rawTOP

Right - a country with universal publicly provided healthcare would be ideal, but it could work elsewhere too... One of the rooms could be set up as a live cam room, though there should always be a bottom available off camera. It could either be on one of the paid cam chat sites or if you got really into it - could be a dedicated site like the college house cam sites that are out there - cocodorm, fatpad, etc. Personally if I were running the house I'd require the bottoms to do porn with the proceeds going to household finances.

This thread is (supposed to be) about PrEP... To me the biggest argument against PrEP is that they want you to take pills for the rest of your life so you can avoid taking pills for the rest of your life. The logic of it just doesn't make sense.

Right... It's about devoting your life to getting fucked.

Not exactly. I'm saying that a life with zero risk isn't one many of us would ever want to live. Stop telling us to live it.

KinkyFucker - The problem is that those studies only say that 1) people are more comfortable barebacking with people who are undetectable, 2) that undetectable in blood doesn't mean undetectable in other areas and 2) that mathematical models say that HIV transmission should be possible with people who are undetectable. To which I say "so what"? The biggest fallacy is your conclusions are based on the notion that no risk is acceptable. People just don't live their lives that way. We take risks all the time. Crossing the street is a risk. I could trip and fall and get run over by a bus, but I still cross the street. The Swiss Statement was within that context. They acknowledged that HIV transmission risk wasn't zero but basically said it was low enough that it shouldn't be a concern. It's an issue of priorities. Smoking is killing 5 times more gay men yet there isn't nearly the stigma around that, why? Poz guys on meds need to understand that they're not the source of the rise in HIV infection rates (they're shooting blanks). The stigma of sero-discordant sex with undetectable guys needs to be lifted. The problem today is that people are finding out too late that they're poz - after damage as been done. But people aren't getting tested because of the stigma and fear. When you focus on studies like the ones you cite you perpetuate that stigma and fear and make the real problem worse. If you want to bring down the HIV infection rate get people tested - it's guys who think they're neg who are causing most of the infections. If you want to reduce AIDS related deaths get people tested before HIV does damage to their bodies. And deal with issues like substance abuse that are central to risk taking and guys not taking their meds...

No. I'm right... Condoms are only 90 to 95% effective - see the study that's attached to this post... http://breeding.zone/threads/2855-How-Risky-Is-Barebacking-Per-incident-risk-quantified... Of course that 5 to 10% gap gets reduced because people don't, on average, get pozzed on the first fuck - even with a poz top who's not taking meds, but the point is there's still risk and condoms don't bring it down to zero. Bottom line, there is no such thing as safe sex with a poz top who's not on meds. Yes, the Swiss Statement said being consistently undetectable puts you close to zero risk. The idea that pills are more effective than condoms (and no pills) was studied and discussed at this year's International AIDS Conference... http://breeding.zone/threads/3993-ARVs-Better-Than-Condoms-Immune-Therapies-amp-Therapeutic-Vaccines Of course, being on meds and using condoms is the lowest risk.... BTW, contradicting anything HungLatinDom says about science is foolish - he understands the science behind all this stuff far better than most of us.

Wow. Thanks for sharing that... I guess my question is what's at the root of your depression? I know so many poz guys who are living productive, purposeful lives - just being poz doesn't mean everything has to fall apart. Do you feel like you're worth less or life isn't worth living because you're poz? I see a fair number of poz guys who can't seem to stay in relationships and wonder if stuff like that isn't at the root of it - that they don't feel like they deserve happiness. But then I know poz guys who don't let it get to them or define who they are and they have great long-term relationships. (And then there are poz guys who have no interest in relationships and are completely happy that way - but it doesn't seem you're wired that way). Just as gay men used to (and some degree still do) have to come out of the closet and take pride in being gay. It seems to me it would help if you were able to accept being poz and take pride in who you are as a person. It seems you'd really benefit by seeing yourself as a wonderful, valuable person who deserves a fair measure of good things in his life. Being poz didn't change who you are. It's an obstacle - nothing more. You're still the same person you always were. Learn to love yourself. ----- To everyone else... Stories like Tatttooed Bottom Guy's are the reason why I say understand and accept the risks of barebacking before you bareback. If you understand and accept the risks your less likely to fall apart when you test poz. It's also the reason why I'm rather angry at mainstream culture and medical professionals. Being poz is so horribly stigmatized that people genuinely feel life isn't worth living after testing poz when that's totally not true. It's very similar to the homophobia that drives gay teens to have really high rates of suicide. Both are based on attitudes which are just false and they're literally killing us.

