Grindr banned in the Olympic Village in Paris (2024)

[blackrobe]

57 minutes ago, brnbk said:

I am very surprised that someone who worked/works for Grindr would defend its policies!

You managed to take my having worked on PR issues in the technology industry and extrapolated that into having worked at Grindr. I'm beginning to see how you might have arrived at your highly speculative hypotheses.

Full disclosure: I have never been employed in any capacity by Grindr. I was approached by an executive recruiter once several years ago regarding a senior position there and, knowing their history, I declined.

[BootmanLA]

1 hour ago, brnbk said:

homophobia and hetro-normative structures are not just a hypothesis but a lived reality of gay people and needs to be recognized and called out wherever it shows up. 

Agreed. That said, ....

1 hour ago, brnbk said:

Is it really that hard to conceive, within the realm of possibility, that the powers that be: foreseeing possible same-sex activity in a village filled  with men athletes (and women) who are away from their straight spouses for a week or two, do not want any easy same-sex hook up technology accessible in that village space and prefer having it blocked?

If you're alleging that somehow the Olympics governing structure prevailed on Grindr to implement this policy, then I suppose that's "within the realm of possibility." If you mean that Grindr, somehow, became "homophobic" despite its very purpose being to cater to gay/bi/curious men, then all I can say is "I don't think the company would be that fucking stupid."

1 hour ago, brnbk said:

People who come from anti-gay countries are not likely to sue Grindr for fear of being Outed. Instead if outed, they probably will have to make the choice of living openly, perhaps in a tolerant country rather than their home country where being gay is illegal, and are likely to thank their Grindr hook up in the Olympics  for helping them be Free, and themselves, finally!

Or, you know - and this is just spitballing here - being outed as gay might well get them killed back home. Especially if someone waits until after the athletes return home to out the athlete, who may not then have the means or opportunity to flee. Or maybe their families will be held hostage to ensure the athlete's return.

What's really reprehensible is that you seem to think that facilitating others exposing closeted gay athletes is so important that you'd risk their lives and well being because YOU think they should be "Free". Here's a hint: Nobody gets to fucking decide who gets outed except the person himself, unless he's actively working against the gay community while closeted. You can think (if you're capable) that everyone should be out, and that's your opinion, but you don't get to impose that on anyone else - at least, not without being a supreme asshole.

[PozBearWI]

@BootmanLA Oh man my friend.  Did you dip into my supply of curmudgeon pills????  🙂  

[versasslover]

5 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

What's really reprehensible is that you seem to think that facilitating others exposing closeted gay athletes is so important that you'd risk their lives and well being because YOU think they should be "Free". Here's a hint: Nobody gets to fucking decide who gets outed except the person himself, unless he's actively working against the gay community while closeted. You can think (if you're capable) that everyone should be out, and that's your opinion, but you don't get to impose that on anyone else - at least, not without being a supreme asshole.

I’m surprised this needs to be spelled out.

[brnbk]

7 hours ago, blackrobe said:

You managed to take my having worked on PR issues in the technology industry and extrapolated that into having worked at Grindr.

Thank you for clarifying that, but my arguments against Grindr and your support of them remain the same.

 

7 hours ago, blackrobe said:

Full disclosure: I was approached by an executive recruiter once several years ago regarding a senior position there and, knowing their history, I declined.

I wonder if your charitable view of Grindr is because you have the good fortune and privilege of choosing to say No to working with them. It is truly astounding  that more than 50% of their staff choose to resign when ordered back to Office, even though most offices in 2023 where returning back to pre-pandemic Office routines and a lot of people wanted to get back into the office routine. I wonder what was so toxic in the Grindr office than such a high percentage of their staff revolted at the very option of actually being  near each other 🙂

 

6 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

If you mean that Grindr, somehow, became "homophobic" despite its very purpose being to cater to gay/bi/curious men, then all I can say is "I don't think the company would be that fucking stupid."

A company can definitely be homophobic inspite of catering to gay/bi men. For e.g. a gay bar owner in a city and time where being gay is illegal could run a gay bar but still easily be blackmailing clients, have them robbed, get them beaten up by thugs etc, or think they are "animals" and gay sex is unnatural etc. Running a company that caters to gay/bi/curious men does not automatically exclude that firm from being homophobic. Grindr def. has a history of anti gay activities that I have mentioned earlier, and the present decission to turn of GPS /Search Explore facility in the Olympics Village is another example of it. 

Grindr comes up with stupid decission and stupid statements by their CEOs because they  are fairly conservative and believe if gay interests clash with conservative business interests, it is right that they choose the latter coz they are a "business" and not a charitable or social organization. However  most businesses nowadays recognize that business practices and decisions do have an ethical dimensions.

