Tops: Let's Be Honest About "staying Negative"

[donkeyboy]

Hey bros,

 

I made the decision to bareback in 2011 and well, as they say, no way back. Been barebacking ever since and I've noticed how pretty much nobody uses condoms right now. I was fucking a poz bottom dude for a while last year.

 

Got tested recently: negative.

 

Have met a lot of total tops who bareback and none of them are poz, really! I only know vers and bottom guys who are poz.

 

I can be a very aggressive fucker and the sessions gets as raunchy as the bottom is willing to it get.

 

Keep on reading articles about how risky bareback topping is but anecdotes from guys I've met and going through forums, chat, etc. Tells me it really takes a while for a top to go seroconvert.

 

Each time I get tested I'm not all worried about the results. It's just routine. How could I be surprised or unsettled by a positive result if I've been barebacking for so long? Also, all the poz guys I know just take their pill(s) and that is it. They don't even get a cold. Have not met anyone having all those "horrible side effects" people (especially sex counsellors) talk about or post on the internet.

 

So what's your story if your a top barebacker and have remained negative for long?

 

Also, some poz guys I've fucked have not been on pills so their viral load I can guess is not "undetectable."

 

Is it the vaseline? I use vaseline a lot. I was wondering if it becomes a sort of coat protecting your cock's skin. I know I can fuck or jerk off for hours using vaseline and not get irritated at all which is something that doesn't happen with water-based or silicone-based lubricants.

 

I am not immune and this is not about being a top because you remain negative or whatever. I don't care. I'm just wondering and I've become quite suspicious about medical articles claiming bareback topping as high risk. HIV counsellors usually try to alarm saying all kinds of stuff. So I wonder about the gap between clinical literature and the sex experts' discourse on HIV infection risk and what I've been living and the people I've met, and so on.

 

What's your story? What's your opinion?

 

Have to say it again. This is not about feeling good about being a top and remaining HIV negative because of that and of course this should not be taken as any sort of put-down to bottoms or versatile  guys who are HIV positive. I've fucked plenty of HIV positive dudes and I don't mind. I don't mind HIV, I just wonder about the top/bottom HIV risk discourse sustained by the healthcare establishment and STD counselling, etc. Also wondering what could be it about remaining negative for long and am curious to hear more stories similar to mine.

 

Thanks!

[slowfuck]

To my mind the Vaseline would form a barrier much like an thin condom, and could coat the opening of the urethra too, but of course allow the top to seed the bottom, and some Vaseline could also transfer the bottoms hole so forming an internal barrier where it transferred to the bottom's rectum.

I do suspect that a lot of the infection of tops probably takes place because they don't use lube at all so using any lube would reduce the risk. Silicon lube coats the cock like Vaseline but less of a barrier I suspect as it's so relatively thin.

[ Puts Vaseline on the shopping list. ]

[seaguy]

The most risk is when your topping rough and the bottom starts to bleed and you keep fucking because during rough sex sometimes the ass juices for lack of a better term can get into your penis via your piss hole and if there is blood that could lead to you getting infected.  

[sarutobi]

I'd say I've worn a condom about half the time that I've topped guys. I've used condoms every time I've bottomed (only twice). I use a lot of lube and I love foreplay. I'm also not into rough sex. I'm guessing that's what's kept me from getting HIV so far.

 

I'm betting a lot of the counselors play up the risks in order to keep people aware. There are millions of gay men, most of them old enough to have lived through the 1980s when HIV/AIDS hit. Most guys didn't wear condoms back then, yet most of them are still alive. I think that pretty much shows that even though there is a risk for getting HIV, there's more going on than just a single bareback fuck. I know there are plenty of guys who got it their first time. I'm just saying that HIV probably isn't the "one bare fuck and you're done" nemesis its been made out to be.

[FelchingPisser]

I don't believe HIV crawls up your urethra.  The virus needs to find a break in the skin...so, yes,lots of lube is very important, especially if you give long, hard fucks. For the last six years, I play almost exclusively with HIV undetectable men but I have fucked many men of unknown status and I am still negative. 

[seaguy]

I don't believe HIV crawls up your urethra.  The virus needs to find a break in the skin...so, yes,lots of lube is very important, especially if you give long, hard fucks. For the last six years, I play almost exclusively with HIV undetectable men but I have fucked many men of unknown status and I am still negative. 

The insertive partner is also at some risk because the membranes inside the urethra can provide entry for HIV into the bloodstream. The presence of other sexually transmitted infections can increase the risk of HIV transmission during anal sex.

 

http://www.mnaidsproject.org/education/educate-yourself/hiv-transmission.php

[FelchingPisser]

The insertive partner is also at some risk because the membranes inside the urethra can provide entry for HIV into the bloodstream. The presence of other sexually transmitted infections can increase the risk of HIV transmission during anal sex.

 

http://www.mnaidsproject.org/education/educate-yourself/hiv-transmission.php

My doctor handed something similar to read.  He then added that he thought trauma likely still had to be present--which is why I said what I said.  It seems to have been borne out in my case.  There are no 100 percents in anything medical.

[seaguy]

My doctor handed something similar to read.  He then added that he thought trauma likely still had to be present--which is why I said what I said.  It seems to have been borne out in my case.  There are no 100 percents in anything medical.

