Will you change your approach or "opinions" if a European country becomes officially Islamic?

[verslut]

I wanna point out the USA's been getting western Europe's most bizarre Christians for hundreds of years. It has major, multigenerational effects on America's politics and gay rights. I can't even say these countries are getting a taste of their own medicine, because Europe's Muslim proportion is projected to be only 5% of the total population.

[PozBearWI]

We were the non Jews in a Jewish neighborhood when I was born, and before grade school became the non Catholics in a Catholic neighborhood.  I was aware of other global religions, but by early adulthood began to work with people who grew up in other cultures.  Truly, our individual religions (or not as the case may be) had nothing to do with our work.  

So on this whole question, on one hand, I haven't experienced a problem.  But it is certainly evident in Gaza and Israel.  And the crux of that is the more fundamentalist Palestinians (Hamas) wanting and taking steps to cause Israel to cease to exist.  If a European country declares itself ruled by a particular religion it really depends upon how that manifests doesn't it?  The religion itself is simply that.  

With Russia/Ukraine it isn't religion but one particular head of state wanting to eliminate and consume all of the other.  The end result is the same.  

My personal line in the sand are others telling me what I am allowed to believe.  If we can coexist with that great.  If that is a deal breaker; we have a problem.  Honestly, I don't see what is so difficult for some to accept that others have different beliefs.  Unless of course those beliefs are that differences can't exist.  

There is a whole lot of social energy around people telling others what they can do with their own bodies.  For me that is the crux of the "abortion issue".  Honest I am never going to have an abortion; nor impregnate anyone.  I have no skin in the game of abortion, save that telling someone they can't end their pregnancy if they see a need to for themselves isn't any different than requiring vasectomies; or neutering someone against their will.   Every one of us should have domain over our own bodies.  

Telling people what they must believe and/or do with their own bodies is what leads us into social traps where authoritarian governments become more dominate.

[SFCumdog]

16 hours ago, viking8x6 said:

Yes, it is troubling. But far from unique to Muslims. Over here in the states, things of that nature are happening too - but when I was bullied, it was by plain old white christian kids who looked (more or less) exactly like me, and by black kids (who were the worst bullies at my primary school). In that time and place, Muslims were far more likely to be the recipients of bullying than the perpetrators.

Yes, I am sure we've all had that situation to some degree or another, but they bring weapons to school to harm you? And did you get sent to another school for your own "protection?" That's where I think it crosses the line. Plus he has told me that it's a very different situation than the usual bullying.

[KERVORKIANjack]

On 5/2/2024 at 1:54 AM, NWUSHorny said:

 What indications do you have that he intends to do it? 

Do you think your heroes in the Pentagon and FBI and such, they have a rule where they're only allowed to discuss how they'd respond to something "when it's about to happen"? You know the ones who are keeping you safe from "INSURREECSHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN" ............ (a word that makes Colbert-watching basement dwellers feel so intellectual and Shakepearey....)

Queue your next pitiful non-response.

Edited May 5 by KERVORKIANjack

[viking8x6]

7 hours ago, SFCumdog said:

Yes, I am sure we've all had that situation to some degree or another, but they bring weapons to school to harm you? And did you get sent to another school for your own "protection?" That's where I think it crosses the line. Plus he has told me that it's a very different situation than the usual bullying.

My point wasn't that I was subjected to similar circumstances (I wasn't, or I'd have said so).  It was that the perpetrators of bad behavior are not in any way limited to people of a certain religion.

Here in the states, the great majority of anti-LGBTQ bullying is done by christians of one stripe or another. Yes, kids do bring weapons to school. Yes, kids do get moved to different schools to avoid bad situations. And yes, there are neighborhoods where people who don't fit in to that neighborhood's culture simply don't go. Over here, that last situation is mostly about black/white racial tensions.

[BootmanLA]

3 hours ago, viking8x6 said:

My point wasn't that I was subjected to similar circumstances (I wasn't, or I'd have said so).  It was that the perpetrators of bad behavior are not in any way limited to people of a certain religion.

Here in the states, the great majority of anti-LGBTQ bullying is done by christians of one stripe or another. Yes, kids do bring weapons to school. Yes, kids do get moved to different schools to avoid bad situations. And yes, there are neighborhoods where people who don't fit in to that neighborhood's culture simply don't go. Over here, that last situation is mostly about black/white racial tensions.

Not only do kids bring weapons to school in the U.S., but there have been any number of incidents of LGBT students being physically assaulted, sometimes with weapons, in the last few decades. It's not usually by Muslim students - it's by ostensibly straight "Christian" students, overwhelmingly. And it's certainly not unknown for students to be transferred to other schools for their protection, rather than dealing with the offending little shits causing the problem.