6 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

If you're alleging that somehow the Olympics governing structure prevailed on Grindr to implement this policy, then I suppose that's "within the realm of possibility."

 I do think that some or perhaps many  in the Olympics committee wanted it, but I honestly have no way of verifying that; only a gay insider will be able to give us some more information on who insisted on this decission, Grindr or the Olympics committee. Grindr wants gay business but not the gay issues that come with it; and is more than happy to accommodate conservative, anti gay interests. They could have very easily just put up a warning, the way they do in some anti-gay Islamic countries, that warns users of potential dangers of police entrapments and scammers etc. 

 

6 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

What's really reprehensible is that you seem to think that facilitating others exposing closeted gay athletes is so important that you'd risk their lives and well being because YOU think they should be "Free". Here's a hint: Nobody gets to fucking decide who gets outed except the person himself, unless he's actively working against the gay community while closeted. You can think (if you're capable) that everyone should be out, and that's your opinion, but you don't get to impose that on anyone else - at least, not without being a supreme asshole.

What I fail to see is how you arrived at the conclusion that I was for advocating for Outing closeted gay athletes them, when all that I was pushing  for is facilities for every male, straight identified or gay, closeted or Out, to have easy access to anonymous sex, a hook up etc, if they wish to do so. 

Anyone who want gay sex, or even sex for that matter, unfortunately, always runs the risk of being outed/exposed in his home country or in the Olympics village and thus is just the way of the world; I nor anybody else can change that. Of course the person can lower their risk by not putting up their face pic etc., but even in an anonymous/secretive encounter there is the slim risk of someone recording you/outing you

6 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

 who may not then have the means or opportunity to flee. Or maybe their families will be held hostage to ensure the athlete's return.

Unfortunately in authoritarian countries, gay men who choose to have gay sex always have such dangers dangling over their head for being gay. In that sense choosing to be gay, is indeed a choice and a brave choice for people who come from countries where it is illegal/dangerous etc. However, usually people in such countries can face such dangers anytime for other reasons as well - supporting the opposite regime, holding a different religious view, etc.  I hope you are not advocating that gay people in such countries should not want gay sex, have gay sex etc., or that they should go along with the dictates of their religious/societal leaders and give up being gay: because not so long ago even in the United States sodomy was illegal and could get you a jail sentence in most states, (please correct me if i am wrong), and yet now you have legal same sex marriage in the United States. 

 

6 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Nobody gets to fucking decide who gets outed except the person himself,

Exactly, I certainly don't and neither does Grindr! Let every athlete decide if he wants to be Out or not, and do not take that option away from them. 

Edited August 1, 2024 by brnbk
ingrained bad habit

[blackrobe]

53 minutes ago, brnbk said:

Thank you for clarifying that, but my arguments against Grindr and your support of them remain the same.

If that's what it looks like to you. Once again, I won't be engaging on your facile and specious hypotheses. Cheers.

[hntnhole]

On 7/28/2024 at 12:00 PM, BergenGuy said:

It is a business, after all

I'd guess that pre-empting problems is the root of the issue for Grindr.   

Given that intense competition is the whole purpose of the events, it's not impossible that the website could somehow be used against an athlete by another, less successful  competitor. 

I reckon that horny athletes have always been able to find each other at the Olympics - without an app.  

[BergenGuy]

17 hours ago, brnbk said:

In that sense choosing to be gay, is indeed a choice and a brave choice for people who come from countries where it is illegal/dangerous etc.

Being gay is a choice??

[BootmanLA]

On 7/31/2024 at 1:25 PM, PozBearWI said:

@BootmanLA Oh man my friend.  Did you dip into my supply of curmudgeon pills????  🙂  

I remember making a snarky comment to my 7th grade Science teacher and him turning to me to say "You think you've got everybody fooled, but not me. You look like a 12-year old kid but I know - there's a 60 year old man in there." I don't think I've ever been prouder.

[brnbk]

2 hours ago, hntnhole said:

I reckon that horny athletes have always been able to find each other at the Olympics - without an app.  

Are you sure: as old world skills like cruising - trying to find another gay man in society is a dying art, largely because many of us, me included, rely so much on technology and the internet (apps, websites) to cruise and have almost forgotten how to go about it without technology.  Slate had an interesting article about it. 

[think before following links] [think before following links] https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/06/is-cruising-for-sex-in-the-age-of-grindr-still-possible.html

 

Edited August 1, 2024 by brnbk

[brnbk]

1 hour ago, BergenGuy said:

Being gay is a choice??

if you read all of what I wrote, you will see that I meant

19 hours ago, brnbk said:

Unfortunately in authoritarian countries, gay men who choose to have gay sex always have such dangers dangling over their head for being gay. In that sense choosing to be gay, is indeed a choice and a brave choice for people who come from countries where it is illegal/dangerous etc.

in the sense that, many conservatives see homosexuality and being gay as a choice and not "natural"... and hold that gay men who have gay sex are making a choice to be gay. I was referring to the conservative view, not my view!

