Most pozzing takes place in bathhouses. True or false?

[concerned1]

When the AIDS epidemic was realised in 1981 and during the time the epidemic raged through the 80s and 90s, it was believed by most experts working in the field of AIDS, that most HIV transmissions took place in the bathhouses ....and that the majority of those infected were a particular sub-group of gay men who frequented the baths.

For this reason, San Francisco closed their bathhouses and I think they've never reopened since.

Apparently, had it not taken so long for San Francisco's mayor to close the baths, the epidemic in that city, in particular, would never have turned out as bad as it ended up being. It's true that guys will do bareback anywhere....whether it be the bathhouses, sex clubs, parks, toilets, in their own homes etc. But apparently raw anal sex among gay men takes place in the bathhouses more than it does anywhere else.

Was that the ever really the case and if so, does it remain the case today? Do most people (by no means all, of course....but most ) get pozzed up in the bathhouses?

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by concerned1

[drscorpio]

I don’t think that is true now or then. Bathhouses were closed in the 80s because of hysteria over them being “dens of disease” rather than the actuality of that. What closing bathhouses did was remove a centralized location where health workers could do outreach, testing, and treatment referrals to lots of men at once. 

Raw fucking takes place everywhere. I live in rural Louisiana. The closest baths to me are 4 hours away in Dallas or Houston. I promise I don’t have to go that far to get a load. That means transmission of HIV happens everywhere, too. 

[concerned1]

@drscorpio I suppose what closing the baths achieved was preventing most guys from being able to take god only knows how many risks in one night or over the course of a weekend (or whatever). 

What I mean is, when guys go to the bathhouses, they very often have sex with multiple partners.....one person could have sex with up to any number of guys in just a single night or weekend.

Let's take an imagined person we'll call "John". John likes to go to one of his local bathhouses most weekends. He's really hardcore...he enters the bathhouse on a Friday evening around 5pm and doesn't leave until about 5pm on Sunday. On average, during his entire Friday to Sunday weekend at the bathhouse, he has fucked, and/or been fucked by, anything from 5 to 20 guys. He does most of ....if not all of....his sexual encounters raw.

The fact that he is able to raw fuck so many guys in a single weekend, every weekend, really makes his risk of HIV very high indeed...in fact, I daresay...an inevitability. But let's say one day his local baths are closed. The nearest town or city that has any baths is really very far away. Now, John is only able to get his sex from the local cruising places....which are a couple of public parks during the day and night. He isn't able to go during the day so often due to work, and also because it's more risky in the day time to get caught.....so he only goes during after dark hours....it isn't so busy as the baths and often it's quite cold in the evenings. He doesn't hang about there for the whole weekend....he's only hanging about there a few hours at most on a Saturday and occasionally on a Sunday, too. Due to the very nature of it being outdoors, most of the action he gets is limited to sucking and rimming etc as opposed to fucking ...though he does fuck, but not so much. His number of sexual partners is right down. At these local cruising parks, he is sometimes lucky if he gets any action at all, as it can be rather "hit and miss"....but usually he finds one or maybe two guys who takes his fancy. He does raw fuck some of those guys....but again, not every weekend and not with every guy he meets.

So...I guess we can see from John's story...while raw fucking can indeed take place anywhere....the bathhouses are probably where it's most likely to take place and with a greater number of guys .

To conclude....I would say shutting the baths down would in fact reduce ...indeed greatly reduce.....the number of chances guys would be taking in terms of getting HIV.

[Leatherman667]

31 minutes ago, concerned1 said:

On average, during his entire Friday to Sunday weekend at the bathhouse, he has fucked, and/or been fucked by, anything from 5 to 20 guys. He does most of ....if not all of....his sexual encounters raw.

He's not doing very well in two whole days of activity. I would have thought it might be nearer 50 cocks or holes. Ahhh bliss.

[workmyhole]

2 hours ago, drscorpio said:

Raw fucking takes place everywhere. I live in rural Louisiana. The closest baths to me are 4 hours away in Dallas or Houston. I promise I don’t have to go that far to get a load. That means transmission of HIV happens everywhere, too. 

Before I was POZ, I hit the baths regularly, when I did get POZ'd it was at a friend's party.  So DR. Scorpio is right, raw sex happens everywhere.  Mind you, I still go to the baths and take raw loads.

[concerned1]

20 minutes ago, workmyhole said:

Before I was POZ, I hit the baths regularly, when I did get POZ'd it was at a friend's party.  So DR. Scorpio is right, raw sex happens everywhere.  Mind you, I still go to the baths and take raw loads.

