How viral is a VLC of 400K?

[Guest FriendlyBottom]

12 hours ago, MackyJay said:

When I was firs diagnosed, my doctor called me  FULL BLOWN AIDS with VLC of only 76,000   so 400K would be quite high.    Higher viral counts mean more likely to become infected with fewer tries is all

I just wanted to add some facts to this comment:  Viral load is not used to define the clinical condition of AIDS (i.e. advanced HIV disease).  The doctor diagnosed you as having AIDS because at the time you were diagnosed with HIV one or more of the following was true:  your CD4 count was <200; your CD4 percentage was <14%; you had one or more of approximately 30 conditions (e.g. PCP pnuemonia, KS, certain types of lymphoma, histoplasmosis, etc.).  Viral load does not factor into an AIDS diagnosis.  If you are HIV-positive and your CD4 count is OVER 200 and CD4 % is OVER 14 and you have none of those ~30 conditions, your VL can be 1.2 million and you do NOT have AIDS.

Also, "full blown AIDS" is not a medical term.  One has AIDS or one does not.  There is no "full blown", "half blown" or "quarter blown" AIDS.  The term is used, coloquially, by people who, frankly, don't know better and emerged way back in the day when fewer people were informed about the difference between "asymptomatic HIV infection" and the advanced clinical state of "AIDS".

(And, for the record, I apologize if these fact-based posts of mine are not welcome in this thread.  I just feel compelled to throw out some facts on occasion.  Feel free to ask me to not post in this thread if you don't want to hear them.  No harm, no foul.)

[MackyJay]

To Friendly:   I only used the term full blown, as that is the most common term most people use.  AIDS is how you have described it, mostly.   High viral load, low cd4 count, mostly used anymore.    According to my doctor,  hvl DOES equate to a MORE LIKELY to transmit the virus with fewer 'tries'.   Meaning that the higher means more is injected into someone else in MOST cases.   Many factors do come in to play.  Depending on method of injection, receiving person's overall health and so forth.   Did not in any way try to demean any other factors.

[MackyJay]

My latest tests, from last week.    VIRAL LOAD:<20    only real concern is original cd4 was at about 50   last week: only up to 60  seems to not be going up worth a damn

[Detchiller]

On 3/14/2018 at 12:35 PM, Homo60 said:

I can't remember the exact figures that are quoted on the border line of undetectable and toxic, but with a 400VL, I'm sure he is considered very toxic and yes, if your not wanting to convert, stay away from him for sure, because the chances are very high with that. I comes to mind that below 100 and around 50 or below is considered undetectable, but don't quote me there as I don't remember where it came from.

Your best bet is to get on the PreP if possible, a bit pricey, but has been proved to be worth it if you can swing it.

I think under 20 is considered undetectable. My ex bf told me he had a count of 27 a month after starting his meds and after that, he was undetectable.

[MackyJay]

At one time it was considered that under 500 was undetectable, then they decided that wasn't right and changed it to under 200 and again decided that was too high and changed it to under 50.  Now it has changed again to be considered undetect. it is under 20.

[Guest FriendlyBottom]

3 hours ago, MackyJay said:

At one time it was considered that under 500 was undetectable, then they decided that wasn't right and changed it to under 200 and again decided that was too high and changed it to under 50.  Now it has changed again to be considered undetect. it is under 20.

Actually, the lower bound of detectability has dropped over time because the laboratory tests to detect the amount of HIV virus in plasma samples have INCREASED IN SENSITIVITY.

Using the numbers you cite (500, 200, 50, 20), the first tests were able to detect and quantify HIV if it was present at the level -- you say 500 or more copies per ml of plasma, so we'll go with that.  Thus, a level of 499 or fewer  copies could not be detected by these tests, so those were UNDETECTABLE LEVELS.

The next generation of tests were more sensitive and were able to detect and quantify HIV if it was present at the level  -- according to you -- of 200 or more copies per ml of plasma.  A level of 199 or fewer copies could not be detected by these tests, so those were UNDETECTABLE LEVELS.

etc., etc.

It's factually incorrect to say "then they decided that wasn't right and changed it..."  The reality is that the test improved and the lower bound of detectability fell.

(I'm done with this thread.)

[MackyJay]

Of course testing improved, but the CDC still used the older figures until they decided if it needed to lower the levels to be called undet.  They tested below 500 for a good 3 or 4 years before deciding that what they wanted was a level unlikely to infect before lowering it.  Testing is always well ahead of where they lowered it.  Even when they made it under 20 during tests they left the level at 50 for a good couple of years and then decided it could still be 'likely' to infect at the 50 level.  Under 20 has been the undet. level now for about 3 years, I think, and they have never found an infection from someone transmitted from that level.   Other factors could still be under consideration also.    New meds coming out now or very soon seem to show absolutely no infection rates or almost impossible.       Making it hard for chasers more and more it seems. 

 

[sse4me]

Well, I'm still considering taking his loads. I'll have taken white wine enemas which, though they will have stripped my recal mucosa, will have also made my rectum and colon very acidic. I've read that the acidity of stomach fluids kill the virus and white wine has a similar pH. I know I'm taking a gamble, but aren't all of us who bareback, and some of us are gambling to remain neg and others to get converted.  I can be persuaded either way.

Perhaps tomorrow he and I will hook up. I'll keep you posted.

[cman54]

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 9:05 PM, sse4me said:

Well, I'm still considering taking his loads. I'll have taken white wine enemas which, though they will have stripped my recal mucosa, will have also made my rectum and colon very acidic. I've read that the acidity of stomach fluids kill the virus and white wine has a similar pH. I know I'm taking a gamble, but aren't all of us who bareback, and some of us are gambling to remain neg and others to get converted.  I can be persuaded either way.

Perhaps tomorrow he and I will hook up. I'll keep you posted.

Can you give us an update?

[1111bb2222]

With a 400k vl and he fucks you bb there is very good chance u will become hiv positive. I Never asked the status of this gom top guy we fucked bb and he never came in me. After I test hiv positive he told me he was on meds but at the time had 100k vl. 

[6811283]

On 3/16/2018 at 9:05 PM, sse4me said:

Well, I'm still considering taking his loads. I'll have taken white wine enemas which, though they will have stripped my recal mucosa, will have also made my rectum and colon very acidic. I've read that the acidity of stomach fluids kill the virus and white wine has a similar pH. I know I'm taking a gamble, but aren't all of us who bareback, and some of us are gambling to remain neg and others to get converted.  I can be persuaded either way.

Perhaps tomorrow he and I will hook up. I'll keep you posted.

White wine enemas protect you against HIV? Where on earth did you get that idea?

[Leatherman667]

17 minutes ago, 6811283 said:

White wine enemas protect you against HIV? Where on earth did you get that idea?

I have not heard it either

[6811283]

58 minutes ago, Leatherman667 said:

I have not heard it either

Think of all the money being wasted on prep... $1200/month when you can get a nice little Chardonnay for $8! ?

[Guest]

I wouldn't avoid him...I don't care how high his VL is. If a POZ Top wants to breed my boi pussy, it is his to breed. Regardless of his VL. I have a Hot Top Daddy I'm seeing now who's VL is between 50k-100k....and he breeds me repeatedly! Toxic cum can be very addictive! Once you've had a POZ load, it's hard to go back. I don't know what it is and maybe it's just me, but since I took my first "known" POZ load, I can't get enough! Give me that Demon Seed!!

[Guest latintoppoz]

my VL last tested was 400k last month.. have converted 7 guys with about two loads each since then, granted i don’t use lube so that tears them a bit if they’re tight.