So, do we discuss Kevin Spacey here - or ignore him?

[garsento]

14 minutes ago, Conjack10 said:

I love Kevin Spacey. He is incredibly talented and sexy and I'd suck his cock and eat his cum in a minute but he really fucked up on this one.

MeatSeeker is absolutely right. It is illegal and also wrong for a grown man to proposition or be at all sexual with a 14 year old boy (or girl,etc.) It is never ok. It may be something that some of us fantasize about but it is not right for adults to be sexual with minors. Never. Even when it does occur and both parties enjoy it, it is still wrong and it causes harm to the adolescent because it forces them to have to deal with sex and sexuality at an age when they lack the sophistication to do so appropriately. It leads to all sorts of psycho-sexual pathologies and other psychological problems. Some members on this site will say that they had same sex experiences when they were minors and that they really enjoyed it. Well, it may have felt good and even felt appropriate at that age but you wouldn't give booze to a 14 year old or cocaine even though those drugs might feel good too.  Until a person is between 18 and 21 they lack the mental maturity necessary to make reliable judgments about sex. Of course, some kids mature faster but frankly they are not harmed by waiting until they reach the age of majority. As Phil Hartman said on SNL when playing Frank Sinatra talking to a forlorned Woody Allen in the midst of the Soon yi Previn scandal, "Woodcut, if I told you once I've told you a thousand times, keep your mits off of the kinder. I get tempted too myself sometimes but I take my business to the john. Because when you're a one man band nobody gets hurt!!"

They interviewed another person, an anonymous man who was 14 when Spacey started an affair with him, two years after Spacey met him at a training camp for young actors. By the man's own account, at the time the kid was in a bad state, caught up in a relationship with a much older cousin and with parents who did nothing. It's not at all clear to me how Spacey opting for someone so young, someone he met at such a young age when he was in a position of authority and someone not able to make these decisions, could ever be ethical.

But then, by that man's account, Spacey ended up trying to rape him. So, well.

I'm especially angry by the way Spacey tried to throw gay (and bi, and queer) men under a train in his apology. The idea of fucking someone 14 years old, especially someone who only had reason to think I was being friendly and collegial, makes me very upset. I don't try to take advantage of people. Spacey, maybe unintentionally maybe not, trying to position himself as belonging to a community where this is normal upsets me. This is especially the case since, for so long, Spacey denied being gay. That Rapp has been out since the 1990s, meanwhile, says much about him.

[hungry_hole]

On 10/31/2017 at 11:17 AM, hungry_hole said:

Kevin Spacey wrote "I have loved and had romantic encounters with men throughout my life. I choose now to live as a gay man"

So far I haven't heard of any loving and romantic encounters where Spacey is involved with. All we've heard is Spacey chasing young cock.

I don't like the "gay" identity for men because it hides what it's really all about: SEX.  In my case I prefer to describe myself as someone who prefers anonymous sex and because women suck at NSA sex, I prefer sex with men.

In the mentioned piece (http://safestsex.org/aboutmen-en.php) they mention an interesting warning from Kinsey:

Quote

"For nearly a century the term homosexual in connection with human behavior has been applied to sexual relationships, either overt or psychic, between individuals of the same sex... It would encourage clearer thinking on these matters if persons were not characterized as heterosexual or homosexual, but as individuals who have had certain amounts of heterosexual experience and certain amounts of homosexual experience. Instead of using these terms as substantives which stand for persons, or even as adjectives to describe persons, they may better be used to describe the nature of overt sexual relations, or of the stimuli to which an individual erotically responds." Sexual Behavior in the Human Male (Kinsey, et al., 1948, p.656)

What Kinsey says is that it "would encourage clearer thinking on these matter" if people were not classified as gay or straight. It's not about who you are, but what you do. A boy can play only with other boys (Kinsey 6) but it should not determine his identity for ever. Later on in life he may get married to a woman and be classified as Kinsey 0.

This is similar to the issue of lying: "He's a liar!". A more accurate statement would be that he sometime lies. "He sometimes has sex with men" instead of "He's gay".

[Treehugger]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 10:59 PM, Conjack10 said:

I love Kevin Spacey. He is incredibly talented and sexy and I'd suck his cock and eat his cum in a minute but he really fucked up on this one.

