CAN MEN LOOK AT YOU AND KNOW YOU ARE GAY FAG? OR ITS NOT SO OBVIOUS?

[Guest]

No doubt they can.  The catch is when I want the attention I can adjust and be as butch or fem as I think will get the needed type of attention.  
 

In average situations it is more chance as I like  clothing that may be more fem and less traditional.  And any gag my age knows how to a fag it up to near drag level exaggeration 

 

Movements and my companions can tell more than my clothes.   Some of my friends are like wearing a neon sign.  But what the hell. No matter how I present if they are annoyed them what the hell.  The reaction is more about them then me

Of course an old homo always reserves the right to flame  it up a few notches to burn some prick trying to show he is a prick 

[BannedWord]

11 hours ago, hntnhole said:

I happen to be able to whistle A 440 on demand.  I can play any song I know in any key on a piano. I'm able to "listen" to any work I know, from Mozart to Ma Rainey, "in my head" at any time I please. Having perfect pitch is more of a curse than a gift, however.  Every single flaw (pitch-wise)* is instantly evident, in recordings - particularly at concerts - in commercials on tv**, on and on.  

This was always one of my rationalizations of why I could never be gay: I don't like showtimes and I cannot coordinate colors. 🤣😂 (I'm joking, I know that's totally stereotypical). I think people can make the inference if a male's voice has effeminate characteristics or the mannerisms are such that it's almost imitational to traditionally female affectations, yes, people don't have much doubt that they're projecting their gayness. 

But first, this brief interruption: "Men on..." : [think before following links] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95QRYSNnS3o

In case the inference ever needed an example to illustrate. 🤣😂 Back to the post.

In reality, I've known both guys that don't outwardly project gayness in that way and ones who do. A former workmate of mine tried insanely hard to never project he was gay by referring to his significant other as "she" or "her" and keeping a good bit of his personal life away from the office. The group photo of him and the 'guys' getting together -- every one a gym rat, all very physically chummy with each other in a way most heteros aren't -- and when he would get impassioned about a topic just how he would express it were pretty much giveaways. I saw him having Thai after work with his boyfriend and said hi, and he was really embarrassed (why I'll never know). When he finally was going to "come out" to his other work colleagues, he asked me "how do you think they'll react?" I couldn't stop laughing for a full minute and finally said, "Like 'finally you're admitting it, it's about damn time'." He looked at me with a shocked expression and I said to him, "I put it together when I met you dude, it's not going to shock them and they'll treat you the same way." 

On 3/22/2022 at 5:02 PM, ErosWired said:

My inability to cruise is baked in - it’s part of the Autism package. A guy could be signalling at me for an hour in such a way that everyone in the room is saying, “Get a room, for Christ’s sake,” and I would have no clue. Someone would have to either day something absolutely explicit to me - “I want to fuck you” - or actually grope me on my ass or crotch before I would twig that something was up.

Interestingly, though, even though I can’t pick up on most nonverbal cues, I find that there’s something about the timbre of gay men’s voices that sets them apart from straight men. It’s a quality I can’t really define, but it presents regardless of whether the man is an extremely masculine, deep-voiced, straight-acting type, or a femme, willow-wand queen, or a timid submissive. I guess you could say that sometimes I can hear gayness even if I’m blind to it.

@ErosWired, out of curiosity, I'll throw out the term Asperger Syndrome (even though it's now rolled into the spectrum). The characteristics you mention sound associated. Am I far off on that one? Had a former classmate with whom I remain really good friends, but she exhibited a lot of that during the time I knew her then where she could be oblivious to the world and become very obsessively focused on certain actions or behaviors.

 

 

 

[ErosWired]

3 hours ago, TheSRQDude said:

I'll throw out the term Asperger Syndrome (even though it's now rolled into the spectrum). The characteristics you mention sound associated.

That’s it exactly. I have an Asperger’s diagnosis. The ‘lumping’ of everything Autistic into one seamless spectrum for purposes of psychiatric convenience is by no means a widely accepted decision, and many of us still self-identify as Aspies.

