Sick of undetec

[muscmtl]

I make it a point to tell the guys I'm going to fuck I am poz, and if I am lucky enuf to meet another poz they always answer undetectable.

makes me fukn crazy. just say your poz, fuck that undetectable shit

U=u  has corrupted the pozs

[PozTalkAuthor]

Sort of auto-stigma? Do you mean this? Maybe people are afraid of re-infection and this can be understood, I think; when/if asked, I specify I'm undetectable but don't make a matter of life or death about this. 

Unfortunately I think someone may be influenced by homophobic and serophobic culture, so they develop a sort of pre-judgments so if you respect rules you are respected, otherwise discriminated.

Making it short, I'm afraid many people think being detectable is something to be blamed for, I have learnt that other people's life and reasons, are NOT my business. Someone does not take meds for choice, some others have a resistance, why is not something I have to worry about. 

Also this jargon which is used here too. "dirty" rather than "clean" or even "toxic", we should start to treat people better. Words have their relevance. 

[onlyraw]

56 minutes ago, muscmtl said:

U=u  has corrupted the pozs

Muscmtl - I am not sure what you mean by this?

in my profiles I always identify as poz - and then mention I am undetectable 

And when I meet another poz guy I will normally say “poz here as well, undetectable”

while I know U=U means it is totally safe for me to fuck a neg guy raw, it is a lot easier (and sometimes more fun) to play with other poz guys

while I enjoy reading (and jerking off to) and even writing the pozing fiction on here - in real life I am not looking to infect anyone- nor am I looking to get a new strain that does not respond to medication 

[onlyraw]

28 minutes ago, PozTales said:

Also this jargon which is used here too. "dirty" rather than "clean" or even "toxic", we should start to treat people better. Words have their relevance. 

PozTales - here I also think it is a matter of where these terms are used

in real life they are certainly HIVphobic and hurtful- and show the ignorance of the person using them

But in one of the fictional stories on here, when used in the  right way - they can  help in making the story more erotic in a very piggy way

[PozTalkAuthor]

11 minutes ago, onlyraw said:

PozTales - here I also think it is a matter of where these terms are used

in real life they are certainly HIVphobic and hurtful- and show the ignorance of the person using them

But in one of the fictional stories on here, when used in the  right way - they can  help in making the story more erotic in a very piggy way

 

You got it! As a fiction writer I know what you're talking about; in my fictions I use terms because their purpose is to remark the character's role. 

And to make serophobic people suffer the same stigma they tend to give us. 

I use it as a sort of hierarchy. From the "empty box" to the "superior". 

[Ieatcumholes]

Poz doesn't indicate whether or not one is infectious. Undetectable does. Both terms are truth in advertising, although one gives a little more detail. Depending on the audience, one or the other term could be more relevant. I don't see a need to chose one term over the other or to vilify one term over the other.

[funpozbottom]

11 hours ago, muscmtl said:

I make it a point to tell the guys I'm going to fuck I am poz, and if I am lucky enuf to meet another poz they always answer undetectable.

makes me fukn crazy. just say your poz, fuck that undetectable shit

U=u  has corrupted the pozs

Have you ever known or heard about someone who has cancer but treatment put it in remission? Have you ever heard them talk about how happy they are to be in remission and cancer free for "X" number of years?   I view my infection that same way. I have HIV but my medication holds it in check. I don't care what you or anyone else thinks about the use of the word "undetectable" because it's got nothing to do with you -- it's about me and my challenges and progress in fighting my virus.  I'm undetectable and happy to say so.

[ErosWired]

11 hours ago, muscmtl said:

I make it a point to tell the guys I'm going to fuck I am poz, and if I am lucky enuf to meet another poz they always answer undetectable.

makes me fukn crazy. just say your poz, fuck that undetectable shit

U=u  has corrupted the pozs

Sir, your post content around the site makes it clear that you’re an advocate of HIV gifter/chaser culture. You make references to “poz loading” people. Given this, it’s pretty clear that what you mean by this post is that you’re sick of “Undetectable” because it’s interfering with the culture of spreading HIV.

Let me remind you that this is the General discussion area of the forum, not the bugchasing wasteland in the Backroom, and your gifter/chaser propaganda is misplaced here. I suggest you take it where you will find readers who will appreciate it.