I think my point is that the bathhouses helped (still help?) facilitate the spread of the virus. I think that maybe if all the bathhouses were closed down very early on in the epidemic, or even if they'd never existed at all, then the HIV/AIDS epidemic would never have been as huge within the gay community as it became. And I say that as someone who does enjoy fun in the baths (or "saunas" as we call them here in the UK). 

[Guest Upstateguy518]

I'd say no. At a bathhouse, it's normally accepted that fucking is gonna be mostly raw so yes the chances are higher but same could be said if you frequent a adult video store or any other cruising spot. If I'm raw fucking, I have a greater chance to get an std and to spread it. Wouldn't matter where it's taking place, It's just an inevitability that people who fuck raw have to deal with. 

[drscorpio]

Concerned1, what is the point of your threads. You state a position based on your own ill-informed ideas about how HIV transmission works. People then present their own experiences that contradict your nonsense. You then talk over everything they say making no efforts to address their points. This process continues until everyone else realizes the there is no point in having a discussion with you, and the thread dies out. 

The fact is that you have nothing but prejudice and internalized homophobia and sex-negativity to support your position. When bath houses started reopening, there was not a huge spike in HIV transmission  

Here is some ACTUAL DATA https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2891333/  This study concludes that the average number of sexual,partners per visit is less than 3 while the vast majority of visitors have sex with one person and then leave. We hear stories about people having wild sex adventures at the baths which certainly do happen, but most of those are guys who travel to a city with a bathhouse or who only go once in a while for a special treat. Most guys want to drop in, get off, and leave. The average length of visit was a little over 3 hours with a range from 20minutes to 17 hours. 

The biggest danger in the spread of HIV is guys who don’t get tested. They have sex with other guys thinking they are negative and telling them they are negative. If they happen to turn Poz, they might behighly infectious for months or years without knowing it. They spread the virus wherever they go. They are just as dangerous in your bedroom after 3 dates as they would be at the baths. The difference is there are bowls of condoms everywhere at the baths, and he probably had to walk by the table offering free HIV tests to get there. 

[ErosWired]

4 hours ago, drscorpio said:

Here is some ACTUAL DATA 

This^. Boom. We have a winner. Actual data wins out over speculation, supposition, assumption, and bias every. single. time.

In any event, HIV/AIDS has become too entrenched across too many demographics to attribute its spread to a single causality in such a facile way.

[drscorpio]

1 hour ago, ErosWired said:

This^. Boom. We have a winner. Actual data wins out over speculation, supposition, assumption, and bias every. single. time.

In any event, HIV/AIDS has become too entrenched across too many demographics to attribute its spread to a single causality in such a facile way.

Also, I would like to point out. A peer-reviewed study with hard data took me less than 5 minutes to find online. 

[bbinbpark]

On 5/26/2018 at 4:29 PM, drscorpio said:

Here is some ACTUAL DATA https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2891333/  

An interesting read. I'd be curious to see a repeat of this study with more current trends. The data collection was last completed at the end of 2002, and a lot has changed since then. I think I still occasionally visited bathhouses when this was conducted, and at that time was a condom nazi. Definitely not the case anymore. 

While pure speculation, I'd guess that the apps have a lot more to do with pozzing in this day and age than bathhouse activity. In any event, totally agree with you drscorpio, pozzing happens everywhere. 

[Guest whoremonger]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 12:22 PM, concerned1 said:

… apparently raw anal sex among gay men takes place in the bathhouses more than it does anywhere else ...

I don't know of any scientific (or otherwise reliable) study that indicates this. I suspect that a 'moral panic' emerged in the early 1980's (perpetuated in the media), concerning San Francisco bathhouses. And, of course, this 'image' found its way into mainstream consciousness through such films as And the Band Played On (1993).

You ask "Do most people (by no means all, of course....but most ) get pozzed up in the bathhouses?" I'd say that of the 37 million people living with HIV in the world, very few - an insignificant minority, statistically speaking - got infected in a bathhouse! And of the 1.1 million people living with HIV in the USA, bathhouse attendance will likely represent a virtually negligible factor in terms of causation.

So, when you go on to ask/suggest that "bathhouses helped (still help?) facilitate the spread of the virus" the answer is simple: No.

As such, your comment that "I would say shutting the baths down would in fact reduce ...indeed greatly reduce.....the number of chances guys would be taking in terms of getting HIV" is nonsensical. It's not based on fact, but on some absurd myth.

 

[Alaric]

I've never been interviewed while in a sauna or while leaving. In fact never seen anyone else being interviewed.

[Guest]

my thoughts are the same people go to the bath houses all the time so i figure they keep reinfecting themselves

[Guest]

so bath houses closed down now guy finds other places to go and spreads it even more   so bath houses closing is not good its not contained anymore