@hntnhole - I don’t, however, think that what I’m describing in terms of the sound of men’s voices is something I pick up on by being Autistic, other than that being Autistic forces me to be a bit more observational of other people to try to pick up on subtle cues. I don’t think I have any special ability in this regard; I think the vocal quality is there for anyone to discern. It may be that I have a good “ear” for spoken language, and that I may detect nuances, but the quality I’m talking about isn’t in the words, or the content, or their delivery. It’s not a question of affect. Timbre is the best term I can think of at the moment to describe what I mean.

[Pozguyinchi]

I don’t think outwardly I look gay. Just like I don’t look poz. I do know I sound gay and have mannerisms that are gay. I was in West Hollywood a few weeks ago and while waiting for a drink at a bar I started talking to a couple of ladies waiting as well. They were sort of rude at first then they became really friendly and talkative with me. After a few drinks one of them admitted she thought I was trying to hit on them at first and they were married and didn’t want any of that. They then said after I started talking they knew I wasn’t looking for a hook up. I laughed because I know what I sound like. Lol

[hntnhole]

6 hours ago, ErosWired said:

I don’t think I have any special ability in this regard; I think the vocal quality is there for anyone to discern.

As regards timbre, most folks can tell the difference between the sound-quality - or difference in timbre - of a clarinet vs. an oboe. Both instruments get their "voice" via a vibrating reed, which is carved differently for each.  In the case of the potential of some certain quality in the vocal apparatus of a gay man, as opposed to a straight man, there must be more to it.  Or, by extension, the receptive organ, in that the production of sound vehicle isn't the operative thing, the receptive vehicle is?  

Having an Autistic nephew, I may know a tiny bit more than some about Autism, merely because it is, in a sense, "closer" to me than some other facets of humans.  That said, I know very little, and need to explore a lot more.  My nephew isn't particularly musically inclined, whatever - if anything - that might mean.  I need to do some in-depth exploration of Asperger Syndrome, and look for any correlation.  

I find the very notion of the special gift you describe astounding, and my curiosity has received a sound* kick in the ass.  

Thanks again for the most interesting reply.

*apologies - couldn't resist ......

[chipygmalion80]

+1, voice can be a quick giveaway.  But I don't think about this much.

I don't sound like that SNL skit linked above but I think guys know.

Sexually confident guys don't care anyways IMO.  I think guys who are confident in their own skin don't really care who sucks their cock.  Pigs!  LOL!  I've had plenty of str8 married/gf guys get rather close to me -- like all touchy even in public. 

Last week, I was going to dinner with coworkers, we were lined up to walk to the table, and the older married coworker was behind me, and he clearly tapped my ass. 😮  He's all about sports during the subsequent dinner chat while I'm all geeky.  Sadly I'm still too scared to do anything with coworkers though I did make a mental note that his hotel room was on the same floor as mine! -- I've heard coworker stories and don't wanna risk it.  Anyways, he was confident enough to make a sexual gesture to a gay in potentially risky public situation.  So who cares what we sound like?! 

Str8 guys that stay way back and basically don't want anything to do with you b/c they know you're gay -- I think that's playing with fire.

... fun flashback to SNL all the same! 🙂

[BannedWord]

51 minutes ago, hntnhole said:

Having an Autistic nephew, I may know a tiny bit more than some about Autism, merely because it is, in a sense, "closer" to me than some other facets of humans.  That said, I know very little, and need to explore a lot more.  My nephew isn't particularly musically inclined, whatever - if anything - that might mean.  I need to do some in-depth exploration of Asperger Syndrome, and look for any correlation.  

I have a younger relative who is profoundly autistic, mainly non-verbal. But...

He knows people by smell, so he walks up to them closely and smells them by his olfactive senses, which are apparently very acute. And he can watch you do something once and have it mastered. For instance, I've noted that when I've taken things apart and reassembled them he will go back, find the exact same tools, and repeat the effort with precision. Once it's been seen, it's committed to his permanent memory and he can forever do that task. So if he's watched me brew coffee, for instance, and I tell him later by showing him the machine to "go make coffee", he'll do it. We have yet to understand not only what causes autism but how it wires the map of the brain as it does.