MeatSeeker is absolutely right. It is illegal and also wrong for a grown man to proposition or be at all sexual with a 14 year old boy (or girl,etc.) It is never ok. It may be something that some of us fantasize about but it is not right for adults to be sexual with minors. Never. Even when it does occur and both parties enjoy it, it is still wrong and it causes harm to the adolescent because it forces them to have to deal with sex and sexuality at an age when they lack the sophistication to do so appropriately. It leads to all sorts of psycho-sexual pathologies and other psychological problems. Some members on this site will say that they had same sex experiences when they were minors and that they really enjoyed it. Well, it may have felt good and even felt appropriate at that age but you wouldn't give booze to a 14 year old or cocaine even though those drugs might feel good too.  Until a person is between 18 and 21 they lack the mental maturity necessary to make reliable judgments about sex. Of course, some kids mature faster but frankly they are not harmed by waiting until they reach the age of majority. As Phil Hartman said on SNL when playing Frank Sinatra talking to a forlorned Woody Allen in the midst of the Soon yi Previn scandal, "Woodcut, if I told you once I've told you a thousand times, keep your mits off of the kinder. I get tempted too myself sometimes but I take my business to the john. Because when you're a one man band nobody gets hurt!!"

I can't agree with you about the age of sexual maturity. Boxing it in with an number like you do seems illogical. Setting aside laws which are arbitrary all men and boys are different. It is not having sex that forces you to deal with sex and sexuality, its puberty and socializing that does that. Not having sex does not mean you are free from getting psycho-sexual pathologies or other related problems. Living in a sex phobic society does that already. I often think of all my problems that could have been eliminated if I could have met a man to help me understand what I was dealing with and yes have sex with. I was tortured by sexual desires from the age of 13 and all I ever learned during those years was to shut up about it. I became obsessed which led to all sorts of problems in my adult life. I wish I could have met Kevin Spacey when I was 14 maybe we could have helped each other out with each others problems.

[raunchycumslut]

I think it's good people are coming forward, standing up to harassment and assault, even if it's years or decades after the incident. I understand why people stay quiet; it's hard to speak up when you are worried you won't be believed, or even worse, you know you'll be treated as the one causing the problem because you had the nerve to speak up. If you think NOTHING will happen to the person responsible, and you will lose your job/be punished for speaking out, it's really hard to stand up against it. Plus there is a lot of social stigma and shame (especially for men) who admit they were sexually victimized; a lot of victims won't come forward for that reason alone. People who have never experienced this sort of thing really have no right to make judgements about it, IMO.

I was bullied and assaulted (insults, groping, threats of rape and other violence) almost daily for YEARS in High-school; the faculty (especially the douche of a principal) knew, and went out of their way to intimidate the victims into silence, the bullies knew this was going on and it encouraged/emboldened them to amp up their behavior (small town were football/sports were all that mattered to the school). One of the lead football coaches even got fired (and I think went to jail for a while) for coercing students into sex.                  

I've had jobs in which coworkers (male and female) asked intrusive, degrading questions about my sex life because I am gay, things they would NEVER have asked a straight person but somehow felt it was okay to ask me. I had to file a complaint with HR at my last job; a (supposedly straight) male coworker was going up to men who were friendly to me, outing me to them and asking if they were being nice to me because I was giving them some ass. I had a landlord (who was also my roommate) get married; his husband moved in and went out of his way to barge in on me in the bathroom (especially when I showered), and eventually threatened me with (illegal) eviction if I didn't have sex with men of his choosing while he watched (they backed down when I threatened to go to the courthouse and be VERY public about what was happening).

During HS, the few times I tried to tell people about it, they either didn't believe me (my parents shrugged it off as "boys teasing/joking around with each other", and the faculty tried to make me think it was my fault somehow, while also acting like I was making it all up and would get in trouble if I "kept lying" to them). At work, supervisors and coworkers never wanted to get involved even if I tried speaking up; luckily at my last job my department leader and the HR manager took complaints VERY seriously and were LGBT-friendly but most places are NOT like that, especially in Red States. During the situation with my roommate and his creep husband, I told someone I thought was a friend about it, his response was to tell me I was a huge slut and ask why I didn't just give the creep what he wanted. As awful as going through something like that is, it is so much worse to open up to someone about what is happening, and have them act like you are to blame, or that you are weak, or that you should just go along with it and not make a big deal out of it.

That all being said, I don't think it is accurate to call Spacey a pedophile. From what I have read, he didn't go after children, he went after teenagers. I don't go for anyone under 18 (usually under 30 really), but I feel that if someone is old enough to drive a car (and be responsible for the lives/safety of other people), they are old enough to decide if they want to have sex. Age of consent varies wildly from place to place, but in some places, 14 is legal. Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don't condemn or judge Spacey for liking young teenagers (again, there is a HUGE different between a child under 12 and a teenager, in both physical and mental maturity). If he is guilty, he should be condemned for abusing his authority to pressure people into sex they didn't want, to harass and assault men and teens. I always want to say, that I find it appalling how people will immediately want to crucify any man (gay or straight) who goes after younger partners, but when women do it people laugh and say it's not a big deal. Think of all the women teachers who have been caught fucking 13-16 year old male students, and how people reacted to them. There is a serious double standard at play here; I can't help but feel that Spacey is getting extra attention because he is a man who went after teenage boys; if he had gone after girls (or been a woman), a LOT of people wouldn't give a shit. As for him trying to use "I'm GAY!!!" as an excuse, to imply he can't help it because that's part of being a gay man, to throw people off his trail by turning their wrath on all gay men? That was disgusting and inexcusable, something he should never be forgiven for, even in the unlikely event he was somehow exonerated of all charges/accusations.

