IMPORTANT: Big changes coming to hookup sites and apps

[rawTOP]

This is just a heads up since we all depend in one way or another on hookup sites and apps which in turn depend on paid memberships…

Mastercard is changing the rules (and Visa is sure to follow suit). In the near future any site with adult content will now have to…

1) Validate the identity of all users who upload content. This means you will need to upload government ID to every hookup site/app you use and they will need to validate that the ID is authentic and belongs to you.

2) Require anyone uploading adult content to obtain and maintain WRITTEN consent and age verification for each person in the image. This means to upload a picture of your dick or your ass you'll need to sign a form consenting to both having the picture taken (even though you took it) and having it uploaded (even though you uploaded it). And you'll need to sign a form verifying your ID at the time the pic was taken and save a copy of your ID in your files. You then need to maintain those documents for as long as the pic is on the site. If the pic contains another person, then you need all those documents for them as well.

Now it's possible the sites could require that you be the only person in the images you upload and that they have you digitally sign consent and age verification documents at the time of the upload (you will already have uploaded your ID). But what if they have data breach and a hacker gets all that information? Do you really want your name, address, etc. made public along with your X-rated pics? Unless you have an exposure fetish that's sorta a nightmare scenario.

This means paid hookup site/app memberships are a thing of the past. That may sound great, but the sites/apps depend on that revenue. And the new rules require they do a lot of work - verifying your identity and verifying the legality of each image you upload. I don't see how they can survive. At a bare minimum they'll stop sponsoring events, membership prices will go up (to cover the additional staff needed to comply with the rules and the members who leave their sites/apps). It's not going to be pretty.

For years now the credit card companies have dictated what adult content you see. There is adult content that's legal that they don't approve of that you never see. There's a literal war going on against porn and it's the cause of all these changes. It started a few years ago with states like Utah passing measures saying porn was a public health hazard. (There's no scientific evidence to support that claim). And then they progressed to claiming that all sex work is "sex trafficking" (when that's not the case at all). Then they went after PornHub for enabling sex trafficking when Facebook's issues with sex trafficking are literally like a thousand times greater. (PornHub had major legal issues, but they were with piracy, not sex trafficking.) Then they appeared before legislators in Canada (where Mindgeek is headquartered) trying to get the owners of Mindgeek arrested. (Mindgeek owns most of the straight porn industry, including PornHub, as well as significant parts of gay porn - like Sean Cody, Men.com and Reality Dudes.) The law enforcement folks who were called kept repeating that they're not aware of any laws that were broken and hence couldn't arrest anyone. Then there were calls by the most extreme agitators to actually kill the owners of Mindgeek. (Which sounds a lot like one of ISIS' "fatwahs"). And now the (under construction) home of one of the owners of MindGeek just got burned to the ground by an arsonist, which means the calls to kill the owners need to be taken extremely seriously.

In the middle of all that the anti-porn folks have been pressuring Visa and Mastercard to be stricter with adult content. MindGeek deleted 80% of the content on PornHub, XTube, etc. just to please Mastercard. And now Mastercard is going further and getting stricter with adult content. The straight folks don't really care what happens to hookup/dating sites. Most of the dating sites on the straight side of the business are fraudulent (none of girls actually exist - they're all chat bots). And the few legit ones could probably go PG-13. But that's not the case with LGBT+ sites. We're not going to join a PG-13 site.

The bottom line here is that sex and porn are political. The reason why I had a very hard line against the pro-Trump folks last fall was because they're the ones going after porn and the gay community. The whole anti-porn thing is wrapped up in the QAnon belief that there's a huge amount of child sex trafficking. The hysteria over that is what's driving all this. I have a niece who feels like she needs to wear a gun on her otherwise her kids will be snatched at any moment and sex trafficked. She's college-educated and both of her parents are scientists. It's just bonkers.

But the point is politics matters. Who you vote for matters. Whether you vote matters. Whether you write your elected officials matters.

