How can We Blame Trump for Putin Invading Ukraine?

[Coldfusion]

Even though Putin didnt invade even so much as an ice-cream stand when Trump was in the Oval Office

 

But he invaded other places during both Biden and Obama's presidencies

Can we pitch in with idea about how Trump secretly helped Putin even though he hasnt been in the White House for well over a year now. LOL

(Or, alternatively, he invaded Russia if you believe Joe Biden)

 

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Coldfusion

[BootmanLA]

Complex thoughts require complex understanding, which not all posters here seem to be capable of.

In a nutshell: Putin's long game is (a) restoration of the USSR/Russian Empire as a geopolitical force, and (b) defeat or disbanding of NATO, the primary threat to his expansionist plans.

As long as Trump was in office, attacking NATO and threatening to withdraw, he was useful to Putin in goal (b). We now know from more of Trump's former circle of advisers that he had been quite candid about pulling the US out of NATO during his second term, if he'd won one (which he mercifully did not). That disruptive influence in the west was far more valuable to Putin's grand schemes than any territorial gain might be. This is an old concept known as the "useful idiot", one with which you may not be familiar (or at least not in the way one might think).

Once Trump was defeated, and someone firmly committed to NATO was elected to replace him, the calculus shifted. Putin had to decide whether he could spread enough disinformation about Ukraine to get away with invading and seizing power (as he had done in Crimea, and to lesser extents in Georgia and other former Soviet republics). One good thing about Biden (among many) is that he knows that US intelligence, while not always perfect, is some of the best in the world. Because they had intercepted much of Putin's plans for false flag operations, etc. as a means of making Ukraine to be the aggressor, and Biden smartly chose to release enough of that intelligence that the world could see Putin's game plan for what it was: naked aggression. And as a result, the west is united against Russia in a way that would never have been possible without someone like Biden - who actually READS his intelligence briefings and more importantly, understands them - in charge.

[ErosWired]

One could make the argument that it was a Russian invasion of the United States - inserting itself as it did into our electoral process through attempts to manipulate the voting public - that installed Trump to begin with. The fact that Trump hopped around Putin like an organ-grinder’s monkey at every opportunity is ample evidence that Russia could consider that “mission accomplished”.

[Guest]

that is because Putin was fuckkng Trump .... Putin nasty wild gay man in closeT

[Guest]

We don't.

Slow Joe dropped the ball on this one.

Joe gets all of his and Hunter's money from the Ukraine.He should have seen this coming.

[hntnhole]

On 3/21/2022 at 12:41 AM, Coldfusion said:

Even though Putin didnt invade even so much as an ice-cream stand when Trump was in the Oval Office

I notice that you're in the UK.  Perhaps you could familiarize yourself with your nation's recent (less than a century's worth) history - noting too difficult  - zeroing in on 1938, when the PM of your nation was similarly mind-fucked into peddling "Peace in our Time" stupidity, completely used by a dictator with delusions of grandeur.  Your own nation paid the price, mostly on it's east coast, for trusting in a vapid, myopic, dull and foolish leader then, just as we have come close to today, and may yet reap the whirlwind of a breathtakingly stupid phony "leader" in the US.  

Since there was no 45th "President" of the United States - only a con-man with the cleverness of any circus-barker - installed in that Office, no wonder the dictator of Russia thought that he could attempt to restore the faded, tattered "glory" of the USSR.  

You have received valid and useful information from an intellectually capable and honest member of this site above, namely Mr. BootmanLA.  Please consider it carefully, and do what you can to emulate his careful scrutiny of facts.    

Thank you.

[hntnhole]

13 hours ago, ErosWired said:

Trump hopped around Putin like an organ-grinder’s monkey

yuk ..... the mental imagery ^ summons forth is downright hideous, and a direct insult to monkeys belonging to organ grinders. 

[ErosWired]

1 hour ago, hntnhole said:

yuk ..... the mental imagery ^ summons forth is downright hideous, and a direct insult to monkeys belonging to organ grinders. 

Well, I was actually thinking in terms of a golden marmoset. They’re sort of the right orangeish color, and their hands are very small.

[evilqueerpig]

Meanwhile, it's the Right that's supporting Putin....Fucker Carlson, Hannity, MTG, Cawthorn.  Lest we forget the OM's call, basically trying to blackmail Zelinskyy.

