Florida becoming more and more Republican

[Want my 1st cock]

Moderator: Forking this thread to its own discussion in the Politics forum.

On 1/16/2023 at 12:11 PM, ellentonboy said:

Are you sure you want to move to a state that is becoming more and more Republican?  I used to say I was not political, but our current governor is a real,  how shall I say, Nazi? Lauderdale is beautiful, I love it there to.   So many gay men and options.   I live in Saint Petersburg, where the cost of living is slightly lower and I can still get laid.

Still, think about other options because in a few years I am getting out of Florida,  I am currently thinking of Palm Springs or Palm Desert, Ca as a potential retirement area. 

As someone who lives in CA I would say consider staying in Florida. CA is beautiful but our taxes and cost of living is like a runaway freight train that is out of control. People cannot afford housing, crime is out of control and in LA alone we have over 25 % of the counties homelessness and the drug addiction is heartbreaking. I see all of it daily as a Social Worker. Also as a person of Judaism faith that lost MULTIPLE family members in our family history because of their religious affiliation I would respectfully request that you understand what the word Nazi really means and represents. I don’t pay attention to politics or your Gov but I’m sure he’s not a “Nazi”

[BootmanLA]

18 hours ago, Want my 1st cock said:

Also as a person of Judaism faith that lost MULTIPLE family members in our family history because of their religious affiliation I would respectfully request that you understand what the word Nazi really means and represents. I don’t pay attention to politics or your Gov but I’m sure he’s not a “Nazi”

Perhaps if you were paying more attention to politics, you might realize that the governor of Florida is sounding and acting much like Hitler did in his early days, but directed more against LGBT people and immigrants - who, it might be noted, were also targets of Hitler and the Nazis. Hitler didn't become evil only once he started actually sending people to the camps; he started with harassment and book banning and other forms of targeting the affected populations, exactly as DeSantis is doing now. Because the way you get the people in general to accept things like hauling groups off to camps is by spending years demonizing them as less-than-fully-human such that enough people are willing to look the other way. 

[hntnhole]

On 1/27/2023 at 1:17 AM, Want my 1st cock said:

I would respectfully request that you understand what the word Nazi really means and represents.

As would I.  I concur with BootmanLA, in that unless we a) are educated about the past, and b) determined never to repeat the horror foisted upon the German People, there is a decent chance that history will repeat itself.  How the German people - the very flower of culture - art, literature, music, engineering, on and on -were so thoroughly brainwashed is an example to the rest of the world. If it happened there, it can happen here too.

The National Socialist German Worker's Party is the original name, shortened to "nazi" in colloquial German.  We are now 10 months away from the 100th anniversary of that so-called "beer hall putsch" in Munich (a rather conservative city in a very conservative German State) and the parallels to events here in the US are simply stunning when we open our eyes and look. 

The aforementioned eventual Chancellor of that nation purposefully catered to the sense of being unfairly treated after Versailles.  He manufactured lies like kids eat candy, and pried up the rocks under which ancient divisions in that populace had laid in wait, like a festering cancer that wouldn't die.  He was the author of countless lies, deceits, manipulations, and managed to completely corrupt the former Weimar Republic.  

Does that sound like anything that's happened here in the US in the recent past?  A demagogue, attempting to be elected by any means necessary, spewing every untruth he can come up with, whoremonger, draft dodger, author of filth known and still yet to be discovered, finally actually making it happen, blushing at nothing to seize power? Subsequent to the war that defeated the aggressors, the term "nazi" came into common use to describe anti-everything politicians spewing every kind of lie they could come up with, pouring gasoline on the simmering hatreds of a population. 

Sound familiar yet? 

Mr. DeSantis is now copying his political ancestor by banning books in schools that teach *real* history, at which the existing domestic public education system has failed spectacularly.  He has already hosted a pseudo "torchlight parade" by a group of  openly, shamelessly blunt Caucasian racists; a particularly sordid and ridiculously-effected stain upon our nation - and you think that the term "nazi" it too tough for him? 

