Scared - Extreme anxiety

[Kinkybreed]

1 hour ago, FreakedOut said:

Thank you very much for your message (or should I say Dankeschön, since I'm in Germany too). Just to clarify: I did not use condoms this last time. And the added PEP were 2 Issentress pills ADDED to the PrEP i was already taking. I didn't double up on the PrEP. I took - and still take - 7 a week.

I keep obssesively looking back into what I did and finding additional reasons to worry. But I am trying to let go and trust my initial decision that I should trust PrEP to keep me safe. I have an anxious condition that sometimes goes away with talking and exchanging ideas.

My therapist said today I should come out to my father. Too much old-school Freudian repression there.

Hey, again, thank you very much for your support, mein Freund. I envy your attitude towards life and hope I can soon be at that point too.

(two messages to go for today, apparently. This one was really worth it 🙂 )

 

If it helps you: A bit over a week ago I also had a risky encounter. I was also super high and that wasn't completely my choice. I can't remember everything but I've been thinking about it and thinking about it and thinking about it. And the more I thought about the more sketchy things appeared to be. I was and sometimes still am anxious as fuck about that. I was and sometimes still am pissed as fuck about myself that I've driven myself into this situation. After all, I was not on prep, since it was basically my first sexual encounter during this pandemic. I wasn't really able to go and get PEP after that. But whenever I feel the memory and anxiety rise in me, I try to remember the fact, that I can't change it. I can spend my time constantly worrying about it or I can try to minimize my worries until I can get tested and can learn from that experience. So yes, trust me, I do understand the anxiety. It can be paralyzing and can lead to all sorts of stupid behaviour. But when things like that happen, it opens another chapter. Takes time to get used to it for sure. But it shouldn't be the end of the world and although it is hard, I do not think that it's worth it to torture yourself with self-hate, self-pity, whatever you might call it. And your therapist is right. Coming out to your father is a big step in the right direction. Once you got rid off one reason to hide, the other one's will follow time after time. Enjoy yourself, love yourself. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, FreakedOut said:

@Alphpig  : I do not intend to convert. The question here is if PrEP counts as "unsafe", which probably many would say it is not.

@verslut: thanks for your answer.

To anyone: does breeding have to be risky? I know some people here get off on risk, but that is not what appeals to me about breeding or "natural sex". That is the reason I have never done it before PrEP.

In general, yes I regret having taken drugs. They fuck up my judgement. Luckily, going on PrEP was a decision taken months before I even tried any drugs and the drugs did not prevent me from taking it further.

@BareLover666:   I tried to reply yesterday but I was out of messages. Apparently there is a limit on new members. I thank you for the reassurance. As I said, many people view PrEP as the "new safe". I myself am caught a bit in the generational mindset change and cannot let go of the visuals of a guy  (later admitted HIV+) cumming condomless in my ass. That image fills me with guilt and anxiety. If I had been wearing a condom - supposedly less safe than PrEP - I do not know if I would be so anxious. Actually, I had sex before with HIV+ people with a condom. Btw, your public conversations about me (e.g., saying that I am in need of a well meant pat on the shoulder or cuddling) are also public to me 😉 Also, I think you asked me, I am on DAILY PrEP, not demand based, for the last two years.

@viking8x6: your message made me smile (something I was in dire need of). I also tried to answer, but due to message restrictions I could not.

@blackrobe: thanks for sharing your experience on PrEP. It helps. Why did you get a false positive?

@Close2MyBro: I am glad your scare turned out well. Thanks for the reassurance.

@Whiteguy1 thanks for your message.

   Uhm... I don't think I said anywhere you are in need of a cuddle or a pat on the back.
If you want those you can bloody well ask for them yourself. 🙃
   I did feel you needed not to be judged as you were doing one hell of a job yourself there.

Glad you sound more grounded, bro.

Winston Churchill allegedly once said:  "Perfection is the enemy of progress".
So don't try to be perfect.
 

[BootmanLA]

7 hours ago, Close2MyBro said:

I've always thought that when guys use the term 'breeding', it was meant as an intentional transmission of positive cum. The term "raw" typically denotes "natural, unprotected" sex.