[hntnhole]

18 hours ago, PozBearWI said:

Honestly, I don't see what is so difficult for some to accept that others have different beliefs.  Unless of course those beliefs are that differences can't exist

Well said, and thanks for the clarity.  

I see our current disfunction in the Congress as a manifestation of that same dilemma: 

When one group of people hinge their humanity on certain ancient and magical beliefs, handed down for millennia, the infected folks wind up believing (without any intellectual work at all) that only their own beliefs are the real, true, Gawd-Given truths, and no matter what the source, any other beliefs - oh, say human rights for all - simply must be refused if "the other" holds equally magical foundations to their belief-system.  Applying one's own supernatural beliefs to other groups with equally ancient, magical beliefs is confounding to working out problems together, making it next to impossible.  

The insistence that 'my magical beliefs are the only "truth", and yours are therefore false', is the age-old recipe for humanity attempting to kill itself off.  Resources are increasingly scarce, which only exacerbates the jealousies and hatreds. 

Now that military abilities have become so advanced, I wonder how we - the human race - can continue to coexist with these ancient hatreds.  If/when the cataclysm happens, I wonder if Old Mother Earth will even miss or remember us .... she'll be too busy trying to bandage her wounds.  Maybe she'll just try to repair the damage we've done to our home, and forget we were ever here.  

If we prove incapable of the old saying "live, and let live", well ..... I guess it's up to all of us to answer that one together.

[PozBearWI]

Well said @hntnhole.  

I wonder then if this is part of humanities genetic code for population control.  We seem to be beating down the viruses which are trying to kill us; and floods and winds and quakes aren't making much of a dent.  Not to say I want widespread death; but historically we've had times of massive population shrinkage - black plague big among them; and I suspect some before that in cultures we were never cognizant of.  

[BadBob214]

I'm strongly against all religions. They're just popularised cults designed to control and dominate people. I'm very suspicious of any followers of any religion,  no matter what their beliefs or agenda. 

[KERVORKIANjack]

On 5/5/2024 at 3:47 PM, viking8x6 said:

My point was............. that the perpetrators of bad behavior are not in any way limited to people of a certain religion.

In what universe is that a point? 

[PozBearWI]

1 hour ago, KERVORKIANjack said:

In what universe is that a point? 

@KERVORKIANjack perhaps you didn't read the OP and thus are clueless about this discussion.  But the point is all perpetrators of bad behavior aren't Islamic.  

[KERVORKIANjack]

14 minutes ago, PozBearWI said:

@KERVORKIANjack perhaps you didn't read the OP and thus are clueless about this discussion.  But the point is all perpetrators of bad behavior aren't Islamic.  

So that means we should pretend such "perpetrations" didn't happen

 

(that's what both you and "Viking" really mean, but you're just about smart enough to realise how stupid that sounds so no-one ever adds it on).

[NWUSHorny]

8 minutes ago, PozBearWI said:

But the point is all perpetrators of bad behavior aren't Islamic.  

Very true, and currently in the US we have "Christian" influencers not only pushing their extremist religious views, but advocating rounding up those that don't agree with them and placing us in camps or executing us. A few of these so called "Christian" influencers are Trump/MAGA supporters that are frequent guests of Trump at Mar a Lago. It is possible and necessary to staunchly oppose Muslims, Christians and any other religious groups that want to do this simultaneously.  All theocratic governments are bad period.

[viking8x6]

1 hour ago, KERVORKIANjack said:

In what universe is that a point? 

May I suggest, since you seem bound and determined to have an argument devoid of meaningful "content" and replete with "quotation marks" misused for no discernable purpose, that you try a different web site?

Perhaps this one:

 

[KERVORKIANjack]

On 5/6/2024 at 7:15 PM, viking8x6 said:

 

May I suggest, since you seem bound and determined to have an argument devoid of meaningful "content" and replete with "quotation marks" misused for no discernable purpose, that you try a different web site?

Perhaps this one:

 

Um, maybe it was free of "content" that you feel you can actually reply to.

It wasn't "content-free" you just plucked that phrase out  cause you'd run out of road and hoped it would annoy me. It did but not enough to call you a name!

 

Merely saying someone is "determined to argue" makes them bad does it? Wow. I'm determined so I must be crazy or bad?

 

You're determined for us to keep treading water in your pseudointellectual inflatable kiddy pool............ instead of probing important topics such as ISISlam which isn't our friend and never will be.

(btw... already seen "Monty Python" when I was about 12, I'm British remember.  And middle class. and above 30. TRY HARDER!)