[rawTOP]

I should add that the sites I'm developing will be free sites. The only site that will take credit cards will be a store where you can buy t-shirts, sex toys, etc. My strategy is to operate on a shoestring. What I've found running Breeding Zone is that you guys are my greatest asset. It's really about creating a community and having the community take care of itself. The "I just joined the site and I'm upset I can't send 100 messages a day" mindset comes from paid sites where you pay for the right to do things. On this site and even more so on my new sites, you'll earn the right to do things. There will be a points system where you get more rights and perks the more you help the site – posting high quality content, reporting things to moderators, etc.

[rawTOP]

I should also mention that the earliest these changes will go into effect will be this fall. And it's possible that Mastercard will change the new rules to accommodate hookup sites before then.

[RawCumboy1723]

Ugh. Speechless. 
 

Start accepting crypto (despite the learning curve). 
Get creative. Let’s create a middleware company that sells intangible credits that can be used for subscriptions at other sites. We already live in the grey area. Let’s push the limits of workarounds. 
 

I’m a developer, willing to help build/test/operate if I can. I’m sure there are more of us here too. 

[11bi11guy]

59 minutes ago, RawCumboy1723 said:

Start accepting crypto (despite the learning curve).

This ☝🏼 They just started a new joke/meme crypto called CumRocket specifically designed for adult sites. There will certainly be a culling separating the crypto that will survive from the ones that won’t, but today’s joke crypto is tomorrow’s currency.

[ErosWired]

Posting content and reporting to the moderators doesn’t pay the electric bill to keep your servers running, or your refrigerator full of groceries. Do you anticipate your merchandise site bringing in sufficient revenue to maintain operations? Have you considered any means by which you could accept donations toward operating expenses? You’re not running a nonprofit, but nonprofits are no strangers to running things on a shoestring and there might be something to be gained from looking at that playbook.

 I don’t see how any of the sites will survive either. Even if they do manage to implement measures that will make it possible for them to comply with these draconian strictures under some kind of paid business model, their customer base will depart in droves because the requirements are simply too burdensome  and invasive.

But if those behind this actually think they’re going to put a stop to people acting on their base desires, they’re utterly deluded. Look at how well Prohibition worked out for the Anti-Saloon League - a decade worth of speakeasies and bathtub gin that made the time so lively they called it “Roaring”. Humans are creative, horny ones are notoriously devious, and gays have generations of experience flying under the radar. This might actually force us to put down the damn screens and cruise each other in the flesh ... and that might not be such a bad thing. If your new platforms help usher in a new era, then I say more power to you.

[EricX]

8 hours ago, rawTOP said:

I should add that the sites I'm developing will be free sites. The only site that will take credit cards will be a store where you can buy t-shirts, sex toys, etc. My strategy is to operate on a shoestring. What I've found running Breeding Zone is that you guys are my greatest asset. It's really about creating a community and having the community take care of itself. The "I just joined the site and I'm upset I can't send 100 messages a day" mindset comes from paid sites where you pay for the right to do things. On this site and even more so on my new sites, you'll earn the right to do things. There will be a points system where you get more rights and perks the more you help the site – posting high quality content, reporting things to moderators, etc.

Thanks for having our backs. 

[RawCumboy1723]

3 hours ago, ErosWired said:

You’re not running a nonprofit, but nonprofits are no strangers to running things on a shoestring and there might be something to be gained from looking at that playbook.

There’s no reason this couldn’t classify as a non-profit if so organized. Again, stretching the limits, could classify as literary and educational. I’m not advocating this, I don’t own the site, but we gotta get creative to stay alive. 
 

It’s getting easier and easier to do things on a shoestring budget now with the advent of cloud services. It’s easy to scale up and down as needed; and you can run apps entirely serverless now, which don’t even use individual servers but smaller services that in many cases are much more cost effective. (They’re basically pay per use.) 

Not that any of this is possible for this site. I’m not sure how the backend is run but I would assume it’s a standard server app. 

 

[AirmaxUK]

9 hours ago, ErosWired said:

This might actually force us to put down the damn screens and cruise each other in the flesh ... and that might not be such a bad thing. I

This could be the silver lining - I've always preferred cruising in the flesh. Too many guys use the apps/sites for a wank at the idea of meeting which makes the signal to noise ratio very low. 

16 hours ago, RawCumboy1723 said:

Start accepting crypto (despite the learning curve). 

