Ditch Roommate/Friend?

[BlackDude]

Okay first I already know I’m wrong for asking this, but here I go. 
 

My current roommate is a good friend I have had for a few years. However the problem is he is getting older, has had a lot of medical problems recently l, and is really no longer interested in hooking up. That, combined with Covid, means he has been staying in the house and becoming increasingly bitter depressed and complaining. Even tho I charge him well below market value, the complaints are increasing and I am increasingly getting annoyed. End it always seems his medical problems flare up when it’s time for chores.  Add onto the fact that he is now claiming he “can’t sleep,” Is sitting in his room with the door open and the light on and damn near watching if I leave the house late to hook up. And bringing someone into the house is out of the question now with him lurking around all night . Now I know we all get older, and I am trying to be empathetic, but I am not ready for the glue factory just yet and to be sitting around the house all day complaining and reminiscing about the good all days. And his negativity is starting to rub off on me. After all he had his time and his fun (And he had plenty of it), and I want to have mine. Is it wrong if I am thinking about moving on from him? He really has no other family around so I would feel bad if I did, but it is starting to irritate the hell out of me. I want a roomate who is gay, fun, Active and not full of constant complaining. Another good thing though is he has a good job and he pays his rent on time the full amount no questions.  Advice?

[Guest Kapo8701]

Communication is key in any relationship friendship including roommates. If y’all are not in a relationship. Just tell him you want your privacy and to respect it. Have two roommates here both have medical issues both are a little Lzy I tell the I work 5-6-7 days a week don’t want to do their dishes. They respect it. 

[wood]

I’m assuming if you say you charge him below market rate, you are on the mortgage/lease and are in control. 
 

Anyway, the simple fact is you need to feel comfortable in your own space. I had an impromptu “house guest” from March-June that went on way too long.  He was and still is going through a lot, but at the end of the day it’s also not my problem. 
 

frankly it sounds like you already made your decision and while you may feel bad for a bit, it’s probably time to part ways. I’d give him a 60 day notice and move on.  I’d leave it as something like “I respect you, but for both of our sake it’s time to part this living situation” 

I don’t see things getting better based on the frustration in your tone and even entertaining him staying or some conversation of it will most likely just end up in more frustration. 

[ejaculaTe]

In a totally perfect world, Roommate agrees to leave without any fuss. But if he refuses to leave voluntarily, you have bought yourself a real big headache. Because Roommate pays you rent, the two of you have a landlord-tenant relationship, and that's true even if there is no written lease. If Roommate refuses to leave, you just can't put him and his belongings on the curb. Instead, you'll end up having to file an eviction action; if you think the atmosphere is tense now, just wait until a process server gives Roommate the eviction complaint. I hesitate to recommend that you talk to a lawyer because lawyers don't come cheap. But an improper eviction can expose you to substantial liability (like a few thousand dollars), and eviction actions are real technical, making it easy for regular folks in your position to screw up their case. I totally sympathize with your desire to see Roommate move out, but I also wanted to give you a perspective you may not have imagined.

[akula]

up his rent

[drscorpio]

I think it’s time to have a talk. Tell him what needs to change for him to stay. Then let him decide. 

[Guest]

what i did is put house up forsale told him he had to find a new place as i was moving  after he moved out waited 3 weeks and took off market  was very easy that way

[bareback-flipflop]

I think, it’s a very complicated situation. If you wouldn’t write that you have bad feelings about his loneliness, etc., one could suppose that you are selfish. However, slowly I learn it that we have only one life. And we have to love our life fully. You have to put on the question, which the more important is. Don’t worry about his feelings, live with attractive roommates and pay your accommodation costs yourself or care about him, enjoy his generosity and give up the totally freedom. Maybe he supposes that he can expect more care regarding his financial support (because I think that paying other’s costs, even though partly, is a support).

Nevertheless, I agree with the comments that suggested to communicate with him. Be gentle and open for understand his problems. Ask, if you’re lifestyle is embarrassing for him. Note, if he won’t change, you must leave. At the and of that discussion, you will see, whether he can change or it’s better to leave.  

