Not bring politics into the answer …. Your not allowed!

[M4mnow2]

Reading all the posts, guys wanting, wishing, preying, trying to convert, converting. Has anyone actually thought this out? Fantasy is one thing, reality is real. Has anyone asked themselves what happens if the rules change? Meds are stopped, priced incredibly high etc, will seeking treatment be allowed? provided or banned? Then what? This is NOT a political discussion, no figure pointing allowed. I’m asking YOU the question, it’s your thoughts and feelings, nobody else’s. I guess moving to a country where theses services are and do not look like to be stopped. Have you considered moving? Filled out that application? Planned your exit? Husbands who are not poz, will they stick around to look after you? Purchased a home, car etc together? Can your other half take on the financial responsibility and do they want to? Clearly we are being driven back into the closet, alas, that won’t stop what each state might do. I’m on the outside looking in, I did live in the states and moved when my husband and I divorced. Don’t get me wrong, I love America, in fact my daughter,  just returned there to work, yes, I’m concerned and will pull her out if I see things not looking balanced.

[BootmanLA]

25 minutes ago, M4mnow2 said:

Reading all the posts, guys wanting, wishing, preying, trying to convert, converting. Has anyone actually thought this out? Fantasy is one thing, reality is real. Has anyone asked themselves what happens if the rules change? Meds are stopped, priced incredibly high etc, will seeking treatment be allowed? provided or banned? Then what? This is NOT a political discussion, no figure pointing allowed. I’m asking YOU the question, it’s your thoughts and feelings, nobody else’s. I guess moving to a country where theses services are and do not look like to be stopped. Have you considered moving? Filled out that application? Planned your exit? Husbands who are not poz, will they stick around to look after you? Purchased a home, car etc together? Can your other half take on the financial responsibility and do they want to? Clearly we are being driven back into the closet, alas, that won’t stop what each state might do. I’m on the outside looking in, I did live in the states and moved when my husband and I divorced. Don’t get me wrong, I love America, in fact my daughter,  just returned there to work, yes, I’m concerned and will pull her out if I see things not looking balanced.

I realize you say that you don't want to bring politics into "the answer" but I would point out that you're asking about what would happen "if the rules change". Those rules are set by the political system, so it's kind of hard to pretend that things would substantively change in terms of access to health care other than by a shift in the political winds - and that applies in the U.S., in the U.K., in Canada (and probably much or all of the Commonwealth nations), and more.

[BlackDude]

People will do what they always do: fight for what they believe in or for what’s right. I’m the U.S.

[ErosWired]

The scenario you describe sounds far-fetched at best. You’re describing a society that doesn’t allow persons afflicted with a lethal illness to seek treatment - that would be a direct assault on basic human rights. Civil society would have to devolve into a totalitarian hellscape for its laws to prohibit its citizens from seeking life-saving care. Yes, societies can fall that far, but the thrust of your question is essentially saying that chasers should reconsider because someday medical treatment may not be available. This seems like an extremely speculative scenario. There are plenty of excellent reasons why intentionally infecting oneself with HIV is a ridiculously bad idea, but you don’t have to dig this deep to find them.

 I feel obliged to add that you have posed your question in a public discussion forum, and while you may not desire political expressions as part of the replies, you are in no position to dictate what anyone who responds is “allowed” to say on an open board. If any restriction is to be applied, that discretion belongs solely to the moderators. You may request that other members honor your wishes, but you may not demand that they comply.

[SpectreAgent]

8 hours ago, M4mnow2 said:

Reading all the posts, guys wanting, wishing, preying, trying to convert, converting. Has anyone actually thought this out? Fantasy is one thing, reality is real. Has anyone asked themselves what happens if the rules change? Meds are stopped, priced incredibly high etc, will seeking treatment be allowed? provided or banned? Then what? This is NOT a political discussion, no figure pointing allowed. I’m asking YOU the question, it’s your thoughts and feelings, nobody else’s. I guess moving to a country where theses services are and do not look like to be stopped. Have you considered moving? Filled out that application? Planned your exit? Husbands who are not poz, will they stick around to look after you? Purchased a home, car etc together? Can your other half take on the financial responsibility and do they want to? Clearly we are being driven back into the closet, alas, that won’t stop what each state might do. I’m on the outside looking in, I did live in the states and moved when my husband and I divorced. Don’t get me wrong, I love America, in fact my daughter,  just returned there to work, yes, I’m concerned and will pull her out if I see things not looking balanced.

Governments change, but the lies stay the same. Anyone who’s lived for any length of time on this planet knows that to be true. But one cannot live worrying about what might happen. I could get on an aircraft tomorrow and it plummet to the ground. I might cross the road after typing this and get knocked down by speeding car. But I’m not going to stop doing either of those things just because of the risk involved. 

You say, you don’t want to bring politics into this discussion, and yet your post practically invites it in. All I will say on that score is that it is a mistake to believe that those we agree with politically will always be our allies, and those who hold different political views are necessarily always our enemies. I’ve encountered very little homophobia in my life. The only homophobic bullying that I have been subjected to came from a line manager in an industry which is supposedly very liberal. In public, she espouses all the typical left-wing views that she deems fashionable. She is a member of – and campaigns for – the Labour Party here in the UK, and yet she treated me appallingly. It was quite clearly rooted in some deep-seated homophobia. She seems to epitomise that old adage that if you scratch a liberal, you will often find a fascist bleeding. Maybe I’m cynical. I know that I am, somewhat, but my motto is stop worrying and live until you die. It’s the only way to live.