Here, it reads as bullshit. You’re sick of our ability - at long, long fucking last - to know that the Enemy Virus in our bodies is not a goddamn death sentence? Have you been within an hour of death from your HIV? I have. I had a viral load of 85,000 that came that close to ending me, and now, after almost eight years as an AIDS survivor, I have fought - fought - my way back to some kind of health, and stayed durably Undetectable. Yes, sir, Undetectable. Not just so I can stay alive, but so I can make damn sure I’m never responsible for destroying someone else’s life and health for a fuck.

Your pusillanimous complaint is an insult to every AIDS survivor drawing breath.

[NWUSHorny]

55 minutes ago, funpozbottom said:

Have you ever known or heard about someone who has cancer but treatment put it in remission? Have you ever heard them talk about how happy they are to be in remission and cancer free for "X" number of years?   I view my infection that same way. I have HIV but my medication holds it in check. I don't care what you or anyone else thinks about the use of the word "undetectable" because it's got nothing to do with you -- it's about me and my challenges and progress in fighting my virus.  I'm undetectable and happy to say so.

As someone who found out I was HIV positive a day or 2 after finding out I had stage 4 cancer I couldn't agree with this more. I did not want either, and both are more than potentially life threatening. I have never had any desire to gift/infect anyone and won't even participate in indulging that fantasy. I'm now almost 4 years cancer free and over 4 years HIV undetectable.

[garsento]

Undetectable is useful information, for positive people and for the people who might have sex with them.

I really do not see how someone IDing as undetectable in one circumstance means that they cannot also identify as poz, to the extent that they might want to do either.

[PozTalkAuthor]

I feel this is becoming a FLAME, while it can be a useful discussion instead. 

I'm the first to say that you can fly high with FANTASY; as a story author I know it and I defend the freedom to have fantasies, live them, EMBRACE them, without judging ourselves or feeling guilty; but important thing is to be EDUCATED and know how to distinguish between fantasy and desire. 

I remind that in many countries there's still a very large stigma against us; I'm reading a long discussion -flame?- elsewhere about a guy who was not admitted to a reality show because he has HIV. And this year he came out, asking to participate again, and FINALLY the rule has changed. I personally don't like that kind of reality shows but I find very important that the concept of "undetectable untransmittable" begins to enter into "mainstream culture"'s doors. 

And let me say... my bf's mother loves to watch that sort of shows so I count on this, I think some day the discussion will come out and I'll come out as an undet poz too. The rest can go to hell when it wants. 

My sex fantasies then, they're other things; I live them in bed, but have also learnt to embrace them and allow them to flow out in my written stories -here and in other spaces- so if someone assumes I'm infecting other people, I have means to sue them and to defend myself from any issue. UEqualsU must become a basic concept. Then, if there are positive people who want to remain detectable and negative folks who accept -or search for- the risk in real life, well, it's not our business. 

Serophobic propaganda must end! If people continue not to test for the fear of stigma, HIV will continue to spread. It's too easy to accuse the rare cases of gifters/chasers when the biggest problem is under the ground. 

[ErosWired]

43 minutes ago, PozTales said:

I'm the first to say that you can fly high with FANTASY; as a story author I know it and I defend the freedom to have fantasies, live them, EMBRACE them, without judging ourselves or feeling guilty; but important thing is to be EDUCATED and know how to distinguish between fantasy and desire. 

Then let me ask you, as one writer to another: When you indulge a pozzing fantasy and glorify that fantasy in fiction, do you always include in that tale the educational component you say is so important? Or do you simply stoke the desire? Does your story, on balance, leave the reader more, or less, inclined to actually go out and become infected with a life-altering and potentially deadly disease? (It’s only the developed world that truly benefits from the miracle of ART and PrEP, but the internet is more global.)

Because if your writing fully embraces the fantasy, glorifies the disease, and fails to educate, you bear the weight of responsibility for the lives damaged by the influence of the power of your words. Don’t ever suggest that your stories are nothing more than harmless fantasy and that they couldn’t possibly influence anyone to make a bad decision.

You have the means to sue anyone who suspects you if infecting them and defend yourself from any issue - on the basis if the fact that you write these fantasies down as fiction? Good man, for a prosecutor, all you’re doing is providing evidence of intent and state of mind. What you claim is fiction, he’ll call autobiography. You might say, “Please. I’m a writer of fiction.” But the first rule of the successful writer is Write What You Know.