I'm inclined to think that rather than a binary definition of autism, there truly is a "spectrum" going from very slightly to profoundly. 

8 hours ago, ErosWired said:

That’s it exactly. I have an Asperger’s diagnosis. The ‘lumping’ of everything Autistic into one seamless spectrum for purposes of psychiatric convenience is by no means a widely accepted decision, and many of us still self-identify as Aspies.

Thought so. The friend I know who is an Aspie will not refer to herself as Autistic. 

As an aside, I had a boss (now ex-boss), we'll call him Peter Griffin. 😃 I'll contend to this day that Peter was also an Aspie. He would do things that demonstrated a complete lack of perception and self-awareness about his actions. I once looked up the traits for Aspergers and damn if he didn't tick all the boxes. Others had the same impression. Unfortunately, his lack of self-awareness and actions resulted in the company being sued for his harassment of employees and him being discharged for the complaints (they called it a re-org, but one person was already out the door and it just looked better to ax Peter at the same time under that guise).

[BannedWord]

37 minutes ago, chipygmalion80 said:

I don't sound like that SNL skit linked above but I think guys know.

... fun flashback to SNL all the same! 🙂

Well touch me in the morning then just walk away. 🤣😂

Actually, the whole series of skits was from Fox's "In Living Color". Someone's going to complain at some point about them being politically incorrect, but I just think they're hysterical. 

[ErosWired]

1 hour ago, TheSRQDude said:

As an aside, I had a boss (now ex-boss), we'll call him Peter Griffin. 😃 I'll contend to this day that Peter was also an Aspie. He would do things that demonstrated a complete lack of perception and self-awareness about his actions. I once looked up the traits for Aspergers and damn if he didn't tick all the boxes. Others had the same impression. Unfortunately, his lack of self-awareness and actions resulted in the company being sued for his harassment of employees and him being discharged for the complaints (they called it a re-org, but one person was already out the door and it just looked better to ax Peter at the same time under that guise).

That is not an accurate nor flattering comparison. The animated Peter Griffin isn’t characterized as being an Autist, he’s characterized as being an obnoxious moron. (And I can’t stand to watch the show.)

Unfortunately, the fate of your real-life “Peter Griffin” is all too common among people with Autism. Neurotypicals - non-Autistics - react negatively because we do not always conform to Neurotypical standards of what is socially “normal”, and pass summary judgment in us. More often than not, I find myself being labeled an asshole for absolutely no reason I can figure out; it’s just that some NT got his feathers rubbed wrong because I didn’t act the way he was expecting - or because I was too honest.

One often hears talk about looking for a “cure” for Autism, as though it were a disease. I do not need to be cured, thank you. My brain is simply wired differently. Not wrongly - differently. The fact that my brain does not output the social cues that comfort Neurotypicals is not my problem, but theirs. It only becomes my problem when they begin to act ugly about it, call me names, defame my character, and physically assault me at my workplace (all of which actually happened).

The most simplified way I can explain what being Autistic is like to someone else is this: The world around us constantly bombards us with stimuli - signals of all types coming from all directions nonstop, sights, sounds, smells, tastes, textures. For the average person, his brain automatically has a kind of filter that blocks out most of the incoming information and only selects what’s most relevant in a given context. Thus, you might notice another guy coming on to you because you were receptive to such signals (and for most men here, any context will do).

An Autist, however, doesn’t have an automatic filter. All the signals come driving in from all sides all the time, and it’s confusing, frustrating, and even painful because we’re so sensitive to it all. We have no choice but to set up mental - and sometimes physical - barriers to wall off as much of the input as we can just so the world becomes a manageable place. This is why Aspies hyper-focus on things; they’re hyper-not-focusing on everything else. If I’m in a bar with music and lights, There’s very little chance of my noticing a guy wagging his eyebrows at me because I’m too busy trying to keep from being overwhelmed by the light and the noise.