I feel terrible about what happened to your family, and the millions of others of your Faith Tradition.  It's the most horrific event in recent centuries, and we - the people of the world - can never allow that to happen again.  The way we can prevent it however, is to recognize anti-human filth for what it is, reject it, and bend our efforts to improving the lives of everyone, as opposed to singling out certain ethnicities, faith-traditions, or any other potentially divisive groups to point the rotted finger of guilt at.  

Every one of us must open our eyes to what's afoot here in the US, and together we can defeat the filth - maybe even without a war.  

Thank you, Want my 1st cock, for your response.  

[hntnhole]

This thread has evolved a bit .... might these remarks belong in the Politics department?  

[evilqueerpig]

Since he's of the same heritage I refer to him as Il Douchebag Wrong DeInsanity and he grows more power hungry by the day.  My greatest hope is for him to meet the same fate as Il Duce, hanged by his legs in public.  Vicious?  FUCK YES!

[hntnhole]

16 hours ago, evilqueerpig said:

My greatest hope is for him to meet the same fate as Il Duce, hanged by his legs in public.  Vicious?  FUCK YES!

Wellllll .... he hasn't butchered millions quite yet - so maybe permanent retirement in a nice new home at RIKERS would suffice?  Or maybe that lovely retirement home in San Francisco  bay? 

As I understand it, there are plenty of hungry *real* sharks in those waters, in the event he tries to make a run (or swim) for it .... 

[hntnhole]

I'd be interested in the demographics behind this .... I know there are tons of the "R's" here in FL, but I don't see the evidence they're growing all that much.  Thanks to the SCOTUS, the Disney-Debacle, other repressions, I'm not so sure they're increasing all that much in numbers.  Crist was a flawed candidate anyway, so I discount his failure.  Our Dancing Daughter (little Margo Rubia) outraised Val Demings exponentially (and not sufficiently funded by the DNC, which threw hundreds of thousands on R's they thought could be out-maneuvered  elsewhere).  We'll see how long it takes to dislodge him.  

Edited January 29, 2023 by hntnhole

[ellentonboy]

I live in a city that has a democratic mayor and is very diversified racially.  Right now "tourist season" has begun and I see nothing but cars from Indiana, Wisconsin, Ohio all coming into my area because we have a fantastic, relatively new Publix.  Even though St. Pete beach has one, I am forced to look at women wearing bathing suit coverings that don't cover enough, or couples who obviously spent the night frolicking in their waterfront rooms based on her lack of makeup and his hair standing up.  They wear no underwear, done big black out sunglasses, and have pre-ordered their Publix subs.   But I digress.....

What I do see is - MAGA hats (yes!) Vote for Trump in 2020 (they have yet to find somewhere to buy a 2024 sticker).  But here is my concern,  THEY ARE COMING HERE TO RETIRE.  "The Villiages" (I call it Florida Republican Heaven's Waiting Room), is not far from me.  Almost every upscale retirement community has a voting precinct on it's property (my parents lived in one from 1987 till their deaths in the mid 2016s and the Bush years was a scary time).

But if you don't think Florida is becoming bright red you are mistaken.  My little area will hold onto blue (Saint Petersburg) but other parts of Pinellas county are a strong purple.  I thought the way Puerto Rico was treated by Trump after Hurricane Maria many from that island might hop over on a plane and stay with relatives along the I-4 corridor.  The stunts DeSatan and his "NO WOKE" policy, as well as the "DISNEY DEBACLE" would surely get them to vote for a Democratic, but Charlie got slammed in this last election and poor Val got little financial support.

I am very worried about the future of Florida, worried they will clamp down on any organized gay activities, try to restrict fundamental rights.