 

[ErosWired]

@BlackDude - I’m going to give my answer in two parts. Part I is going to take your question from a practical, perspective. Part II is going to dig a little deeper. You’ll have to decide for yourself where the important points are.

PART I

It’s unclear from your post what your exact position is with regard to the property. You say you charge below market rates, so that implies that you own rather than rent or lease the property yourself - is having a roommate a financial necessity to cover a mortgage or to meet other financial needs, or do you rent the space simply because you don’t want to live alone, or just want the additional income?

If having a renter is not imperative, it might be possible to simply say that you have decided to stop renting your room. After he departs and resettles elsewhere, a ‘situation could arise’ making it necessary to rent again - to somebody else.

If having a renter is imperative, all the more justification for an increase in the rent, which, if you own the place, have no contact to the contrary, and are not subject to rent controls, you have the right to do at your discretion. It may be that the only thing keeping him in the place is the cheap rent. Tell him that, times being what they are, you’re going to have to start charging a value that reflects the market. If necessary, you can let this mean the high end of the market, until you find a figure he decides isn’t worth paying.

 What would happen if you lived the gay life you wanted as though he simply weren’t there? Is your discomfort with him seeing you go out at night to hook up because you’re embarrassed at what he thinks of it, or because you’re worried about hurting his feelings? In the first instance, that’s your problem; in the second, that’s his, and not something that need constrain you. If the fact that he’s awake with the light on and door open is spooking your hookups, then you are absolutely within your rights to tell him he’s cock-blocking you and to ask him to close his door after a certain hour.

You don’t specify what he’s complaining about, only that the complaints are increasing. Are any of his complaints legitimate and being ignored? Before you complain to him about his complaints, make sure you’ve actually listened to him.

Which brings me to:

PART II

Your friend of several years is, by your description, facing a situation eventually experienced by all men, some with greater difficulty than others - mid life. Mid-life awareness is often not easy to cope with, and illness, especially chronic illness, can make it especially difficult and lead to a spiral into depression.

Mid-life awareness as a gay man is a whole other Circle of Hell. There is a strong sense if the End Times being upon you - helplessness, regret, foolish gym memberships, embarrassing exhibitionism, and desperate manscaping can result, followed by a collapse into bitter despair once it becomes obvious that the mirror isn’t a goddamn liar.

The psychological battle of coping with mid-life, worsened by stress and illness, can absolutely produce the effects you see in your friend. Inability to sleep, lack of motivation for daily activities like chores, darkened mood state, dissatisfaction with life, suppressed libido - these are all classic symptoms of a person having a hard struggle with depression in response to a major life change. He needs help, not an eviction notice.

You say you’ve been this man’s friend for years, yet you characterize the changes in him simply in fuckbuddy terms - he’s become a problem for you because (one assumes in order of importance) 1) He’s no longer young and interested in hooking up with you, 2) He’s no longer entertaining, just annoying because of his complaints, 3) He’s cramping your gaywheeling lifestyle/he doesn’t work as a wingman, and 4) He isn’t even worth keeping as a household servant because he doesn’t do chores. You say “I’m trying to be empathetic” - are you actually?

Have you looked at the problem you want to solve from any angle other than getting rid of him? Have you considered the possibility that addressing his unhappiness might resolve some or most of your issues?

This only applies, of course, if you are actually friends - if you have a relationship deeper than the transactional level one has with fuckbuddies or friends-of-convenience like people who are merely roommates by circumstance.

My mother always told me we make two kinds of friends: ‘friends of the road’ and ‘friends of the heart’. Heart friends are your close circle, your forever friends, your BFFs. Road friends are the people whose lives swirl around in complement to your own, but do not fuse to yours. Which type is this man? Is he friend enough that you care enough about his well-being to sacrifice some of your own for it? Or are you merely friend-ly? The answer to this may guide how you proceed.

There is nothing wrong with you wanting to live a lifestyle of your choosing that pleases you. There is no moral or ethical standard that places a duty on you to abandon your own happiness because another person cannot find his. If you choose to try to help another person as well, that speaks well of you, but his burden is not yours.

