Undetectable on Grindr, Toxic on BBRT

[BootmanLA]

19 hours ago, ErosWired said:

I’m not sure we’re talking about the same populations of men here. Men who are willing to engage in a non-sexual meetup as a precursor to a sexual one are In a very different frame of mind than men looking for a hole to dump a load into or a submissive cunt to wreck because they’re aggressive, dominant and horny. I doubt that you would get as many who would be so careless with lies like being Undetectable on one app and toxic on another if they’re going to sit down and swap notes with another guy over coffee - that’s how the truth comes out. My sense is that the kind of behavior the OP is talking about comes mostly from guys interested in quick, NSA hookups, but I coild be wrong.

Of course we're not talking about the same population of men here. That's my point. If you want people who are going to be true to their word and do what they say, you're less likely (much less, in my opinion, but that's just my opinion) to find that reliably among guys who are solely hunting for a hole to dump in. There are too many other options that may present themselves along the way and once he's done, he's done.

That's not being judgmental of either quickie tops or cumdump bottoms. I'm saying it's part of the quickie culture that reliability pretty much goes by the wayside.

[Cumfilledbottomboi]

I don’t care if they’re poz or not. If I’m fucking bare, I know the risks.

[ErosWired]

4 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Of course we're not talking about the same population of men here. That's my point. If you want people who are going to be true to their word and do what they say, you're less likely (much less, in my opinion, but that's just my opinion) to find that reliably among guys who are solely hunting for a hole to dump in. There are too many other options that may present themselves along the way and once he's done, he's done.

That's not being judgmental of either quickie tops or cumdump bottoms. I'm saying it's part of the quickie culture that reliability pretty much goes by the wayside.

Fair enough. And I guess that just serves to underscore the OP’s question, then, because BBRTS is designed as a hookup site rather than a dating site (the RTS stands for ‘Real Time Sex’ after all) rather than a dating site. So if apps like BBRTS have made it ridiculous not to expect to be lied to, how widespread is it (how prevalent has it become)? - OP’s original question; and: How did we allow that to become the norm to the point that expecting the opposite is ridiculous? - mine. An answer to the OP’s question is possible from the combined observations of the group. An answer to mine isn’t really necessary, and the question is just food for thought... the Tops are going to fuck me when they choose whether they’re honest or not, and that’s the truth.

[BootmanLA]

12 hours ago, ErosWired said:

Fair enough. And I guess that just serves to underscore the OP’s question, then, because BBRTS is designed as a hookup site rather than a dating site (the RTS stands for ‘Real Time Sex’ after all) rather than a dating site. So if apps like BBRTS have made it ridiculous not to expect to be lied to, how widespread is it (how prevalent has it become)? - OP’s original question; and: How did we allow that to become the norm to the point that expecting the opposite is ridiculous? - mine. An answer to the OP’s question is possible from the combined observations of the group. An answer to mine isn’t really necessary, and the question is just food for thought... the Tops are going to fuck me when they choose whether they’re honest or not, and that’s the truth.

How widespread? I'd say fairly, but not an order of magnitude more than the average lying on other social-interaction (date/hookup) apps & websites.

One of the things about BBRTS working in its favor, for honesty, is that it's a place that's unashamedly about bareback sex, whether that's on PrEP, with someone undetectable, with sero-sorting, or just not caring one way or the other. Virtually every other site out there pushes (at least as an option) condom sex, either as a searchable characteristic or via ads and "sexual health" promotional information, etc. By being honest that it expects its members to be at least willing to engage in bareback sex, it should (in theory) encourage more honest discussions about that behavior.

As for how we got to the point where expecting that people can lie is a new norm: well, as I note, I've been expecting that people will lie about many things, since my early days as a young gayling back in the late 70's. I learned guys will lie to you about being single, they'll lie to you about their stats, they'll lie to you about their substance habits, they'll lie to you about anything that they think may paint them in a less-than-flattering light. Not all guys, certainly. Probably not even most. But enough that I never assume people are telling the truth about anything that's not immediately verifiable, until I have a better idea of how trustworthy an individual is.

