.I.V. These medicines are by far the largest item in Medicaid’s drug budget, the third largest for the insurance exchanges and the fifth largest for commercial insurers."

[think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/18/opinion/pricing-hiv-drugs-america.html

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by tallslenderguy

[Guest]

On 3/30/2021 at 8:30 AM, BlackDude said:

So this guy hits me up in A4A and he’s 60. Ok shape still, no problem, I tell him I’m looking to breed. Then he responds something like “I always play safe, that’s why I’m negative and 60!”

I respond something like “I’m neg too, always played safe, now on prep.”

He responds “no thanks, not looking to take a load from a guy on Prep! Sorry!”

So I said “no problem, enjoy being neg. I am, and will continue to be on prep!” Then he sends me some wise ass answer back. I blocked him.

My point is dude your 60! And still bragging about being negative, and missing out of fucking for what? What are you waiting for?! Then you’ll be 65, then 70, then 75 still talking about “yeah I’m still neg!”. Ok, what did you win? 
 

This isn’t even really about Prep I guess, but at some point don’t u just let loose and enjoy life? I’m all for safe play, hell I still use condoms sometimes if it makes the dude comfortable. Just say “safe only” and leave it a that. 

 

Sorry, rant over!

They guys was an idiot.

You can be proud of yourself, bro. Respect.