Do not, however, make his load any heavier if you can help it. If you can’t help him, then don’t dick him around, don’t try to manipulate him, don’t backstab him, just give it to him straight. Lay it out. Give him his options. A man who feels as though he’s losing the ability to control his life wants to know where he stands, and what his choices are so that he can be the one who makes those choices for himself.

My recommendation is that before you try anything else you do what @drscorpio says above, and talk to the man.

[SmoothATLVers]

Living alone only way to go. If the issue is money I would get a second job before I had a non lover roommate. Can't put a price on freedom and happiness. 

[BootmanLA]

7 hours ago, SmoothATLBttm said:

Living alone only way to go. If the issue is money I would get a second job before I had a non lover roommate. Can't put a price on freedom and happiness. 

That's good in theory, but not always practical. There are places where notes/rents are so high that even two jobs full-time isn't enough to cover the cost. We don't know where the OP lives, but that is a potential factor.

Secondly, that's a great theory if you're starting from scratch. But as several have noted, the guy already lives there, and whether the guy is subleasing from the OP who is himself leasing, or whether he's leasing part of a place the OP owns , many jurisdictions have fairly strict laws on lessor/lessee obligations. Many others have passed Covid-period restrictions on evictions. So simply declaring that "living alone [is the] only way to go" is not exactly helpful advice for this particular situation.

[BootmanLA]

I would echo most of what ErosWired wrote, above. First, ascertain what your legal options are, and yes, you may have to consult with an attorney where you live. It may be that you simply can't get rid of him at this point; it may be that you can't get rid of him for a set period. It may be that you can't raise his rent if you have an agreement in place about that, written or otherwise. And the less of it that's written down, the more that may be subject to the legal "defaults" in your area - which can lean very pro-tenant or very pro-landlord, depending on the governing philosophy in your jurisdiction.

The bigger question, though, as ErosWired notes, is the ethical/moral issue of turning someone out who has few resources to go somewhere else. You might be legally allowed to give the guy 30 days' notice and expect him to be gone then (that would be the case where I live, assuming he doesn't have a written longer-term lease). But you might also be a real shit for doing so, depending on his circumstances.

Without more background - all those questions others above me here have posted - there's no clear 'right' answer. But one way to look at it is: if I were in his exact position, and I were frustrating my landlord, what would I want him to do with regards to me, and what would I be willing to do in order to heal this breach? Walk a mile in his shoes and see what you come up with.

[SmoothATLVers]

22 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

That's good in theory, but not always practical. There are places where notes/rents are so high that even two jobs full-time isn't enough to cover the cost. We don't know where the OP lives, but that is a potential factor.

Secondly, that's a great theory if you're starting from scratch. But as several have noted, the guy already lives there, and whether the guy is subleasing from the OP who is himself leasing, or whether he's leasing part of a place the OP owns , many jurisdictions have fairly strict laws on lessor/lessee obligations. Many others have passed Covid-period restrictions on evictions. So simply declaring that "living alone [is the] only way to go" is not exactly helpful advice for this particular situation.

True. My remark more general advice than specific. My experience come from a career in financing real estate and seeing all the drama from these types of living situations....particularly after you are old enough to make it financially on your own. 

[evilalex]

Y'all need to have a household meeting and talk about this shit. I don't think you're wrong for asking the ? I'd be annoyed too. 

[BlackDude]

On 8/23/2020 at 7:31 AM, ErosWired said:

@BlackDude - I’m going to give my answer in two parts. Part I is going to take your question from a practical, perspective. Part II is going to dig a little deeper. You’ll have to decide for yourself where the important points are.

PART I

It’s unclear from your post what your exact position is with regard to the property. You say you charge below market rates, so that implies that you own rather than rent or lease the property yourself - is having a roommate a financial necessity to cover a mortgage or to meet other financial needs, or do you rent the space simply because you don’t want to live alone, or just want the additional income?

If having a renter is not imperative, it might be possible to simply say that you have decided to stop renting your room. After he departs and resettles elsewhere, a ‘situation could arise’ making it necessary to rent again - to somebody else.