And as someone on the spectrum, I recognize you may have more difficulty with that last than some other folks even when you have ready access to the same observations and information, and in pure online hookup culture, you may not have any access to those observations for a stranger. That's not to suggest it's good behavior, to say you're going to show up for something and then not, but... 

[Hungry4bbc]

Recently had the same experience.  Reconnected with a hot top I blew several years ago. He was on rentmen listed as neg. Then he hmu on grindr where he said he was undetectable.  He also said he was a top on rm but on grindr he was looking for dick.  Theres no reason to lie about any of this stuff I was looking forward to reconnect and then this shit turned me off. Sad cause I really don't care as long as you are honest with me 

If I can't trust you to be honest then I assume you're gonna give me all sorts of sti's that I don't want. 

[hungry_hole]

9 hours ago, Hungry4bbc said:

He also said he was a top on rm but on grindr he was looking for dick. 

If he wants to make any money he has to say that he's a Top in RentMen. Some bottoms may get some business but only when they are really young.

[bbpoznow]

Just looking for dick , but find a lot of tops want to talk and brag about how many they have affected , when it  comes down to the short strokes  they are gone . Older neg raw chaser

 

[tallslenderguy]

On 8/10/2020 at 11:39 PM, ErosWired said:

I’m not sure we’re talking about the same populations of men here. Men who are willing to engage in a non-sexual meetup as a precursor to a sexual one are In a very different frame of mind than men looking for a hole to dump a load into or a submissive cunt to wreck because they’re aggressive, dominant and horny. I doubt that you would get as many who would be so careless with lies like being Undetectable on one app and toxic on another if they’re going to sit down and swap notes with another guy over coffee - that’s how the truth comes out. My sense is that the kind of behavior the OP is talking about comes mostly from guys interested in quick, NSA hookups, but I coild be wrong.

In my experience, lying, flaking, can cross the populations boundaries.  Despite efforts to the contrary (never had a ltr with a guy), most of my sex life has been anonymous hook up. i lost count long ago after 1000. 

i think the reality is, that as sex aps have become more mainstream,  so have the people who populate them.  I.e., it's not just the horny gay guys, but Bi guys who are curious, married, closeted, homophobic, kids,  etc.,  etc.  I.e., everyone and anyone can easily and anonymously access a sex ap.  i don't think that the core gay community has changed so much as the people visiting and (sort of) participating has probably increased significantly.  Before online meeting, one had to cruise a park or restroom or bar. There was risk inherent in cruising that many would never take. Online can be virtually risk free.  i think the number of flakes, liars and money seekers has increased because there are people on sex aps that wouldn't be there without the opportunity that only a sex ap can bring.

When i was cruising, there were times i'd encounter the shy, scared guy who was investigating his sexuality, but it was a lot rarer than online. No one ever asked for gas money because, hey, we were already both there.  If they wanted money, they had to be pretty up front about it, and again, that was rare. And re disease or status?  i cannot recall ever even discussing that when cruising.  If he was concerned, the only common nod to STD's was the question of condoms.  If i presented for fucking, some would ask if i had a condom, or they'd put one on. But the vast majority would slide in without hesitation.  

[blackrobe]

On 8/9/2020 at 9:24 AM, Jd14 said:

In my city I saw a top on BBRT whose profile says he's poz detectable and off meds.  The same exact guy also is on Grindr where his profile says he's poz undetectable (raw only) and he convieniently leaves off his last tested date.  Thus, some neg bottoms are are probably hooking up with him thinking they're safe because U=U, but they're actually getting their guts coated with a toxic load.

Do any of you guys or people you know do something similar to this? If so, why? No judgment, I'm just curious. I wonder how widespread it is.

Overall, this is why I'm on PrEP - you can't trust anyone.  

The only person you should trust with your sexual health is *you*.