But I am left with one question?  Where could I move to that isn't constantly hit with natural disasters (I got lucky this year) or awful winters, or police brutality or crime?  I thought of South Carolina, I know they are red, but hopefully Lady Graham will retire and exist solely for filling the wallets of sex workers and B level porn starts???

Anyone have plans to flee the Sunshine state?

[hntnhole]

8 minutes ago, ellentonboy said:

What I do see is - MAGA hats

Things do sound worse on the West Coast.  I haven't seen one of those hats in a long time.  There was a house several blocks SW of my 'hood with a big "Lets Go Brandon" sign on the roof (it's on a shortcut to Slammer, or I'd never have seen it), but that came down about a year ago.  I suppose the owner was afraid of getting burned out.  As you know, we have a Dem (and gay) mayor here in Ft.L., W.M's not only has a gay mayor, but the whole city government is either gay or g-friendly.  A decent percentage of cops are also gay around here. 

On the other hand, it's been years since Ft.L. took a direct hit from a major hurricane, and we're about due.  Since we're only a few miles S of Maga Blargo up in P.B., I suppose that Whatever is going to aim one here soon.   I don't want to pull up roots again - I'll probably just ride it out until I'm outta here forever, come what may. 

[NWUSHorny]

I remember seeing a lot of MAGA signs and flags in FL with my parents last winter. I don't remember where they were most concentrated since we drove both coasts, but they were noticably present most places.

[ejaculaTe]

4 hours ago, hntnhole said:

Wellllll .... he hasn't butchered millions quite yet - so maybe permanent retirement in a nice new home at RIKERS would suffice?  Or maybe that lovely retirement home in San Francisco  bay? 

Alcatraz has been closed for decades, and Rikers would only take NYC prisoners likely. He needs some place like Atlanta USP or Lewisburg USP or Leavenworth USP.

[hntnhole]

1 hour ago, ejaculaTe said:

Alcatraz has been closed for decades

So much the better .... but any of your suggestions will do !!!  Thanks.

[hntnhole]

1 hour ago, NWUSHorny said:

I remember seeing a lot of MAGA signs and flags

There's a neighborhood on the far N side of Ft. L. that one of my old buddies in Chgo was interested in.  He happened to come to check things out just before the Presidential election, and the area he was interested in was covered with O.J. paraphernalia.  He told the realtor to get him outta there, as he wouldn't want to live there in MagaLand at all.  Plus, all the older homes had been torn down, replaced by ridiculously overdesigned outrages so common in the ritzier neighborhoods; each house more architecturally insulting than the last. 

He wound up with a very nice place over in Wilton Manors - right in the thick of the action.  

[BootmanLA]

My perception about Florida, and it's just my perspective from a distance: I think there are several factors at play in Florida's tilt to the right.

1. For a long time, Florida's retirement population was (stereotypically, but somewhat accurately) New Yorkers, with a substantial Jewish contingent among them. They came from predominantly liberal areas and settled down in the Gold Coast area - Palm Beach, Broward, and Dade (now Miami-Dade) counties.

Those people required support - health care workers, live-in care in some cases, lots of hospitality workers for those who wanted to avoid cooking, and so forth. Lots of gays and lesbians among them. So the residents, at one time (and this was the most populous part of the state) were weighted heavily towards progressive/liberal sorts.

2. There were a lot of snowbirds who would come down for the winter, and many of them were conservative, but they primarily lived, and usually voted, back home in their spring/summer/fall residences. Palm Beach even had a recognized "season" among the well-to-do, where it was kind of outre to show up at one's winter place before late November, often after Thanksgiving (because a proper Thanksgiving required the rest of the family, and chilly weather, and all that). The "season" was over by shortly after Easter, with some stragglers who otherwise lived in the northernmost parts of the country remaining into May.

The less affluent snowbirds - especially those living in RV's and mobile homes - weren't tied to the social schedule but they also had no reason to stick around for the heat of spring and summer, which arrives early in south Florida. So they, too, tended to vote back home, where they considered they still "lived". They might have been more conservative voters, but they voted back home in Illinois or Iowa or wherever they spent the summer.

