Classic Trump

[PozBearWI]

18 hours ago, BlackDude said:

People like to know what party people represent because that usually gives them a good idea of their Ideology and what agenda they’re going to follow.
 

I don’t think there’s any wrong with black voters asking her ethnicity because like the political parties, many of us have our ideology and agenda, and we need to see if hers aligns with ours.

There are ONLY two agendas being floated by the presidential candidates in 2024.  One is towards a dictatorship, the other to continue our largely successful attempt at democracy.  A whole lot of us will NOT get alignment this time with our ideology and agendas.  But with the right choice, we get a chance in future elections.  

[BlackDude]

5 hours ago, NEDenver said:

Are you actually a white straight Russian troll?  Because that’s exactly what a white straight Russian troll on Xitter would say.

Is that what Joy Reid told you?

[norefusal]

21 minutes ago, BlackDude said:

Is that what Joy Reid told you?

haha

like fox and cnn etc msnbc delivers a consistent and rehearsed message: all night long from nicole to lawrence it's the same. 

the fact that you chose to single out the black woman as the one who shouldn't be trusted really doesn't help present you as non prejudicial given the context of this discussion. 

but whatevs 

[tallslenderguy]

1 hour ago, norefusal said:

well, i suppose all minorities are unique but while i 100% agree with those saying it has nothing to do w credibility or qualifications, i also realize the topic is triggering to me due to my own past. 

the "gay community" is a mess when it comes to inclusion and in particular its lack of acceptance of bisexuality and the toxic attitude of " there are no bisexual men, only gays in denial". 

it also goes back to my early childhood when we moved to the #2 state with the largest % of italian americans. we were literally the very first family on the block that was not 100% italian american and our new neighbors openly spoke of it often, telling us to our faces that we weren't real italian americans.

you don't get over these kinds of blatant rejections easily. that's just my perspective. 

First off, i'm sorry for the marks and effects "blatant rejections" have caused with you. Truly.

Apparently being gay is not a cure for ego or ethnocentricity that leads to such notions and attitudes. i've thought and wondered about this through the years, especially after processing out of a religion that had conditioned me from an early age to think of my gay self as "sick and sinful."  i found a lot of gay guys with religious backgrounds end up in a similar religious setting that accepts, and even affirms, their being gay, but still keeps a lot of the same ideas and attitudes. 

i believe a lack of inclusion can often, though, be traced back to ego/ethnocentricity.  There seems to be an almost natural inclination for us to treat our own ideas, notions, feelings as universal reality. Even after we leave Kansas and realize there's a whole other world out there, it often just broadens the scope of our ego/ethnocentricity.  And, i think a lot of those centricity's fly under the radar, that our self is not aware of them, that we derive a sense of security from what we feel we know.  

It takes a whole lot more effort to live with our eyes and ears open, always looking and listening to see and hear what is vs reaching a conclusion and applying it universally.  And, as a consequence, we miss seeing and being able to accept and connect with the "bisexual" (or_________), in front of us because we cling to our ego/ethnocentric ideas over what our eyes and ears reveal in the moment. ❤️

[BlackDude]

20 minutes ago, norefusal said:

haha

like fox and cnn etc msnbc delivers a consistent and rehearsed message: all night long from nicole to lawrence it's the same. 

the fact that you chose to single out the black woman as the one who shouldn't be trusted really doesn't help present you as non prejudicial given the context of this discussion. 

but whatevs 

Another democratic talking point. If your black man, and question Kamala, it’s patriarchy and you’re attacking black women 🤣

[norefusal]

29 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

First off, i'm sorry for the marks and effects "blatant rejections" have caused with you. Truly.

Apparently being gay is not a cure for ego or ethnocentricity that leads to such notions and attitudes. i've thought and wondered about this through the years, especially after processing out of a religion that had conditioned me from an early age to think of my gay self as "sick and sinful."  i found a lot of gay guys with religious backgrounds end up in a similar religious setting that accepts, and even affirms, their being gay, but still keeps a lot of the same ideas and attitudes. 

i believe a lack of inclusion can often, though, be traced back to ego/ethnocentricity.  There seems to be an almost natural inclination for us to treat our own ideas, notions, feelings as universal reality. Even after we leave Kansas and realize there's a whole other world out there, it often just broadens the scope of our ego/ethnocentricity.  And, i think a lot of those centricity's fly under the radar, that our self is not aware of them, that we derive a sense of security from what we feel we know.  

It takes a whole lot more effort to live with our eyes and ears open, always looking and listening to see and hear what is vs reaching a conclusion and applying it universally.  And, as a consequence, we miss seeing and being able to accept and connect with the "bisexual" (or_________), in front of us because we cling to our ego/ethnocentric ideas over what our eyes and ears reveal in the moment. ❤️

and being over sensitive can be part of the problem. 

if, like so many of us, you come from a place where being gay is unacceptable. once you come out and seek out other gays you foolishly believe will automatically accept you, the rejection is palpable. anything as silly as not getting into a trendy club because you're not hot enough or wear the wrong clothes happens to everyone, gay or straight.  but to someone freshly plucking up the courage to show up to a gay club for the first time? ouch 

[tallslenderguy]

12 minutes ago, norefusal said:

and being over sensitive can be part of the problem. 

if, like so many of us, you come from a place where being gay is unacceptable. once you come out and seek out other gays you foolishly believe will automatically accept you, the rejection is palpable. anything as silly as not getting into a trendy club because you're not hot enough or wear the wrong clothes happens to everyone, gay or straight.  but to someone freshly plucking up the courage to show up to a gay club for the first time? ouch 

i love your response. i see you as part of the solution, and i think you are spot on with this. we struggle and finally find place of self acceptance, only to find the world is still  largely the same place, whether it's the gay community part of 'the world' or church, or __________.

