Bathhouses disappearing 🙁

[BootmanLA]

I think there are two broad groups of factors at play here (no pun intended).

Certainly, all of the things mentioned thus far (COVID, gentrification, squandering of revenues, and long before these, HIV) have taken their toll. But in theory, none of those should be fatal to the business concept if it's sound. Virtually every other type of business shuttered temporarily by COVID re-opened; if gentrifying forces drive a bathhouse out of a gayborhood, there's always somewhere else, on the periphery, that's the "next place" that someone can develop. If it closes because the owners/managers put all the profits up their noses or into their veins, well, demand should result in something similar taking its place with leadership less beholden to "substances" (as they're euphemistically called). And while HIV shut down a lot of bathhouses originally, quite a few had weathered that storm and/or reopened with at least a token nod towards safer sex, even if virtually nobody was using the free condoms any longer.

But I think what's really going on at the same time is a gradual shift away from that entire bathhouse culture, with it becoming a niche that can't operate sustainably in most markets. I'm neither saluting nor condemning that shift, just noting it. When I came out right at the end of the 1970's, it was pretty much every gay boy's dream to move to the big city and throw oneself into a life of readily available sex 24/7, especially at the baths, without having to worry about bringing people home or to a shared apartment or whatever. Due to decades of work pushing public acceptance of gays, an awful lot of those gay boys today want nothing more elaborate than a good husband to come home to. 

I think some baths will hang on for years to come. But I'd be shocked if we saw a net increase in their numbers in the US, at least, or in any given city here. I think they're like drive-in theaters: something many of us remember fondly, but still fully aware of their drawbacks. And I think what we'll see, before too long, is that a bunch of them are going to shut down simply because there just isn't the demand there once was, and the coming generations just won't have an interest.

 

[PozBearWI]

I certainly hope some will hang on for years to come @BootmanLA.  We have a definite social shift towards virtual and touching people can be problematic in some circles.  We are becoming it seems a much less tactile species.  In my part of our country I'm one of the guys who provides an occasional play space for my group (typically 40 show up).  I try to replicate to some extent the bathhouse theme in my play areas.  The closest bathhouse to me now is in Chicago, more than 2 hours away.  

Here in rural America the prevalent POV is NIMY (not in my backyard) which precludes populous areas.  Rents in cities, even small ones, is surprisingly high which could push entry fees up quite a bit.  Are we willing to pay $200 for a night of play?  I suspect yes, but across a smaller pool - which adds to the difficulty; Does $200 need to become $500 to enter because monthly rent and triple net is $50,000; plus utilities which could easily be in the 10,000 a month.  And as much as no one wants to admit it, the sexier our purpose the more exposed we are as businesses to social harassments in one form or another.   At a point what I need to charge to pay a staff with benefits to run a 24x7 operation "health club".  

You draw an excellent comparison I believe with Drive In Theatres.  Hell locally theatres which don't have jumbo screens are following in drive in footsteps.  

[topblkmale]

Add 2022 monkey pox outbreak.

I recall one bathhouse in the US shutdown during MP but never reopened.

[Davidc]

We lost Pink Broadway in Southampton UK ,.

Not sure of the reasons but likely never got to critical mass after long covid closures / very high utilities prices / gentrification of area.

What ever the reason a great loss , as well as being a great sex venue it was always a safe welcoming space for all gay and undecideds.

Unlikely to be replaced.

 

[hntnhole]

17 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

I think there are two broad groups of factors at play

There may be one more:  the advent of the hook-up apps?  Around here, there are guys getting run down almost weekly because they're staring at their (presumably Grinder) apps, paying not whit's worth of attention to what's around them.  It must be similar to the much-decried "addiction" that teens across the bored (!) have to their telephones.  Recently I had to buy a new telephone, and I still get every kind of ad, offer, "come-on", every day.  I've deleted as many as I can find, but they still keep coming.  And, who ever anointed some people as "influencers" anyway?  

I wish there were still those old, black Bakelite telephones on a stand in the corner - when it rang, you picked it up and hollered "hello".  If  you weren't home, too damn bad - whoever it was would just have to try again.  

[tallslenderguy]

Great discussion topic nekofox, thanks for starting it!

Like NWUSHorny, i've always found the bathhouse scene in Portland OR to be lukewarm at best.  Two BH's, Steam and Hawks. i've never been to Steam, been to Hawks several time pre Covid and discovered i could get a hella lot more sex at my local ABS in Albany OR than i ever got at Hawks, an that was pre pandemic.

As a side note to nekofox's OP, i think Hawks in LV was owned by the same peeps as PDX?  i've been to both. i was surprised by the LV location, that is was pretty dead. i only went once and found it a waste. i got more action on aps and doing anonymous walk in in my hotel room in Vegas, the BH was a waste of time for me. 