Semi off topic, but I read that George Takei is being accused of sexual assault as well. I don't tend to either believe or dismiss people's claims until details/evidence emerges, but I feel like this one is bullshit. The story sounds like the guy got drunk off his ass, started playing with Takei and passed out, and looooooonnnngg afterwards decided to call it an assault for publicity or another bullshit reason. I'm worried this movement of victims coming forward will soon be overtaken/overshadowed by liars/publicity/money-seekers, the "boy who cried wolf" effect will go into full swing, and actual victims will go back to being ignored and shunned for coming forward.

Edited November 11, 2017 by raunchycumslut

[Guest Upstateguy518]

If it were just the one case, I could say yes give him a pass. He was drunk, more than likely, and everyone does dumb shit when drunk. It’s the other accusations out now that prove Spacey was a serial offender and overall asshole for years. That’s when you gotta say this was no accident. It’s a shame too for a guy so talented to throw his career away for nothing. It’s Hollywood. He could have easily banged a bunch of barely legal guys and it’d have been fine.

[Guest hungandmean]

On 10/31/2017 at 5:30 AM, edward21uk said:

So, do we discuss Kevin Spacey here - or ignore him?

Horseplay with Rapp when he was a minor without any sexual contact; was there consent?

And where were his parents or chaperone, and why was he the last person to stay at the Spacey party, and did he agree to stay? - They're to blame?

Was actor Rapp enamoured by Spacey and sexually aware (at the age he was, I certainly was sexually active with 18+ guys)?

And why wait 25+ years to complain (is it because he's now got a TV role on a major syndicated [sort of] show - STAR TREK) ?

Very few victims of sexual assault ever speak up when it happens. Generally the only time that happens is when the assault is so violent they end up in an emergency room.

People go to great lengths to hide the fact they were abused - especially if it happened when they were young. I was a fucking idiot at 15-20, there would be no way i'd challenge someone like Spacey at that age.

Let's face it - Spacey isn't hot and never has been. There is no way anyone was enamoured with his potato looking ass.

[Guest I84SexSlave4All]

For one thing, this is a classic case of cycle of abuse. Spacey's father was abusive, both physically, mentally and sexually. He never got the help he needed and became an abuser himself.

Rapp had been telling people for years that Spacey drunkenly sexually assaulted him at a party, but until the #MeToo movement no one took action. Its not an isolated case. Spacey has other accusers that have come forward as well. I was drunk. I don't remember are textbook ways to avoid responsibility.

Accusing someone publicly, especially a famous talent, is not what someone does to move their career forward. Its risking your career to come forward.

This is a huge problem in Hollywood. Director Bryan Singer's underage sex parties, Charlie Sheen's raping and bullying of Corey Haim, the molestation of several Menudo members.

Tip of the iceberg - Ever wonder what made Kirk Cameron go Holy Roller? If a big talent just disappears (like so many actresses), something is up.

 

 

[Guest BBBoyfromTN]

Only two people really know what happened that night and the takeaway for both was clearly quite different. It’s not for me to judge where the truth lies and honestly, when I was Rapp’s age I was sexually active and more than few times wound up in somewhat non-consensual situations where I kind of/sort of sought things that got out of control. I was sexually inexperienced and trying to play out fantasies and not sure of how to negotiate it all. Maybe that was Rapp, maybe not. 14 year olds are a bundle of nervous sexual energy and sometimes a little too eager to release that energy. Some guys know that, like that, and want to take advantage of that, knowing the risks. Maybe that was Spacey, maybe not. I had a lot of things happen to me sexually when I was young that I had to work out in therapy and I’m glad I recognized it and sought help. Does what happened still shape who I am? Sure. I wish Rapp AND Spacey sought help far sooner than they have. Life has damaged both of them at various points and they have probably avoided where they are now had they sought help sooner. The most important think is they’re getting help. They need to forgive themselves and atone for what they did, and seek foregiveness from those they harmed.