[Guest]

I'm German, born and raised.  Temp in the US from time to time.  I watch news from AU sky news.  Why is the USA always at war with itself with politics?  Why is one side always passing blame on the other who's not even in office.  Why do the current leaders in the US all sound like they are drunk?  Been in many courtrooms during trials, guilty people are passing the blame so no one thinks they did it.  Why did the new leader cut production of oil in the US?  It was lower for all of us around the world as we paid the USA money for it.  It forced us to get it from Russia who jacked up the price.  Good to see his yacht was impounded, least he got what was coming to him.  The US place the race war that's been going on for well over 60 years, hitler did that with jews.  At my school we had to learn not only German history but that of the US as well.  I come from a blended family.  When power is taken over of all humans, the leaders still will want more even though no more can be gotten.  The highest feeling is pleasure.  Anyone know something higher than that?  Isn't Peace & happiness better than anger?

[lambie59]

Just to give a history lesson about 'Peace in our time' 

Winston Churchill praised the Statesmanship of Prime Minister Mr Chamberlain in 1938 as the 'Munich Accord' 

gave the UK extra time to rearm. 

[BootmanLA]

1 hour ago, NatureBoy said:

I'm German, born and raised.  Temp in the US from time to time.  I watch news from AU sky news.  Why is the USA always at war with itself with politics?  Why is one side always passing blame on the other who's not even in office.  Why do the current leaders in the US all sound like they are drunk?  Been in many courtrooms during trials, guilty people are passing the blame so no one thinks they did it.  Why did the new leader cut production of oil in the US?  It was lower for all of us around the world as we paid the USA money for it.  It forced us to get it from Russia who jacked up the price.  Good to see his yacht was impounded, least he got what was coming to him.  The US place the race war that's been going on for well over 60 years, hitler did that with jews.  At my school we had to learn not only German history but that of the US as well.  I come from a blended family.  When power is taken over of all humans, the leaders still will want more even though no more can be gotten.  The highest feeling is pleasure.  Anyone know something higher than that?  Isn't Peace & happiness better than anger?

One difference between Germany and the US, in terms of political systems, is that we have a two-party system and you have a multi-party one. Under our system, one party or the other has the majority, and thus anyone not in one's own party is "the other side", especially as issues have become more contentious and there's almost no agreement between the parties any more. That situation has been developing for a long time but it was especially exacerbated by former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (who disdained compromise) and by Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell (who long ago decided winning for his side was the only thing making life worthwhile). Other Republican leaders have also contributed to this mindset. When you view everyone else as "the enemy" it's not hard for things to feel like war.

In multi-party systems like Germany (and most other European countries), the name of the game is coalition-building. More than one party has to come together to choose an overall leader, and those alliances shift over time and on particular issues. At any given point, someone from an opposition party may be an ally where they were an opponent last week. And since the coalitions are not homogenous, there's less ideological rigidity to them.

To correct something you said: the "new leader" (I assume you mean Biden) did not cut production of oil in the US. Oil production slumped during the covid pandemic, both because energy demand plummeted (tens of millions of people not driving to work, tens of millions of people's workplaces not needing to be heated or cooled for months on end). While the *opportunity* to drill for new oil in certain places was restricted, that didn't affect ongoing production - when a tract of federal land is leased for oil exploration, it's usually close to a decade before any production occurs on that tract. In actuality, aside from the reduction due to the pandemic, US oil production has been rising for years and continues to do so.

Germany was not "forced" to get oil or gas from Russia, but being much closer, and connected with pipelines, it was cheaper to do so (to get oil or gas from the US to Germany requires tanker ships, which is a lot more costly than a pipeline). I don't blame Germany for wanting the nearest, cheaper source, but don't put the blame for that decision on the US.