This spring i went to Slammers in Ft Lauderdale. It was so busy they had overflow parking and a lot attendant. i did go on a Saturday, but suspect locals can attest to it being a thriving venue?  i also went to Palm Springs this year and stayed at All Worlds. They have "The Maze," which is essentially a BH as part of the hotel. It's closed during the week and opens on weekends, but stays busy till late afternoon on Sunday. 

i think both PS and Ft L have a larger than average gay population, so that may factor into the success of gay sex venues in the area?  ABS still seem pretty active to me, but i suspect they attract a different sector of guys, many closeted and on the DL who might not be likely to frequent an openly gay venue? 

Of course, the net and aps have evolved hook up.  When i lived in VA, Hampton Roads had a huge military presence and cruise parks that always had 30 horny guys. There was lots of socialization as well as sex. Those places are not used in that way anymore (i've tried on  subsequent visits back east, dead as the proverbial door nail). Hello grindr. 

 

 

 

[lower_bucks_bottom]

21 hours ago, topblkmale said:

Sansom Street Gym most likely will be shutdown. Its currently temporarily closed. Don't know why.

They had a fire with a lot of smoke and water damage

[NWUSHorny]

I was really surprised by the closure of Denver Swim Club (my 1st bathhouse and the standard I wish all bathhouses could meet for ease of finding willing partners) and Denver Midtowne Spa, those 2 were always busy, and had a lot of actual fucking when I lived there, and on return visits in the years since. DSC did not make it through the pandemic, but Midtowne reopened and from what I heard was drawing crowds after the pandemic. I believe it was the 2nd to last Midtowne location to close. I was also a big fan of several other Midtowne locations namely Melrose and 1350 in LA, and Milwaukee, all of which I believe were lost to gentrification.

@tallslenderguy Hawks in Vegas could be hit or miss, but even on my worst visits was never as slow as really good night at any of the bathhouses in Portland, Seattle or Vancouver, BC. I haven't been to either of the 2 that are still open in Vegas, but would guess they are all more depended on who is in town than the true local scene. As to the park scene, I've found that at least LA and Palm Springs have a lot of park cruising this summer, as did Denver immediately before the pandemic on top of the active bathhouse scene, but I haven't been back since.

[partying.hard]

I got a fierce case of gono at Denver Swim Club December 1999!

[PozBearWI]

Indeed those pesky bugs do show up from time to time for those of us who bareback only and are, um, playful....

[NWUSHorny]

43 minutes ago, partying.hard said:

I got a fierce case of gono at Denver Swim Club December 1999!

My 1st visit was in February 2000 (I think), so you didn't get it from me.

[BootmanLA]

7 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

i think both PS and Ft L have a larger than average gay population, so that may factor into the success of gay sex venues in the area?

Not just larger than average, but older than average, meaning people who can remember the golden age of bathhouses (or people who knew people who remembered).

Gays younger than a certain age - maybe 55 ish? - are less likely to have experienced any of that, or to have been close to people who did. Not that they don't exist, of course, but it wasn't part of their cultural upbringing the way it was for guys who are now, say, 62 or so.

[DallasPozzible]

Looks like even Club Dallas is no longer a bathhouse. Guess I need to go see the bats. 
 

[BootmanLA]

8 hours ago, hntnhole said:

There may be one more:  the advent of the hook-up apps?  Around here, there are guys getting run down almost weekly because they're staring at their (presumably Grinder) apps, paying not whit's worth of attention to what's around them.  It must be similar to the much-decried "addiction" that teens across the bored (!) have to their telephones.  Recently I had to buy a new telephone, and I still get every kind of ad, offer, "come-on", every day.  I've deleted as many as I can find, but they still keep coming.  And, who ever anointed some people as "influencers" anyway?  

I wish there were still those old, black Bakelite telephones on a stand in the corner - when it rang, you picked it up and hollered "hello".  If  you weren't home, too damn bad - whoever it was would just have to try again.  

To be clear: I agree, but I consider the rise of apps part of the shift away from bathhouse culture. In other words, the two broad factors I see are (a) the headwinds that bathhouses have faced externally - increasing rent, gentrification, HIV/COVID/Mpox restrictions, etc., and (b) the decline in demand because the product is no longer as broadly wanted as it once was. I think pretty much every reason for the decline can be grouped into one of those two baskets, even those not yet mentioned, if any.

[BootmanLA]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:24 PM, JimInWisc said:

I certainly hope some will hang on for years to come @BootmanLA. 

...

 

You draw an excellent comparison I believe with Drive In Theatres.  Hell locally theatres which don't have jumbo screens are following in drive in footsteps.  

I'd love it if every form of legit, non-exploitative entertainment could survive and thrive (ie yes to bathhouses and gay bars, no to shooting galleries and cockfights and dogfights). But the history of human culture, in general, shows things wax and wane, and sometimes never come back after one of those waning periods. Others, like bowling alleys and the rare drive in, survive as niche options.