[grayhoss]

I just.. I don't know, honestly. The current generation is..deeply wierd to me. The minute they discover the internet they're the most jaded of jaded whores. And I speak as someone who's heard multiple groups of 'kids' plan gangbangs based ob their folks' porn stash. Its a little jarring, hearing someone of whom all the local conservatives are saying 'we have to protect these frail innocents!' about ans meanwhile, the clique-leader's all 'Shut up! I'm in charge because its my Mom's porn and I got boobs first! You'll shut him up with your bagina while Missy rides him and like it!' to all her friends waiting for the schoolbus to take 'em home. If I didn't have the wind up me about being condemned for having anything to do with kids, because gay man, I would've tried to report them. Needless to say, I refused to be 'line-watcher' while my Mom and other teachers finished up their overtime anymore. Kids are damn creepy , these last few decades!  It was like realizing I live in the twilight zone or something, each time. Once back in Tampa in 98 and several times living in a DC apartment more recently. So, when people talk about kids being innocent, I sortof just shake my head and bite my toungue.

[Toon]

He is still cool in my book. He wasn't a serial abuser like Cosby -- he just did some dumb stuff. Maybe I'm biased because I find him hot and "American Beauty" is one of my favorite movies of all time. My two pennies for ya.

[Guest Upstateguy518]

15 people came forward and he hasn't disputed any claims. That's all that needs to be said. It'd sad to see a talented actor go that route but it is what it is. Same goes for Cosby.

[gwmxyz]

Ok, I was sexually active at 26, even though a dozen or so of the teaching staff at my school have done time.  Was I ugly or something? (my equally unmolested straight friend says you're not meant to say that...still you do wonder).
Sorry if it sounds a bit old fashioned or pompous - but the short answer to the question is, I reckon we should leave it.  Presumption of innocence and all that.  Of course - as some bonehead politician has pointed out - being presumed innocent is rather different from being innocent.  We can go further - it's exact opposite most of the time.  The rule is about about where and how it's done.
Other points.  While I admire the courage of those who stand up to those who took advantage of them, there obvious problems where it's not admitted.  If you say I raped you last night, I can show I was otherwise occupied.  If you say it happened on an unspecified day ten years ago, you're in for a much easier time in the box.  It's not always truth and lies either - mistaken identity is possible too.  Does anyone reckon Lord McAlpine would have been acquitted if he hadn't been able to prove his innocence 20 years later? 
And yes, back to the teaching staff, I think there's a massive difference between consent (of any age or however overawed or unfairly pressured) and non-consent. I'm not saying they're not both crimes. I just suspect the former is a lot more common than the latter - also explaining why me and my friend were left alone.  They knew then answer they would get ("..I was so much older then...").  At least that's the way I'm going to look at it. 

[Guest]

It has been known about for decades.  KS is known for drugging hustlers or getting violent with tricks who he gets drunk or gives drugs to first. 

[Guest]

My feelings are basically centred on the view that's it more helpful to focus on abusive behaviour in general and how to stop that; Also that's important to stand with the people how have the courage to step forward and talk about what's happened to them. Standing up and accuse the man of woman who molested you takes balls, and is probably an important step in healing.
At the same time these kinds are the hardest crimes to prove as often there are no witnesses. In the absence of physical proof a judge or jury should declare any accused to be innocent. And if we as bystanders think 'there is smoke, so there must be fire' innocent people might get hurt too.

It's complicated, and acting like it's not is harmful in itself.

 

On 6/19/2022 at 3:47 AM, TotalTop said:

It has been known about for decades.  KS is known for drugging hustlers or getting violent with tricks who he gets drunk or gives drugs to first. 

Spacey is now facing the legal system of the UK. 
[think before following links] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61597747

Let's just hope the truth comes out. That might help any victims of abuse the most.

 

On 3/21/2018 at 12:48 PM, Guest I84SexSlave4All said:

For one thing, this is a classic case of cycle of abuse. Spacey's father was abusive, both physically, mentally and sexually. He never got the help he needed and became an abuser himself.

I think it's a myth that all victims of abuse turn into abusers themselves.

It's also a harmful myth as it makes it far too easy for an abuser to claim being a victim himself/herself in stead of taking responsibly for what they've done as an adult. And secondly this myth makes it harder for victims/survivors to step forward as it results in people seeing them as possible sex-offenders.

Most victims are NOT sex-offenders themselves.

Just my handful of cents.

[BootmanLA]

5 hours ago, BareLover666 said:

I think it's a myth that all victims of abuse turn into abusers themselves.

It's also a harmful myth as it makes it far too easy for an abuser to claim being a victim himself/herself in stead of taking responsibly for what they've done as an adult. And secondly this myth makes it harder for victims/survivors to step forward as it results in people seeing them as possible sex-offenders.

Most victims are NOT sex-offenders themselves.

I think, though, this misses the point.

It's true that not all victims go on to abuse others. However, I suspect it's true that most abusers were abused themselves. That doesn't absolve them of their abusive behavior, but it does indicate the need to break the cycle. Some people break it easily, not going on to abuse anyone else. But others need help.