If having a renter is imperative, all the more justification for an increase in the rent, which, if you own the place, have no contact to the contrary, and are not subject to rent controls, you have the right to do at your discretion. It may be that the only thing keeping him in the place is the cheap rent. Tell him that, times being what they are, you’re going to have to start charging a value that reflects the market. If necessary, you can let this mean the high end of the market, until you find a figure he decides isn’t worth paying.

 What would happen if you lived the gay life you wanted as though he simply weren’t there? Is your discomfort with him seeing you go out at night to hook up because you’re embarrassed at what he thinks of it, or because you’re worried about hurting his feelings? In the first instance, that’s your problem; in the second, that’s his, and not something that need constrain you. If the fact that he’s awake with the light on and door open is spooking your hookups, then you are absolutely within your rights to tell him he’s cock-blocking you and to ask him to close his door after a certain hour.

You don’t specify what he’s complaining about, only that the complaints are increasing. Are any of his complaints legitimate and being ignored? Before you complain to him about his complaints, make sure you’ve actually listened to him.

Which brings me to:

PART II

Your friend of several years is, by your description, facing a situation eventually experienced by all men, some with greater difficulty than others - mid life. Mid-life awareness is often not easy to cope with, and illness, especially chronic illness, can make it especially difficult and lead to a spiral into depression.

Mid-life awareness as a gay man is a whole other Circle of Hell. There is a strong sense if the End Times being upon you - helplessness, regret, foolish gym memberships, embarrassing exhibitionism, and desperate manscaping can result, followed by a collapse into bitter despair once it becomes obvious that the mirror isn’t a goddamn liar.

The psychological battle of coping with mid-life, worsened by stress and illness, can absolutely produce the effects you see in your friend. Inability to sleep, lack of motivation for daily activities like chores, darkened mood state, dissatisfaction with life, suppressed libido - these are all classic symptoms of a person having a hard struggle with depression in response to a major life change. He needs help, not an eviction notice.

You say you’ve been this man’s friend for years, yet you characterize the changes in him simply in fuckbuddy terms - he’s become a problem for you because (one assumes in order of importance) 1) He’s no longer young and interested in hooking up with you, 2) He’s no longer entertaining, just annoying because of his complaints, 3) He’s cramping your gaywheeling lifestyle/he doesn’t work as a wingman, and 4) He isn’t even worth keeping as a household servant because he doesn’t do chores. You say “I’m trying to be empathetic” - are you actually?

Have you looked at the problem you want to solve from any angle other than getting rid of him? Have you considered the possibility that addressing his unhappiness might resolve some or most of your issues?

This only applies, of course, if you are actually friends - if you have a relationship deeper than the transactional level one has with fuckbuddies or friends-of-convenience like people who are merely roommates by circumstance.

My mother always told me we make two kinds of friends: ‘friends of the road’ and ‘friends of the heart’. Heart friends are your close circle, your forever friends, your BFFs. Road friends are the people whose lives swirl around in complement to your own, but do not fuse to yours. Which type is this man? Is he friend enough that you care enough about his well-being to sacrifice some of your own for it? Or are you merely friend-ly? The answer to this may guide how you proceed.

There is nothing wrong with you wanting to live a lifestyle of your choosing that pleases you. There is no moral or ethical standard that places a duty on you to abandon your own happiness because another person cannot find his. If you choose to try to help another person as well, that speaks well of you, but his burden is not yours.

Do not, however, make his load any heavier if you can help it. If you can’t help him, then don’t dick him around, don’t try to manipulate him, don’t backstab him, just give it to him straight. Lay it out. Give him his options. A man who feels as though he’s losing the ability to control his life wants to know where he stands, and what his choices are so that he can be the one who makes those choices for himself.

My recommendation is that before you try anything else you do what @drscorpio says above, and talk to the man.

I think I should have provide more clarification: yes it is my house, free and clear. But the extra money is nice, esp as a homeowner. He is a friend, and gay, but we never have and never will hook up. Some of his complaints may be Legit if he was paying more, but if your not paying for any utilities, have no furniture or housewares, it’s kinda hard to take seriously. Plus, I know if he ever meets someone he would leave at the drop of a hat (it wouldn’t work out and he would beg to comeback). He’s that dude that’s never been stable. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by BlackDude