So what's changed?

3. The Villages, most famously, but other retirement developments as well, changed a lot of that. Florida retirement became more widely open to red-state conservatives, who appreciated the lack of an income tax, and by establishing these developments in formerly rural counties that were already more conservative than the Gold Coast, they created new population centers away from the liberal cities. The expansion of the Villages came at a time when vast areas of formerly agricultural land were being bought up cheaply and converted for residential use, in part (though not entirely) because much of our country's food production was being shifted out of the country. (In 2004, friends of mine bought a portion of a former citrus farm that had gone out of business for that very reason.)

4. Back in the late 1980's and into the 1990's, after the end of the Cold War, the U.S. notably phased out quite a few military bases in the country (remember the Base Closing Commission, anyone?). While the number of bases and installations shrunk, their duties and (and many of their personnel) were shifted to other bases. Florida was one of the "winner" states; it still has a substantial military presence (56 bases, third behind California and Texas), primarily on the Gulf Coast, and those tend to be at least somewhat conservative voters.

5. The growth in the Cuban-American population. Not all Cubans are Republicans, of course, but among the various Hispanic groups with substantial numbers in the US, they are among the more conservative across the board. Their trend toward conservatism grew with Ronald Reagan's staunch anti-communism and was accelerated by Bill Clinton's return of Elian Gonzales to his father in Cuba. Barack Obama's loosening of restrictions on travel to Cuba and some of the embargo in place tilted even more Cuban Americans (especially older ones) against the Democratic party. Donald Trump made reversing almost every policy of Obama's a campaign promise and freezing relations, then rolling back some of his predecessor's actions made him popular with a lot of Cuban-Americans (again, especially older ones).

In 2000, there were 853,000 Cuban-born people in this country (heavily concentrated in Florida, but of course in other places as well). By 2017, there were 1.28 million Cuban-born people here, or more than 400,000 Cuban-born residents in the U.S. That's not counting descendants of Cuban-born people (e.g. Marco Rubio), who number an additional 1 million - meaning that more people of Cuban descent in this country were born in Cuba than were born here.

Those Cuban-born people tend to despise Castro, and because of the GOP's push to keep sanctions in place and hamper relations, the Republican party enjoys a lot more support among Cuban-Americans than among most other Hispanics.

6. The dying-off of the earlier retirees. A population of retirees is constantly dying off, human nature being what it is, and it's constantly getting an influx of new retirees that offsets some of those deaths (or exceeds them, if retirement developments are growing). As noted in the Villages discussion, newer retirees to Florida are trending much redder, while the older populations were much more true-blue. As they die off, they're not being replaced by an equal number of liberal retirees from the northeast, in part because the populations of many such places is also declining, or at least not growing very fast. New York has gone from having 45 members of Congress in the mid-1950's to just 26 members today. As recently as 1983 New Jersey had 15 representatives, now down to 12. And so on. 

As the population shrinks (or fails to grow), that population will send fewer retirees wherever they're going (if they leave).

Put all of this together, and it's not a complete surprise that Florida is tilting red (and getting redder). 

 

[hntnhole]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:48 PM, BootmanLA said:

Not all Cubans are Republicans, of course

I would add that, after the fall of the Batista Government, there were tons of small-business owners who felt they had worked hard to have what they had, and fled to FL, packing their industriousness right along with their undies.  Small business owners (well, most business owners, for that matter) are R's mostly for financial reasons.  In my short experience in FL, I find these to be quite industrious folk.  While dominating the Miami area, just to the north is Broward County, the most "blue" county in the state.  There are plenty of small business owners of Cuban origin here in Ft. L. too.  I have no knowledge about what percentage of these people drank the Orange Jesus cool-aid, but I'm assuming there was a substantial number.