 It's so fascinating, we don't even think about it, but after that struggle of coming to a place of self acceptance, we transfer that self acceptance, then our feelings (more than our cognition) wonder that others have not come to that place of accepting our self. 

To me, what you express is maturity. As you note, all people experience this, it's not a gay or straight thing, it's a people thing. To me the question and challenge becomes how we respond.  For me, it makes me more aware and helps me to see when i am doing this and it helps me keep my eyes open to spot it when it happens instead of just going on automatic pilot. 

[hntnhole]

32 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

To me the question and challenge becomes how we respond

Perfectly said.  It's what we do that counts.  

[BootmanLA]

I suppose that if one believes that one ONLY votes for someone whom you absolutely support, then voting third party or not voting makes a certain amount of sense. I call this the masturbatory method of candidate selection: you go with the one who makes you feel really, really good, for a brief moment when you're casting that vote. And like any other masturbatory moment, it passes, and you don't get to feel that way again for another four years. It's incredibly self-centered but hey, people are allowed to be self-centered. Certainly Trump is.

If one cares about the actual results, however - given that either A or B is going to be in office, then the responsible civic thing is to vote for the candidate you feel will be better than the other, even if you're unexcited about him/her.

I'm in the latter camp. I'm not going to tell anyone that they can't belong to the first group, but I am going to remind those people every fucking minute if the worse candidate scrapes by into office, whenever they complain about ANYTHING that administration is doing.

[NEDenver]

11 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

I suppose that if one believes that one ONLY votes for someone whom you absolutely support, then voting third party or not voting makes a certain amount of sense. I call this the masturbatory method of candidate selection:

I call it being bad at math.  Sometimes, maybe, it’s being easily manipulated.  Voting for a third party only makes it easier for the main party further from one’s own ideology to win.  Therefore, it’s only a good strategy for right wingers who want to vote for libertarians or constitutional conservative minor parties.

[hntnhole]

Our system of government depends on the act of choosing politicians, which is obviously a personal and confidential act.  While it's true that we're (usually) spared having to add cultural fervor into the mix, the fact remains that we can vote for whoever we feel is best for the nation, and reflects our own world-view the most.  

It's a good thing that we have the ability to share our views, consider the views of others, and arrive at what seems the most intelligent choice for leaders.  Everyone gets the same measure of respect, regardless of how "hot" the discourse gets.  If, however, we believe that angry or judgmental arguments/counter arguments/counter-counter arguments will further convince those who believe other than what we personally believe, the process of electoral coming to choices tends to turn sour.  

Speaking only for myself, I very much enjoy the discourse on many topics and issues of the day here on BZ with guys I've never met, yet share an important personal link with.  Politics is always interesting to me, as well as countless other guys here, but it's always best to exchange viewpoints in a positive and embracing way.  If we devolve into a "can you top this" type of discourse, we all lose the benefit of considering other's viewpoints dispassionately.  

Even when we're diametrically opposed to other's views, we can at least maintain some measure of good will in that discourse.  I know I've read & re-read my own contributions (before) clicking "submit", and often revise the more scintillating (and blunt) text, in favor of a less inflammatory flavor.  

Wouldn't it be cool if every single guy on BZ could spend Election Night in some giant hotel, rawfucking each other (after we've voted, of course), and no guy would even know until the next the last Hole had been fucked full, the last pair of balls drained,  who won? 🤗 

[topblkmale]

2 hours ago, hntnhole said:

 

Wouldn't it be cool if every single guy on BZ could spend Election Night in some giant hotel, rawfucking each other (after we've voted, of course), and no guy would even know until the next the last Hole had been fucked full, the last pair of balls drained,  who won? 🤗 

 

 

Would be interesting. In a place like Crew Club DC...or that last remaining bathhouse in Philadelphia.

 

[NWUSHorny]

3 hours ago, hntnhole said:

Wouldn't it be cool if every single guy on BZ could spend Election Night in some giant hotel, rawfucking each other (after we've voted, of course), and no guy would even know until the next the last Hole had been fucked full, the last pair of balls drained,  who won? 🤗 

Awesome idea, an after poll, pole the hole party. I will of course want to pole a large sample of holes and allow all of the poles include my hole in their pole sample.

[meetme]

I disagree, I feel the stakes of these one are too high to be taken lightly. I couldn’t bear to watch a play by play of results but would want to know as soon as it was called. Then the bad loser files lawsuit after lawsuit but I pray we will be rid of him one day. 

[BootmanLA]

On 8/1/2024 at 6:18 PM, BlackDude said:

Well, we have a fundamental disagreement. Because if Trump is so bad and so evil, which I believe he is, then the burden should be on the opposing candidate to earn my vote.  

If you believe he's bad and evil, then do you also believe you have zero responsibility to help stop him from becoming president again? Or do you think you get to be a free rider, hoping everyone else will make sure he doesn't get into office, but not being willing to sully yourself by voting for a less-than-perfect alternative?