Edited October 31, 2022 by RawPlug
Typo

[hntnhole]

The topic has come up in conversations (friends, neighbors, acquaintances), and I can understand how guys who have "lived the life" for decades are concerned.  The question, however, remains, move to where?  Toronto?  That would be the most-close to our way of life, but there are no guarantees that if our Democracy fails things will be much better there. Some have mentioned Uruguay as a potential haven.  Some have mentioned Portugal.  That would mean many of us would have to learn a new language, uproot everything, and jump into a completely new life, without knowing for sure whether it would be successful.  

I don't think the issue of who gets medical treatment and who doesn't would arise until a new, repressive Government would have time to establish itself, in that there would be existential threats to that institutionalized repression any new Gov't would have to deal with before getting around to us.  It's really difficult to see through the haze of the potential threats at this point, so I advocate for waiting to see what happens in the next 3-5 years.  Make preparations if one wants to, sure; no harm there.  I would imagine that if worse comes to worse, the repressions would start with the kids, as a "preventative" measure, leaving the already long-term Free men to simply fade away.  Until whatever is coming actually happens, it's really tough to see through the seething pot of flux.  

At this point, there are only differing theories - of which, only one will prove true.  Stirring the pot too much before it's ready only dissipates some of the heat, it doesn't affect the flavor of the outcome.  

[NWUSHorny]

I've thought a little about moving to Canada, although not hard enough to look into what it would take to permanently migrate. Up until 2 years ago I had had temporary work permits to legally work in Canada most of the time for the previous 12 years. Since I have friends, business contacts and a long work history it might be easier for me than most people. Given how much things have changed in recent years in the US and UK, Canada's 2 closest cultures, I'm not sure if it would remain a safe haven.

 

@hntnhole

I actually know a family that migrated to Uraguay, "to get away from the toxic chemicals in the environment", and it has been quite a cultural shock for them. One thing that is really clear is that for them, from a physical violence standpoint it is not a safer place to reside. They seem committed, but did move back to the US for 6 months after one incedent.

[Spunkinmyarse]

2 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

Given how much things have changed in recent years in the US and UK, Canada's 2 closest cultures, I'm not sure if it would remain a safe haven.

I can’t speak for the US, @NWUSHorny- but as far as the UK is concerned, I don’t think much has changed at all, except that we left the EU and the Queen died.

We’re still just muddling through in our own somewhat messy manner… plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

Edited October 31, 2022 by Spunkinmyarse

[FunCheerSlut]

Perhaps the OP is looking for some guys to admit that their fantasy of becoming POZ (given a rule change) would actually remain that... just a fantasy.

All I can say is that if you play with fire you will likely and eventually get burned.

[hntnhole]

6 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

One thing that is really clear is that for them, from a physical violence standpoint it is not a safer place to reside.

Really !!!  I reckon that's one to cross off the short list !!!  As an aside: wasn't that where quite a number of potential war criminals snuck off to after WWII ?

I'm not sure enough folks understand how dangerous the situation really is in the US.  But, everyone has to do what they think (as in spending some intellectual effort at it) is best.  All this talk about so-called "poll watchers" may be true in some places, but when I took my ballot downtown to the dropbox at the registrar's office, no one looked twice at me, and I didn't see any shady characters lurking about at all .... 

[BootmanLA]

5 hours ago, hntnhole said:

Really !!!  I reckon that's one to cross off the short list !!!  As an aside: wasn't that where quite a number of potential war criminals snuck off to after WWII ?

The primary place they went was Argentina, which took in as many as 5,000 former Nazi officials and their families. Smaller numbers went to Brazil and Chile, and it's likely some went to Uruguay, but as far as I know, it wasn't a particularly targeted spot for fleeing Nazis.

Before the war, it's true that Germany had secret plans to invade Uruguay and establish the country as a German colony. Those plans were exposed, however, and the local Nazi-sympathizing conspirators (ie Nazis) were arrested. For most of WWII, Uruguay was a neutral party, though it broke off relations with the Axis powers in 1942; in early 1945, it entered the war against Germany and Japan on the side of the Allies.

[ErosWired]

12 hours ago, hntnhole said:

I don't think the issue of who gets medical treatment and who doesn't would arise until a new, repressive Government would have time to establish itself, in that there would be existential threats to that institutionalized repression any new Gov't would have to deal with before getting around to us.

Just so. And those existential threats to such a repressive government in the United States would likely arise due to the very Second Amendment the potential repressors seem to keen to endorse. There is a statement attributed to Isoroku Yamamoto, commander-in-chief of the Japanese navy in the second world war, cautioning against an invasion of the mainland U.S. because there would be “a rifle behind every blade of grass.” This account may be apocryphal, but it is true nonetheless. Should such a an unjust, tyrannical government attempt to take root in this soil, it would not occur to me to emigrate to other soil; I would simply fight to uproot it, and pour whatever blood into this soil was needed, including my own, to kill it off.