BREEDmeRAW's fantasy of a house where a bunch of bareback pigs live got me thinking... This is also sorta related to the whole Cumdump Network idea people have been discussing... It makes sense to me that bottoms band together and create houses/apartments where tops can drop by at any time and there will be at least one hole available to fuck. It would sorta be like a brothel, only the tops wouldn't have to pay. I mean drug addicts have crack houses, why can't there be the same idea for sex? Logistically it could be a bit complicated... The guys would probably have to work (unless they're on disability). Which means work schedules would need to be coordinated so someone's available 24/7/365. And there would probably need to be a master/madame sorta figure who makes sure things run smoothly. But wouldn't it be cool to know there's always a place you can go when you need to drop a load?

You should add one saying you'll get tested for STDs regularly and get them cleaned up as quickly as possible.

Damn you're hot! LA is lucky to have you...

If the poz partner is on meds and undetectable that alone is more effective than using condoms (and not being on meds). I still wouldn't suggest it in that case - just too much risk in side effects to the neg guy. I'd recommend condoms actually... Condoms plus meds for the poz guy is pretty much bullet proof. I'd only really suggest it if they desperately want to bareback and the poz guy is the top in the relationship. And the problem with the 3rd world is getting a constant supply of meds to the neg woman. IF that can be achieved (it's unlikely in the 3rd world) then it's a good idea. Prostitutes in urban areas would be a good group for PrEP - they're very high risk and being in an urban area means they probably have access to adequate healthcare and can get the meds on a regular basis. Rural women are a much bigger challenge.

PEP is only a good idea sometimes... I'm in favor of it for health care professionals who get stuck with dirty needles. I'm in favor of it when guys are trying to be safe and the condom breaks when there's a poz top involved. But I'm not in favor of it when the bottom made a premeditated choice to bareback 'cause they're going to make the same choice again and it's stupid to keep running to the emergency room in a panic every time they have sex. But agreed - PrEP is always a bad idea.

It's called PrEP and IMHO it's a horrible idea... Over a year ago I wrote a whole blog post on how bad of an idea I thought it was... http://www.rawtop.com/blog/2009-09/prep-is-a-really-horrible-idea Short version - I'm not in favor of giving healthy people powerful toxic drugs that have serious side effects. If the person doesn't take the meds properly they can build up a resistance to medication they made need later. I also think the impetus for it comes out of a place of fear shame and guilt. Of course it's a personal decision, but after literally 2+ decades of doctors wanting to treat me for a condition I didn't have (including powerful drugs with side effects and two life threatening operations) - I don't trust any doctor who wants to aggressively treat people who are perfectly healthy. I hope the insurance companies will refuse to pay for the medications... That would put a quick stop to the idea.

Admin Note: This is sorta a borderline conversation... As long as it stays focused on the issues surrounding "don't cum in my ass" and you don't get into advocating stealthing particular guys, we should be fine. (So far the discussion is on the right track)... These days I don't hookup with guys who don't want my load in their ass. Back before I started being clear about wanting to dump a load there were a few bottoms who asked me to pullout and cum on their ass or back while I was fucking them. I'd dump half the load in their ass and half on their back or ass. I always thought it was funny when they'd thank me for pulling out when they had half my load in their ass... I mean seriously - did they think they wouldn't get at least some cum or precum in their ass? It's not like pulling out is effective for birth control - and it's not effective at preventing HIV either. I was neg, so didn't really worry that I was harming them - I was more amused at how careless they were being. Honestly, the whole "dumb fuck" thing is sorta hot, but the flip side is that too often the sex with guys like that is just bad...

Hmmm... Yeah, I'm on the other side of that equation... Always wanted a slave/boy I could own. But the logistics and reality of it are complicated. Finding a guy who really is that submissive, and the reality of it is you can't be sexual 24 hours a day (at least not as a top), and then there's stuff like health insurance which the slave would need if he's being a cumdump. But in terms of fantasies - it's a big fantasy...

I like that distinction - the cumhole is the body part, the cumhole is the person... Makes sense...

There's a lot of overlap between the terms cumhole and cumdump, but I think there are still times when one is a more appropriate term than the other... Just wondering if I've got it right... To me a cumdump is more public, "take any load" than a cumhole. You can be your boyfriend's private cumhole, but you're a public cumdump. What do you think? Is there a difference?

I'm going to test a map-based location feature next month.