[BootmanLA]

13 hours ago, Hungry4bbc said:

Recently had the same experience.  Reconnected with a hot top I blew several years ago. He was on rentmen listed as neg. Then he hmu on grindr where he said he was undetectable.  He also said he was a top on rm but on grindr he was looking for dick.  Theres no reason to lie about any of this stuff I was looking forward to reconnect and then this shit turned me off. Sad cause I really don't care as long as you are honest with me 

If I can't trust you to be honest then I assume you're gonna give me all sorts of sti's that I don't want. 

I hate to bring this up, but if someone's routinely having unprotected sex, "all sorts of sti's that [you] don't want" are kind of an occupational hazard. 

The idea that you can *expect* anything a guy fills out on a hookup profile to be accurate and completely honest seems - what is the right word? Naive? Silly? Ill-advised? People are going to do everything from outright lie (ie claiming to be negative when they're undetectable), to fudge the truth (saying they weigh 170 lbs when that's only if you discount both legs), to bluff (claiming to be negative when their last test was sometime in the 20th century). Now, it may be that the *odds* are, *most* people are *mostly* telling the truth, but to extrapolate from that anything specific about a particular person is a fool's errand.

[tallslenderguy]

Turns out we are not the only ones writing about and discussing this. Here's an article on the subject from In Magazine
 

What’s The Deal With Grindr Flakes?

[Hungry4bbc]

On 8/19/2020 at 1:41 PM, BootmanLA said:

I hate to bring this up, but if someone's routinely having unprotected sex, "all sorts of sti's that [you] don't want" are kind of an occupational hazard. 

The idea that you can *expect* anything a guy fills out on a hookup profile to be accurate and completely honest seems - what is the right word? Naive? Silly? Ill-advised? People are going to do everything from outright lie (ie claiming to be negative when they're undetectable), to fudge the truth (saying they weigh 170 lbs when that's only if you discount both legs), to bluff (claiming to be negative when their last test was sometime in the 20th century). Now, it may be that the *odds* are, *most* people are *mostly* telling the truth, but to extrapolate from that anything specific about a particular person is a fool's errand.

That's definitely truth right there. Agree 100% but at the same time I think one should be able to trust what someone says at least in person if not online.  I mean sure I'm using my pic from a few years ago but that's not the same as straight up lying about your status which I find reprehensible. 

You're right though you shouldn't believe anything you read especially not on hookup apps 

[BlackDude]

On 8/19/2020 at 11:04 AM, tallslenderguy said:

Turns out we are not the only ones writing about and discussing this. Here's an article on the subject from In Magazine
 

What’s The Deal With Grindr Flakes?

Unless you’re a 20yo white make with 6 packs abs, Grindr is a bust in my area. Anyone else has a BF and can’t host. 

[BootmanLA]

17 hours ago, BlackDude said:

Unless you’re a 20yo white make with 6 packs abs, Grindr is a bust in my area. Anyone else has a BF and can’t host. 

Or has a wife/girlfriend and can't host. Closet cases are the worst.

[120DaysofSodom]

On 8/9/2020 at 12:24 PM, Jd14 said:

In my city I saw a top on BBRT whose profile says he's poz detectable and off meds.  The same exact guy also is on Grindr where his profile says he's poz undetectable (raw only) and he convieniently leaves off his last tested date.  Thus, some neg bottoms are are probably hooking up with him thinking they're safe because U=U, but they're actually getting their guts coated with a toxic load.

Do any of you guys or people you know do something similar to this? If so, why? No judgment, I'm just curious. I wonder how widespread it is.

Overall, this is why I'm on PrEP - you can't trust anyone.  

It should be assumed if youre barebacking and unprotected, youre exposing yourself to STDs/STIs. I have come across a person on Grindr before that said, "Negative", as his status. When he asked me to hook up I told him I was poz undetectable and asked him if he was okay with that. He replied that he was also poz undetectable. Thats when I asked him why if hes poz undetectable does it say hes negative in his profile? This sort of attitude is a complete turn off to me. I cant stand liars. You really can't trust anyone.