FWIW, I don't think that's how most people define the term. It's borrowed from the field of animal husbandry, where "breeding" simply means injecting semen into the vagina of another animal. Horses are bred, cows are bred, pigs are bred, goats are bred, and none of them, to my knowledge, involve transmission of HIV.

In gay male terms, "breeding," then, means fucking raw and ejaculating inside the ass of the guy being fucked. Positive, negative, unknown, whatever - it's all breeding. If "breeding" meant "intentional transmission of positive cum" then 95% of the posts on this website would be off-topic for "Breeding" Zone - and there wouldn't be any forums on PrEP, etc.

What you're referring to is "pozzing", which is separate and apart from breeding. Pozzing can be deliberate or accidental.

There's a sub-category of pozzing, called stealthing, when the transmission of positive cum is done both deliberately and without informing the receiving partner.

[blackrobe]

11 hours ago, FreakedOut said:

 

@blackrobe: thanks for sharing your experience on PrEP. It helps. Why did you get a false positive?

False positives are *very* common with the fast blood tests. I think the number was 38% of all positives are false. 

[Guest]

On 7/26/2021 at 9:40 PM, BareLover666 said:

You are out of line. 

Edited July 29 by drscorpio
Abusive language removed.

Thank you so much for the edit @drscorpio,

[FreakedOut]

To give this thread some closure: I tested negative today. PrEP works. But I need to do something about the anxiety. Either I further adjust on the risk (apparently 0.37% chance of infection was too much for me) or I better calibrate my perception of reality. Not fucking on drugs will probably help.

Being bred is so hot. Getting HIV is not. I'll look for a better balance.

 

[canail]

On 7/26/2021 at 12:19 PM, FreakedOut said:

Thanks. I know I may be catastrophizing. I am 100% compliant of my regimen, and have finished the PEP course, which I started at 15 hours. As someone who is also on PrEP (so does your profile say, at least), have you tested its efficacy with guys you knew were HIV+?

It's the "waiting it out" that has me terribly anxious. But apparently, this is as fast as tests work, according to the Doc.

Thanks for your support, again.

I am not going to address the behavior, risks, drug regimen, effectiveness of it or what sexual actions you may wish to consider in the future.  None of my thoughts on these things are relevant to your situation, nor do I have any special crystal ball to be able to adequately comment.

What I do wish to address is the Anxiety.  First and foremost  anxiety is not always or even often rational, expecting it to be rational is not going to help.  Second it sounds like you reacted in a very rational manner and have done what the medical professionals you chose instructed/recommended/prescribed in order to minimize the risks of the encounter.    What more do you feel you could have or should have done?  I have had some treatment for anxiety in a situation that I found extremely difficult to deal with.  I sought help from a Doctor and had a short term anti-anxiety med prescribed that I absolutely hated.  It was in fact worse than the anxiety,  it made me just not care about anything.  I should add I rarely respond ideally to drugs.  after discussing the situation with the doctor again he suggested an antihistamine as they can reduce anxiety.  This was a good answer for me,  it simply took the edge off,  and allowed me to accept that the outcome was not within my control, and that what I was dreading was either going to happen,  or not going to happen,  and remain calm, or perhaps calmer about the situation. 

Perhaps in the future (as I see this was posted some time ago,)  if you are feeling unable to cope with anxiety,  you should discuss it with your doctor?  It may not change what is causing you the anxiety, but if you can cope better with it perhaps you will then be able to deal better with the situation causing the anxiety.   example,  Perhaps if you had help controlling the anxiety you could have done more or better research to reassure yourself of the effectiveness of the course of treatments that had been prescribed and have been easier in your mind with the risk involved?  

Good luck in the future dealing with the anxiety.

[FreakedOut]

1 hour ago, canail said:

I am not going to address the behavior, risks, drug regimen, effectiveness of it or what sexual actions you may wish to consider in the future.  None of my thoughts on these things are relevant to your situation, nor do I have any special crystal ball to be able to adequately comment.