Serophobic propaganda must end, you say. I agree. But looking the other way while part of our community is cultivating a hothouse for the spread of the disease and saying, “that’s their choice, not our business” is not the way you end it. Of course it’s our business, every mother’s son of us. If we all knuckled down and seriously worked to eradicate this disease instead of some of us wallowing in it, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. There would be no stigma to discuss. And the gifters and chasers would find a different fantasy to fap to. And fomenting reverse-stigma as the OP has done here is 180 degrees in the wrong direction. How can we expect the world to develop compassion and understanding for the victims of a disease when many of them celebrate actively spreading it in the name of hedonism?

By the way, I come from a long BDSM background and I am no stranger to, shall we say, alternative fantasies. I’ve had things done to me by people for whom “twisted” didn’t begin to describe their fantasies, and I take that as it comes. But in the BDSM lifestyle, as twisted as it gets, the overriding principle is Safe, Sane, and Consensual. The fantasy we’re describing here is not safe, and to most rational thinkers, it is not sane. Even in those BDSM practitioners who adopt instead the RACK principle - Risk-Aware Consensual Kink - the universal understanding is that while the risk is an inherent possibility, the goal is avoidance. In the fantasy - and, regrettably, practice at issue here, the opposite is true. So I’m no one to cast shade on people’s kinky fantasies as a rule, but this…this is something altogether other. I am a living (barely) example of the end result.

[PozTalkAuthor]

I recognize this is a very sensitive subject, so, I try to reply to you as polite as I can: some fetishes discussed in the "back room" turn me on, I can't hide it; but being turned on by something does not mean wanting to pursue it or wishigng others do it; reading real stories here, and talking to real chasers, made me understand most of them are INFORMED people. They know both roads and they chose to follow one rather than the other. Of course if I discover a very close friend is a bug chaser I try to understand why, before judging him, but I would never come here or on Twitter to say "please don't, you're wrong" to strangers.

There's a debate about lack of sex education, especially young people assuming they can learn something about sex, thanks to porn; but porn's role is NOT to educate. Even if there are some videos which have this purpose, I mention "U Equals fucking U" I think most of you know what I'm talking about. And lack of education can be seen even in game chats for instance, where many women are bothered with sex requests by complete strangers.  

 

About my stories, they're set in a reversed world where "positive" is the ordinary while "negative" is the stigmatized condition - the opposite of real world, and the purpose is to induce reflection. If you're a neg reader and feel offended because the poz character calls the neg one "empty box" "electron" or such names, think about what a HIV positive person can feel when they're called names or even rejected from job, relations, family... by negative serophobics in real world.

Then, yes, I write twisted stories in the bugchasing fiction section here, but it's part of the writer's game; it does NOT mean I want to poz real people at all! How many books or films exist, where the murderer never gets caught? This does not mean authors approve such behaviours!

Books or films can be chosen; if you want to read love you do not go to the crime section; Internet is bigger, that's why my most twisted HIV stories are here in the bug chasing fictional section; what I publish elsewhere also has the talking virus, the pozworld, and so, but it's much more soft and based on relationships between positive and negative.

WTF, I am tired to explain everything to everyone, even HERE.

 

[BootmanLA]

On 8/7/2022 at 11:17 AM, onlyraw said:

PozTales - here I also think it is a matter of where these terms are used

in real life they are certainly HIVphobic and hurtful- and show the ignorance of the person using them

But in one of the fictional stories on here, when used in the  right way - they can  help in making the story more erotic in a very piggy way

I think an argument can be made in fiction for a protagonist to say "take my dirty load" or "give me that dirty load" to convey a piggy sense. Hell, I don't see a problem with that in real life, either - the first case is someone owning that his load is "dirty", the second is someone saying he doesn't mind (or even is eager) that it's "dirty".

It's when someone says "I'm clean" as a way of conveying "HIV-negative" (which, by definition, says "HIV-positive" is "dirty", regardless of how the positive person feels about being positive) that there is an issue. 

[PozTalkAuthor]

In fiction the author's duty is to specify it's fiction; as I said, there are many stories written by the so-called "enemy"'s point of view. But that does not mean authors approve a certain way to talk, or to act. In bed it's the same: if your sex partner is into it, you can degrade them, treat them as an animal or even your trash can, if all parts are consenting. 

For me, this concept is disgusting, if someone would tell me if I'm clean -meaning neg- I answer as many do: "I just took a shower". Or yes, I'm cleaner than you for sure, as I don't discriminate people by their status.