[BootmanLA]

19 hours ago, brnbk said:

What I fail to see is how you arrived at the conclusion that I was for advocating for Outing closeted gay athletes them, when all that I was pushing  for is facilities for every male, straight identified or gay, closeted or Out, to have easy access to anonymous sex, a hook up etc, if they wish to do so. 

Because you were insisting that Grindr enable a feature in its software that has been documented as being used as a tool to out and harm people. You'd think nobody was ever able to hook up before location-based apps existed, to read your bilge. 

19 hours ago, brnbk said:

Anyone who want gay sex, or even sex for that matter, unfortunately, always runs the risk of being outed/exposed in his home country or in the Olympics village and thus is just the way of the world; I nor anybody else can change that. Of course the person can lower their risk by not putting up their face pic etc., but even in an anonymous/secretive encounter there is the slim risk of someone recording you/outing you

A risk that is substantially enhanced if a bad actor can pinpoint your location as within the Olympic village section where the athletes are housed. NOTHING is stopping Olympic contestants from posting their location and identity in the app, if they so choose (Hi! I'm Joe Blow, famous triathlete from Wakanda! I'm at the Olympic Village, come get a piece of this!). Grindr is simply making sure that other users can access the app without, in this particular situation, having their location pinpointable by others.

19 hours ago, brnbk said:

Unfortunately in authoritarian countries, gay men who choose to have gay sex always have such dangers dangling over their head for being gay. In that sense choosing to be gay, is indeed a choice and a brave choice for people who come from countries where it is illegal/dangerous etc.

Being gay is not a choice. Sorry, but it's hard to take anyone seriously when he makes a stupid statement like that.

19 hours ago, brnbk said:

I hope you are not advocating that gay people in such countries should not want gay sex, have gay sex etc., or that they should go along with the dictates of their religious/societal leaders and give up being gay: because not so long ago even in the United States sodomy was illegal and could get you a jail sentence in most states, (please correct me if i am wrong), and yet now you have legal same sex marriage in the United States. 

Did I say something that stupid? No, I did not. You can rest assured that when I am advocating something, I say it clearly and distinctly, and you need not try to put words in my mouth (because I will definitely call you out on it). As for your statement about sodomy: It was illegal in fewer than 20% of the states by the time the Supreme Court struck it down, and in most of those, no one had been prosecuted under those laws in decades.

19 hours ago, brnbk said:

Exactly, I certainly don't and neither does Grindr! Let every athlete decide if he wants to be Out or not, and do not take that option away from them. 

No one is taking away the option to be "out", including Grindr. What Grindr is doing is blocking the ability of OTHER PEOPLE to out people who do not wish to be out. Why this basic concept seems to be outside your sphere of comprehension is beyond me. 

[brnbk]

On 7/31/2024 at 8:40 PM, brnbk said:

Unfortunately in authoritarian countries, gay men who choose to have gay sex always have such dangers dangling over their head for being gay. In that sense choosing to be gay, is indeed a choice and a brave choice for people who come from countries where it is illegal/dangerous etc.

8 hours ago, BergenGuy said:

Being gay is a choice??

6 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Being gay is not a choice. Sorry, but it's hard to take anyone seriously when he makes a stupid statement like that.

I wanted to add that for some reason, I notice my lines are being read as if I had said that being gay was a choice i.e. gay men just choose to be gay and can be straight if they choose, whereas what I wanted to say was that gay men in homophobic countries when they have gay sex are making the brave choice of being gay i.e.  true to themselves. I am wondering if this confusion is because in US English, you would say,  In this sense rather than in that sense, and thus the sentence would read:  In this sense choosing to be gay, is indeed a choice and a brave choice for people who come from countries where it is illegal/dangerous etc.

[hntnhole]

On 7/31/2024 at 2:25 PM, PozBearWI said:

@BootmanLA Oh man my friend.  Did you dip into my supply of curmudgeon pills????

I don't think it was your bottle .... MINE seems a little emptier than usual !!! 😁

[hntnhole]

On 7/31/2024 at 8:40 PM, brnbk said:

brave choice

I respectfully disagree: 

Whether we're "gay" or not is not a choice, it's an inborn, naturally achieved inclination.  The only "choice" involved, is whether we accept our nature and act upon that inclination or not.

In some parts of the world, some may feel repressed enough (culturally, religiously, whatever) to avoid their truth, and pretend to be what they're not (or worse, foreswear any sexual activity at all). That's not an invalid choice, it's merely a choice somewhere on the scale of regrettable-to-tragic.