What I do wish to address is the Anxiety.  First and foremost  anxiety is not always or even often rational, expecting it to be rational is not going to help.  Second it sounds like you reacted in a very rational manner and have done what the medical professionals you chose instructed/recommended/prescribed in order to minimize the risks of the encounter.    What more do you feel you could have or should have done?  I have had some treatment for anxiety in a situation that I found extremely difficult to deal with.  I sought help from a Doctor and had a short term anti-anxiety med prescribed that I absolutely hated.  It was in fact worse than the anxiety,  it made me just not care about anything.  I should add I rarely respond ideally to drugs.  after discussing the situation with the doctor again he suggested an antihistamine as they can reduce anxiety.  This was a good answer for me,  it simply took the edge off,  and allowed me to accept that the outcome was not within my control, and that what I was dreading was either going to happen,  or not going to happen,  and remain calm, or perhaps calmer about the situation. 

Perhaps in the future (as I see this was posted some time ago,)  if you are feeling unable to cope with anxiety,  you should discuss it with your doctor?  It may not change what is causing you the anxiety, but if you can cope better with it perhaps you will then be able to deal better with the situation causing the anxiety.   example,  Perhaps if you had help controlling the anxiety you could have done more or better research to reassure yourself of the effectiveness of the course of treatments that had been prescribed and have been easier in your mind with the risk involved?  

Good luck in the future dealing with the anxiety.

Quote

Second it sounds like you reacted in a very rational manner and have done what the medical professionals you chose instructed/recommended/prescribed in order to minimize the risks of the encounter.    What more do you feel you could have or should have done? 

Well, yes and no. One of my big regrets of that night is having been so wasted by recreational drugs intake (nothing injectable, thank heavens). That clouded my judgment and made me err on the side of risk. Luckily, PrEP was already in my system for a long time then, and I didn't even forget to take it when I came home. So first thing I could have done: not fuck on drugs. I really didn'tneed them, but this guy was so much into it I had a hard time saying no (who was I to judge, I was smoking weed when I met him)

I took antidepressants for a long time, and they did not help much. Anxiety medication, like you said, at best numbs you. But no pill is going to do the work for you.

As I think I said before, I am in a kind of psychological therapy. It's old-school hard core Freudian and not helping much. We have had maybe 12 sessions already. In my first one I forecasted that although I seemed calm, I could at any moment fall prey of health anxiety. He wasn't paying attention. Then lighting struck and this problem arised. I BEGGED him to leave Freud aside and do some counseling to help me cope, but no, the guy stuck to his guns and kept theorising about my childhood. And then he metioned we needed to request something to the insurance. I was enraged at his negligence. I will most definitly fire him and look for a more "hands-on" kind of therapy.

If anything, this process has educated me on HIV prevention and I also came out as bisexual to my brother. My father may come next. It was painful and I hope this didn't need to happen. We will see. Thanks for your kind words.

 

 

 

 

[canail]

29 minutes ago, FreakedOut said:

Well, yes and no. One of my big regrets of that night is having been so wasted by recreational drugs intake (nothing injectable, thank heavens). That clouded my judgment and made me err on the side of risk. Luckily, PrEP was already in my system for a long time then, and I didn't even forget to take it when I came home. So first thing I could have done: not fuck on drugs. I really didn'tneed them, but this guy was so much into it I had a hard time saying no (who was I to judge, I was smoking weed when I met him)

 

 

 

I meant after the fact,  seeking medical aide etc.  The actual event is something I purposefully was not addressing in any form.

[FreakedOut]

6 minutes ago, canail said:

I meant after the fact,  seeking medical aide etc.  The actual event is something I purposefully was not addressing in any form.

Oh sure, I am a disciplined health-anxious. Doc says jump, I jump. And I had a previous HIV scare to learn from, where I had received PEP barely before the 72 hours limit, which had my German doctor nervously swinging his head with resignation.

[PigBoyDallas]

You did all the right things with both PEP and PREP and you’re going to be OK. Something like this is terrifying and nerve wracking so it’s OK to have a freak out. Be glad we have these meds and that you can afford them. More importantly you had the presence of mind to tackle this head on. Too many guys wouldn’t have been so smart about it and would wind up poz instead.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, canail said:

I meant after the fact,  seeking medical aide etc.  The actual event is something I purposefully was not addressing in any form.

 

Totally agree @canail.