This oversensitivity to stimuli is both a curse and a gift; although it causes many problems, our adaptation to it also allows us to concentrate on things more intensely than most people, and sometimes allows us to observe and sense things more keenly than those with a filter.

The animated Peter Griffin is just a crass, imbecilic buffoon. The one there whose mental wiring is a mystery is Lois - why in God’s name would anybody marry him?

[poztwinksrhot]

On 3/23/2022 at 1:45 PM, hntnhole said:

Yet, it never dawned on me that gay men might possess some quality in their voice that could be recognized by other gay men.  Would it be related to some kind of overtones?  I would guess not.  Would it be related to Autism, and only Autistic men can discern it?  On a pipe organ, the "tongue" in the pipe can be "voiced" with amazing precision to reproduce the various voices in an orchestra.  E.M. Skinner was a master at voicing, and there aren't many organs left bearing his magnificent voicing. Might your ability be related to the origin of vocal sounds in the throat?  Perhaps there's some particular construct within the ear, allowing you this special gift? 

That brings up a good point.  I'm not he most terribly astute person when it comes to 'gaydar'.  Whether it be that someone's hitting on me, or just that someone's gay, many times you'll have to hit me over he head for me to figure it out.  When it comes to voice though, there are some people who just scream it.  But why?

When you hear people from different areas of the world, say from the deep south of the U.S., from England, or from Australia, usually within a few sentences you can figure out where they're from.  Their bodies aren't any different.  They picked up that accent from growing up there and hearing other people in their home and around them talk like that, so it's geographic and learned, but not physiological.

When you hear people from different cultures talk, you can often pick up on that by listening too.  Many times when I hear someone from afar, I can tell right away if they're black.  In that case it's neither geographic nor physiological, because the characteristics often span regions.  It must be cultural, because, once again, they grew up in those households surrounded by people who talked a certain way.

Then we have gay guys.  Being gay happens in all parts of the world and spans cultures.  I haven't heard any evidence that being gay is in any way physiological, certainly with regards to vocal chords.  Most gay guys grow up in an environment where they are the only gay one in their household, and in my era at least, the only one that they knew or saw before they reached adulthood or late puberty.  Yet with many of them, even as boys, you can listen from the next room over and say "Yep, he's one of us." If it's not due to being around other and learning their inflections and it's not physiological, then why?  And why do other gay guys (like myself) not have that characteristic in their voice?

Very curious...

Edited March 24, 2022 by poztwinksrhot

[BannedWord]

1 hour ago, ErosWired said:

(selected sections for brevity and relevance) That is not an accurate nor flattering comparison. The animated Peter Griffin isn’t characterized as being an Autist, he’s characterized as being an obnoxious moron. (And I can’t stand to watch the show.)

Neurotypicals - non-Autistics - react negatively because we do not always conform to Neurotypical standards of what is socially “normal”, and pass summary judgment in us. More often than not, I find myself being labeled an asshole for absolutely no reason I can figure out; it’s just that some NT got his feathers rubbed wrong because I didn’t act the way he was expecting - or because I was too honest.

An Autist, however, doesn’t have an automatic filter...This is why Aspies hyper-focus on things; they’re hyper-not-focusing on everything else.

The animated Peter Griffin is just a crass, imbecilic buffoon. The one there whose mental wiring is a mystery is Lois - why in God’s name would anybody marry him?

I agree with you that the characterization as Peter Griffin is not very charitable. At the risk of veering from topic, however, it's spot-on accurate for him. The traits you cited applied to him, especially the lack of a filter when needed and the hyper-focus on specific items that will never get out of their crawl. And unfortunately, even a physical side-by-side comparison of character versus real-life or vocal expressions were also dead-on for character versus boss. People universally used that to reference him to avoid others knowing that he was being discussed.

Not attempting to cast any disparagement on you, ErosWired. I barely know you but for posting here, we've never met, so there's no way any judgment of mine would be remotely fair, so please don't consider this as a discussion or comparison of you. Hopefully you'll get to know that's not my intention with people (which is why I refrain more and more from certain discussions).