Yeah seems pretty rare and would have to be I imagine fucking with no lube or very little which would create more friction and kind of flare the pee hole as the cock is going in.

[donkeyboy]

Maybe "being cut" also plays a role? Who knows.

 

I always hear about people hearing about guys getting infected the first time they top raw but I've never met one myself.

 

The urethra infection risk even as it is handed to you by a doctor or counsellor, sounds so, so unlikely. I've only met one counsellor who told me "I am not supposed to say this but the urethra infection is a hypothesis and a poor one." Something along the lines.

 

Guys who never bottom (including not sucking cock) and who bareback, I only know negatives and they fuck poz guys all the time or well, it's a don't ask don't tell thing and they remain negative.

 

I think asking questions about someone's status or viral load is at least as off-putting, off-turning as the condom negotiation thing. Again, fear comes into play and you can't quite play. IMHO

[seaguy]

Studies have shown that being cut reduces the risk something about the skin that they cut away and it being easily penetrated by the virus so having it cut away during circumcision gives the virus one smaller or less place it might be able to enter.  To put it in laymans terms.

[sarutobi]

Studies have shown that being cut reduces the risk something about the skin that they cut away and it being easily penetrated by the virus so having it cut away during circumcision gives the virus one smaller or less place it might be able to enter.  To put it in laymans terms.

 

Those studies weren't completed. I'm skeptical about them anyway because many men in the U.S., especially black men, are cut, yet there's still a high rate of new infections. If being cut added such great protection, you'd think there'd be higher HIV rates in uncut populations, like in Europe. But there isn't. There are far higher rates in places where a large part of the male community is cut. Many African countries practice circumcision, but they also have high HIV rates. So something's off about those results. Even then, the best thing would be to teach boys how to clean themselves, not cut off their foreskin.

[wood]

Those studies weren't completed. I'm skeptical about them anyway because many men in the U.S., especially black men, are cut, yet there's still a high rate of new infections. If being cut added such great protection, you'd think there'd be higher HIV rates in uncut populations, like in Europe. But there isn't. There are far higher rates in places where a large part of the male community is cut. Many African countries practice circumcision, but they also have high HIV rates. So something's off about those results. Even then, the best thing would be to teach boys how to clean themselves, not cut off their foreskin.

 

in regards to black men int he US having higher rate of HIV infection, its a multifaceted issue, and circumcision is most likely not a driving force.  

 

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/pressure_to_conform_to_masculine_norms_may_fuel_hiv_risk_among_gay_black_men

http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/black_MSM_1667_23687.shtml

 

While condomless insertive sex isnt low risk, for circumcised men who use plenty of lube, shower after sex, dont have sex with guys with sores, etc  and exclusively top, its lower than one would think.  Yes it can happen, but its nowhere near the risk of bottoming.  

 

For the cut vs uncut debate, the simple fact is the skin under the foreskin is much more sensitive, prone to minute tears, and traps pathogens.  Thats why they are higher risk.    

[FelchingPisser]

 

 

For the cut vs uncut debate, the simple fact is the skin under the foreskin is much more sensitive, prone to minute tears, and traps pathogens.  Thats why they are higher risk.    

 

This is what I was always told.

[wyleymike]

I have been poz since it was a death sentence. I was tested in 1995 but I didn't need to test. I knew. I was almost 100% bottom from my young teens up till my early 30s. When they did my results we called them TCells and viral loads were not understood yet...but if you had under 200 you were considered as no longer poz but having AIDS and 137 Tcells meant that I should prepare for the worst. Meanwhile, based on those Tcells my viral conversion was long before my diagnosis.  The short version is that I had a partner who was a Top only, we fucked daily and used Abolene, mineral oil based grease..my partner pozzed by dipping into the toxic well...me. I had been hooking up on the side with a few married guys and bi college guys...all tops and all poz. Maybe they bottomed in secret but I'm sure not.  

 

I know that the original safe sex guidelines were dripping with lies and misconceptions.There have or had never been a conversion from giving head and swallowing. Even if you had sores or cuts in your mouth or a throat infection...our saliva and digestive systems are so intense and the retro-virus is pretty fragile and needs a particularly safe, moist and absorbent entry. The colon is just that medium, as is the vaginal area.. There have been many cases of str8 men who got it from that damned pussy that all of us have told them will kill them!

 

I have no facts to substantiate my experience at this time. I'm going research get back here.

 

One more thing, tearing the fuck walls or bleeding hemorrhoids may be a possible risk if the cock is also torn but most bleeding wouldn't convert a top.  I have shared bloody slams with neg guys on many occasions and nothing happened to them. Maybe that guy was the exception to the rule.  DO NOT use petroleum jelly for fucking.. it will not provide a barrier like a condom... and petroleum jelly is made of refine oil which is why it's called petroleum. It has no place inside a body.. and will cause digestive problems if it builds up...use it for the lips  on your face or chapped hands..not on the cock! 

 

Anyone who chooses to barebacking needs to consider that everyone else is poz and accept the probability of transmission. Tops fucking guys should accept that too since you might be  low risk but never know. Now with the dawn of PrEP, there are other choices. 

 

Thanks for letting me blab

-wMike

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

Of course Mike, that hot furry body of yours would make me put all caution aside! :-)