 

Like I said earlier: Rationally and objectively you did the best thing you could do @FreakedOut.
And you are not - nor will you be - the last man to do something they regret after getting drunk or having taken some kind of drugs. Boys will be boys... So welcome to the human race my friend.

Actually I didn't read anything anxious in how you reacted nor in your actions. In fact you took responsibility for your own actions. Sounds more like you're growing up into an adult than anything else.

Perhaps that hardcore old-school Freudian therapist of yours is helping you, and you don't even realise it yourself.
And if not you're doing it all on your own. Perhaps you could tell him how disappointed you are in him or her, and why, though.
And if you're feeling uneasy about talking about your childhood to that therapist, perhaps that is exactly what you should be doing. 

I deeply feel in the US especially but with us in Europe more and more as well, we tend to look for answers to life questions in pills. Personally I do not believe in quick fixes.
And if anyone suggests medication, that person should be a doctor of medicine, after you tell him or her your symptoms and in what situation you experienced them, in person and in the context of a medica consultation.

This is NOT a medical website and any suggestions about anti-anxiety medications e.g. should be taken with a truckload of salt.
And actually in a lot of situations some amount of negative feelings like depression or anxiety are normal and a part of life.

 

Only if you experience them for no apparent logical reason it might be a medical condition, or should be investigated further.

 

Perhaps what you are being confronted with @FreakedOut is that in this world nobody - not your brother, not your therapist and not society as a whole - is interested in who you have sex with. None of them gives a rat's ass behind (sorry @drscorpio, please don't ban me from posting and messaging again... 😈) about you being afraid of getting HIV because for whatever reason you schose to start barebacking.

So what you could do is:
- Being bisexual not fuck with dudes. Or chose to not fuck at all;
- Use condoms when you do. These give a good protection against HIV, and a decent (but not 100 % by a long shot) protection against other STD's;
- Use PrEP as an extra (and almost full-proof) protection against HIV. Be it it will not protect you from other STD's at all.

Some people only have sex with one person and if you are absolutely sure about that one monogamous sexual partner will not have sex with anyone else, you will be safe. But you can never be certain of that fact and that would place your own responsibly for you own health on your partner. And it's yours, not theirs.

And furthermore you've already come to your own conclusion that you don't want to use drugs around dating.
As when people are drunk they also 'forget' to use condoms, you might want to realise that you should not drink alcohol then either. Actually alcohol - in a medical viewpoint - is considered one of the toughest hard-drugs as well, ranking right up there somewhere around cocaine.

 

Personally I don't believe ANYONE (no man or woman nor whatever gender-identity one feels happy with) in this whole wide world succeeds in doing these things all of the time.... But I wish you luck.

Perhaps you will be the first 'man on Mars' so to speak.

On a personal note I'm fucking jealous of you living in Germany, like gay and bisexual men living in the UK, the US and Belgium, because where you live (as far as I know) PrEP is covered by the medical plans/insurance.

So you should be safe against acquiring HIV (which can progress to AIDS) and it doesn't cost you one dime.

 

So @FreakedOut knowing all of this, have you any idea why you where so terribly afraid about getting HIV?

It's manageable these days, and in Germany like the rest of Europe the medication will be paid for. So you will not get AIDS if you find out and get the medical help that is available to you.

 

Sorry if I ranted a bit.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, FreakedOut said:

Well, yes and no. One of my big regrets of that night is having been so wasted by recreational drugs intake (nothing injectable, thank heavens). That clouded my judgment and made me err on the side of risk. Luckily, PrEP was already in my system for a long time then, and I didn't even forget to take it when I came home. So first thing I could have done: not fuck on drugs. I really didn'tneed them, but this guy was so much into it I had a hard time saying no (who was I to judge, I was smoking weed when I met him)

I took antidepressants for a long time, and they did not help much. Anxiety medication, like you said, at best numbs you. But no pill is going to do the work for you.

As I think I said before, I am in a kind of psychological therapy. It's old-school hard core Freudian and not helping much. We have had maybe 12 sessions already. In my first one I forecasted that although I seemed calm, I could at any moment fall prey of health anxiety. He wasn't paying attention. Then lighting struck and this problem arised. I BEGGED him to leave Freud aside and do some counseling to help me cope, but no, the guy stuck to his guns and kept theorising about my childhood. And then he metioned we needed to request something to the insurance. I was enraged at his negligence. I will most definitly fire him and look for a more "hands-on" kind of therapy.