And in my case, watching the show is somewhat therapeutic since I can crack a hearty laugh based on my own experiences that I've since left behind and view him as 'crass, imbecilic buffoon'.

Maybe we should talk about Stewie Griffin since we're discussing perceived gay vocalizations. 😃

[BlindRawFucker1]

I’ve had only one person tell me that I was giving off gay vibes.

 

Several times, I’ve taken cabs to a gay bar or bathhouse, and the driver has asked me if I knew that it was gay related.

 

I’ve also been asked that by bartenders and bathhouse attendants.  I’ve even had guys ask me why was at a gay bathhouse.

 

That could all be for two reasons.  I’m blind, so can’t be gay.  Or, I’m just not perceived as gay.

 

Trust me, I do like dick.

[hntnhole]

4 hours ago, poztwinksrhot said:

If it's not due to being around other and learning their inflections and it's not physiological, then why?  And why do other gay guys (like myself) not have that characteristic in their voice?

Very curious...

Thanks, poztwinksrhot, for sharing your thoughts.  I have been stewing on this for a day or so now, and I'm no closer to an answer than when I started,  Read up on Asperger, picked around on Google, and found nothing satisfactory.  

I'm assuming EW was not referencing a culturally-learned dialect or manner of speaking.  We all know so-called "queenie" types of usage, and that's great if the guy talking like that thinks it's right for him.  Everyone picks up their local dialect, patterns of usage as little kids, but it seems EW was referencing something far deeper than merely dialects.  

I happen to think highly of ErosWired's intellectual capacity, and his superb communication skills.  There must be something he experiences that most of us don't; otherwise he wouldn't have alluded to it in the first place.  He mentions "filters" that most of us have, but he doesn't.  Perhaps that's where the answer lies.   I'm still exploring, and if there's an answer out there, I'll find it.  I'm one of those guys that sinks my teeth in when I want to know something, and I shake it like a dog shakes a toy until I figure at least some shred of an answer out. It's just too fascinating a possibility not to explore it.

[ErosWired]

5 hours ago, TheSRQDude said:

And unfortunately, even a physical side-by-side comparison of character versus real-life or vocal expressions were also dead-on for character versus boss.

Just because someone is Autistic doesn’t mean he can’t also be an obnoxious moron. We’re just like everybody else in most respects, and have all kinds of personalities, even regrettable ones. Your guy just may have been one of those idiots that gives all Autists a bad name.

5 hours ago, TheSRQDude said:

Maybe we should talk about Stewie Griffin since we're discussing perceived gay vocalizations.

2 hours ago, hntnhole said:

I'm assuming EW was not referencing a culturally-learned dialect or manner of speaking.  We all know so-called "queenie" types of usage,

That’s the point I was trying to make about it not being about ‘affect’ - it’s not about noticing the intentional vocal style a guy adopts to broadcast or emphasize his homosexuality, whether it be the stereotypical ‘lithp’ (accompanied by the weakly articulated wrist), or an intentional raise of pitch, or the use of signalling language like calling other men ‘sister’ or ‘girl’. It has nothing to do with all that claptrap. It’s organic.

 If he’ll forgive my asking, I’d be most curious to know if @BlindRawFucker1 might have any comment regarding this. I imagine his auditory acuity must be particularly sensitive to subtle variations, but I don’t want to put him on the spot.

[ErosWired]

7 hours ago, poztwinksrhot said:

And why do other gay guys (like myself) not have that characteristic in their voice?

What makes you assume you don’t? Just because you can hear it in others doesn’t mean you could hear it in yourself. Have you ever listened to a recording of your own voice and thought, That doesn’t sound like me at all - it’s because your perception of your own voice is modified by the effect of the vibrations also passing through the tissues of your skull and influencing the ear internally. The voice you hear yourself speak isn’t the voice everyone else hears, because they’re not inside the echo chamber of your skull.

Edited March 24, 2022 by ErosWired