I think the issue is that there's more to talk about when barebacking is sleazy and edgy. Romantic barebacking is what it is - everyone understands it and it's sorta just taken for granted. But sleazy barebacking is just more titillating and there's more to discuss...

I completely understand the whole fantasy aspect and the fiction section has tons of stories about stealth breeding. To me there's a difference between a movie about robbing a train and actually robbing a train (or advocating or planning an actual robbery)... As adults we should understand the difference.

I'm putting this in the general forum 'cause I want to explain to the people who are turned off by bug chasing why I allow it on the site. Eventually I'll move the thread into the backroom, but I think it's worth a broader discussion initially... A friend of mine in the porn business took offense when I said his traffic wasn't all that raunchy compared to mine. He said he had lots of "rough looking men, fetish including fisting, piss etc." on his sites. But to me things like fisting are pretty mainstream these days. I then related to him some of the challenges of moderating this forum - how some of you cross the line and advocate stealth breeding of unwilling neg bottoms. The idea that I'm promoting bug chasing and gift giving freaked my friend out a bit and so I felt compelled to try to explain it to him in a way he could understand. Here's what I wrote him... ----- I see the whole bug chasing gift giving thing much the same way I see BDSM. Much of "the standard raunchy stuff" you mention works on the basis that sex is about power and control / domination and submission. While romantic sex is put on a pedestal, domination and submission is still quite normal though they're often misunderstood. Still, if you do a BDSM activity to someone who doesn't consent the act becomes rape. The fact that there are scenarios in which the act is rape doesn't mean the other forms of it are evil. Hell, romantic sex can also turn into rape if there isn't consent. Giving and receiving cum is also incredibly natural and normal. I think it's actually quite deep in our psyche. Humans are the dominant species on our planet because we have the drive to procreate. There are bottoms who can't imagine asking a top to use a condom - either because they're submissive or because they crave cum - both impulses are quite normal. Those bottoms have two choices - ignore the fact that they probably will become HIV+ and "just let it happen", or embrace the whole process. I actually respect the people who embrace it more. For them it's a conscious, thoughtful decision. But they're called bug chasers and told to be ashamed of their impulses. To me the problem is the general stigma around bug chasing and gift giving. It's created an environment where all bug chasing and gift giving are seen as wrong (and sometimes illegal). People used to see BDSM in the same light. But there's a difference and consent is the dividing line between the two sides... I don't mind being associated with bug chasing because I see it as something that's normal and natural and done quite thoughtfully. My challenge on the forum are the psychos who think that there's no difference between the criminal form and the normal form. The fact that many gay guys stigmatize all forms of bug chasing and don't draw a distinction between the two types doesn't help... ----- I've had a number of you complain 'cause I temporarily ban you for advocating stealth breeding. In some cases the line is crossed inadvertently - to you they're fantasy scenarios but they seem a bit too real to the rest of us. But I don't apologize for drawing the line and enforcing the distinction. If that bothers you, then you need to go to another site... But for all of you who who've made the decision to be a bug chaser, and all you poz tops who want to help them on their quest - this site is meant to be a safe haven for you... Still, I need the whole bug chasing / gift giving discussion to be off in it's own private area on the site ("the backroom") for a few reasons... One is to keep it away from the eyes of the general public who don't understand it. And two is because it's a turn off for some guys and I want this to be a site they enjoy too... Thoughts?

Any chance you're a PHP/MySQL coder? That's primarily what I need...

I'd be willing to do it, but it would be sometime next year. I've got a lot of other projects on my plate right now...

Yeah, in order to let the bloggers take down the images in one place and have them taken down everywhere, I hotlink images - I don't copy them to my server. Unfortunately it's a global policy - I can't change it on a case by case basis...

You got into the bareback community at 19 (after some experimentation earlier), which is sorta what I'd like to see more of. Thing is, it seems most young guys wait a few more years to really get into the bareback community (if they do at all). How do we make sure that when a guy hits 18 he gets the pro-bareback message loud and clear? Should we alter how we do our marketing to get the message to 18 and 19 year olds more effectively? So far what I'm hearing is 1) mobile and 2) good design. BTW, because of comments on this thread (and my own personal experience not having stuff to jack off to on my iPhone), I've moved forward my plans for a mobile site. At least initially it will be completely focused on mobile users (not just regular site that's mobile friendly). HTML5 + CSS3, plus tricks to detect and adapt to whether the mobile device is in landscape or portrait mode, etc. I also am putting it on a .mobi domain in part because I could get a better domain name than I could with .com...