If anything, this process has educated me on HIV prevention and I also came out as bisexual to my brother. My father may come next. It was painful and I hope this didn't need to happen. We will see. Thanks for your kind words.

 

 

 

 

Congratulations on not getting infected with HIV.

But chances of that where almost null and we already knew this.

 

How did you brother react to you being bisexual?

 

And I don't remember if me or anyone else asked this but what drugs did you use exactly and how did you enjoy getting fucked bareback and / or fucking your date without a condom?

 

I hope you had fun at least..
😈

Edited August 13, 2021 by Guest

[Bruce999]

PrEP is a condom as if you take it every day you are protected from HIV. Just go out and enjoy raw BB sex 

[ErosWired]

@FreakedOut - I would encourage you to look for an alternative to your old-school Freudian therapist. Such techniques may have some usefulness (debatable) in sorting out past trauma, but what you’re looking for are ways to build up mental skills to combat the flashes of anxiety you feel. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is very commonly the standard approach to such cases in the contemporary mental health therapy field, and you should be able to find a therapist who employs it with no trouble, if your current one will not. But you can also do work with it on your own - there are a number of books and websites available on how to start doing your own work with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy,

Important Note: Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is sometimes referred to by its acronym, CBT. Do not confuse this with the other CBT when finding someone to work with you. Cock and Ball Torture is likely to increase anxiety. Unless you’re into that. I’ve had so much of both CBTs that I can advise equally.

To the matter at hand ongoing, remember that taking a load bare from a Poz Top is by no means a guaranteed ticket to HIV infection. In general, your odds of an actual infection, if not on PrEP, are 1 in 72 (for Tops fucking a Poz bottom, your odds are 1 in 909). Every tenfold increase in the viral load increases the chance of infection by about threefold. If you have an STD that compromises your skin’s barrier (i.e., an open sore) your risk more than doubles. But still. Even if you had never taken a single pill of PrEP, you probably only had less than a 2% chance of getting HIV.

But you were taking PrEP, so that changes the math. How effective your PrEP is going to be in protecting you is going to depend on how regularly you take it. PrEP is not a “magic bullet” type of pill that takes full effect and provides full benefit after you swallow one pill. You can’t use it situationally like Viagra. You have to use it to build and then maintain a level of chemical defense in your body against potential infection, and building that line takes time.

The good news is that it works. For men taking PrEP daily or regularly (at least 4x per week) risk of acquiring HIV is reduced by 99%. For those not keeping up with their regimen, if they took it “recently” (that is, some of the PrEP still remains from their last dose in their blood plasma) the risk is still reduced by about 89%. That’s better than the averaged general overall prevention rate for condoms (about 80%).

So your chances of actually getting HIV from this encounter were tiny to begin with, and then you saw a doctor about it. So you’re going to be fine. Moving forward, then, how do you get to the point where you fuck without fear?

Here’s how.

1. You educate yourself. You go online and search out all the information you can find about HIV, how it’s transmitted, and how it’s prevented. Find out for yourself what the statistics and the studies have shown. Fear feeds on the unknown.

2. Learn about the mechanics of sex. Study about the parts of the body involved and how they function and relate, and what can go wrong with them.

3. Don’t use any substance (chem) unless you’ve done your homework on it first. Know what it is as a chemical, know what it’s going to do in your body and how it’s going to do it. Know the potential harm it can cause you, the likelihood it will do that harm, and whether it will likely put you at risk from other harms by impairing you mentally or physically.

4. Take your PrEP at least 4 times a week, without fail. Make it an unbreakable habit. Do it until it becomes as automatic as taking a leak when you get out of bed in the morning. You can do it. Since I started taking ART on September 25, 2014, up til today, I have missed exactly one dose.

When you arm yourself with knowledge, you make confident decisions. When you plan for your defense and go through with the plan, it leaves you confident that you’re ready. The antidote to Anxiety is Confidence.

Fuck well.