[Guest]

No need to slam Germany here, We have our own issues like all big countries.  Thought this was about the obsession with Trump?  Wasn't this about passing blame on to Trump?  Looks like the US is going through the same issues from the Jimmy Carter days.  He tanked the world with his shenanigans too.  Might as well blame Trump for Jimmy Carter too.  Biden's first day in office tanked the world economy with oil and inflation.  First thing he signed, it was all over the news.  Carter parked oil ships off the coast and lied about shortage.  Just think he was all about jacking up inflation and screwing the USA also.  So the deal that China is working with the Saudi.  China wants to buy oil from Saudi with China currency not US currency, is the USA going to pass blame on Trump again when it sends the USA into the deepest poor house ever in 100 years?  Since he's the #1 escape goat?  Is that all the US can do?  Other business persons countries think the US has lost their minds.  So why do your leaders sound like they are intoxicated all the time while talking?  Maybe they are dabbling in all the same drugs they are passing around to all their homeless.  Higher taxes, to pay the rich, to pay the homeless unemployment.  Many states like California has a catch and let go policy.  Let them try that in other countries. Criminals don't pay taxes, they keep breaking laws as the revolving doors keep moving in circles like your politics.  Doesn't fly in many countries I have homes.  Do crime do the time. 

[beanna]

Food for Thought

And think very carefully before any response

There is a very old Russian proverb and Pre Soviet,that goes something like this

"When inviting the Bear upon the dance floor,be very very carefull, because it is ALWAYS the Bear that decides when and how the dance shall end "

[hntnhole]

16 hours ago, NatureBoy said:

Why is the USA always at war with itself with politics?

Thank you for the question, NatureBoy.  

Germany is an ancient, (if only relatively recently officially) nation, somewhere around the same age (of nationhood) as the US.  However, there is a marked difference between our countries.  As the various principalities became united into one nation in the 19th Century, there were basically similar people, similar beliefs, values, cultural associations that became united under Prussian (Bismarck) leadership.  Thus, your nation was born of a collection of similar, like-minded people.

Here in the US, that is hardly the case.  The North American Continent was invaded by Caucasians, mostly from Europe.  From before our revolution against the British, the "colonies" were founded on a grave error, namely the foul institution of enslaving other human beings for the purpose of pecuniary gain.  The result has been - from the very beginning - a belief in many Americans that Caucasians are better in every way than any other racial group of human beings.  This belief in the depravity of "White Privilege" was displayed only yesterday on television coverage of a nominee to our Supreme Court.  The performances of a few Senators in the hearing, just yesterday, is a shame to anyone holding one shred of decency in their hearts and minds.  Yet, this depravity has soaked into the very dirt beneath our feet.  It led to the wholesale slaughter of the indigenous people who had lived on the Continent for millennia. It led to the importation of human beings for the purpose of enslaving a race of people who didn't appear Caucasian, so as to easily keep them separate from pale people.

Since our system of government is a two-party system, unlike many other nations with numerous political parties, there has always been a struggle for power in the US between the Liberals and Conservatives, as in elsewhere in the world.  Unlike other nations, however, this translates to a smaller group of citizens rabidly attempting to hold on to their perceived, God-Given power, defined as "conservatives", but consumed by the filth of White Privilege, and another, larger, more fractious, more diverse group of citizens demanding their rights and privileges, and - to this day - not receiving Justice.  

Thus, the battle to make the United States of America more just, more inclusive, allowing anyone and everyone to reach their potential, regardless of race, national origin, not merely a dream, but an actual fact.  Our "Great Seal" of the nation in inscribed "E Pluribus Unum" - meaning "out of many, one"  What was left off the words are "for Caucasian People". Our Pledge of Allegiance ends with the phrase "with Liberty and Justice for All" - but the words left out of the pledge are "for Caucasian People".  I could go on, but hopefully you understand the fatal flaw of the U.S.  Founded upon the depravity of White Privilege, which may well be the rock upon which our Nation founders. While your Nation was founded upon the rock of mutually agreed values, ours was not.  Racism, Caucasian/White Privilege has been the sand upon which our foundation was built, and may well be the cause of our decline into mediocrity.  While we do have technology, industrial power, military power, all of that, we do not have Justice in our nation.  

The battle you refer to is still ongoing, the struggle for Justice for all Americans is still ongoing, and frankly, I don't know how it will end.  The former president, hardly intelligent, but surely clever, pried up the rocks under which the racists had been living and let loose the tiger of simmering, ancient hatreds; he merely exploited for his own flawed ends that which has been the case for centuries in these Dis-United States.  

Thank you for the question; I hope I managed to offer you some small measure of understanding the problem.