This was my very first thought. VISA/Mastercard/Amex are too powerful and dominant to the point they can now dictate how we behave. We need an accessible, reliable means of online payment that people can use with confidence that has no central control. Crypto may be the answer, but isn't easily accessible yet for non-geeks. That needs to change to make it succeed. 

17 hours ago, rawTOP said:

 On this site and even more so on my new sites, you'll earn the right to do things. There will be a points system where you get more rights and perks the more you help the site – posting high quality content, reporting things to moderators, etc.

So, this is a currency in itself.  It is an interesting direction some things are going: things like the Helium network reward operators with HNT crypto currency - and you can trade it on Binance for BTC or USD.  

[kiwiguyuk]

Incredibly frusrating that US based evangelicals are successfully pressuring these international financial companies to bent to their puritanical views that impact users across the rest of the world. Thanks for the heads up.

[rawTOP]

I should mention that I was thinking through the whole Mastercard problem with one of the owners of Raw Fuck Club (not Owen Hawk - the other one that very few of you know). Anyway, he was thinking that since the apps (Grindr, Scruff, etc.) satisfy Apple's content guidelines, that they might not be considered "adult content or services". In which case they'd be exempt from Mastercards rules (as is Twitter, despite being one of the biggest porn sites on the planet and taking credit cards for advertising).

IF the apps are exempt (that's a big IF), then the web-based hookup sites would have to follow suit and do what the apps do - so all public pictures are PG (or maybe PG-13 if Mastercard allows). But can you imagine BarebackRT with no public dick or ass pics? IMHO, that would just be weird.

 

On 4/27/2021 at 5:32 PM, ErosWired said:

Posting content and reporting to the moderators doesn’t pay the electric bill to keep your servers running, or your refrigerator full of groceries. Do you anticipate your merchandise site bringing in sufficient revenue to maintain operations? Have you considered any means by which you could accept donations toward operating expenses? You’re not running a nonprofit, but nonprofits are no strangers to running things on a shoestring and there might be something to be gained from looking at that playbook.

Breeding Zone barely pays it's own expenses. The money I make mostly comes from my porn sites - e.g. BBBH.com, etc. None of my sites take credit cards. Instead I get my money by referring people to porn sites, and then I get either a percentage of the sale or a flat fee for referring the customer. This is why I've been so slow to get the hookup sites I've been working on off the ground - my porn sites are a higher priority.

 

On 4/27/2021 at 11:12 AM, RawCumboy1723 said:

Start accepting crypto (despite the learning curve). 
 

Some porn sites have tried taking crypto. Almost none of the customers used it when it was offered as an option. That said, if Mastercard goes strict on these new rules and it's life or death for hookup sites, I can see gay guys figuring out how to pay with crypto.

And honestly, that's the holy grail for porn/adult sites. They pay crazy amounts in fees to credit card companies that would be gone with crypto. And chargebacks are impossible with crypto. The only downside is I don't think you can do automatic rebilling with crypto.

[fskn]

2 hours ago, rawTOP said:

since the apps (Grindr, Scruff, etc.) satisfy Apple's content guidelines, that they might not be considered "adult content or services". In which case they'd be exempt from Mastercards rules

I was wondering about this, but I think it's different again, because apps distributed exclusively through Apple or Google's app stores, with no corresponding Web service, browser extension, or downloadable software, use Apple or Google as their payment processor. They don't have to contract with credit card processors, and aren't directly subject to rules imposed by MasterCard or Visa (although they are, as you mention, subject to the severe restrictions on adult content imposed by the app stores).

There are of course other permutations. Media services like Bandcamp, Amazon Music, and Amazon Prime Video, which compete directly with Apple services, distribute their apps in the Apple App Store but don't use it as a payment processor. Users can access their existing libraries in the apps, but to buy new content, they have to switch to other platforms, such as a Web site or a program downloaded to a computer. These services necessarily contract with credit card processors.

The password manager 1Password, and many VPNs, use a different model. They offer mobile apps, browser extensions, and software that can be downloaded to a computer. They accept both app store-based and direct payments, so they definitely have contracts with credit card processors.

The app store restrictions and the forthcoming credit card restrictions definitely take away some freedoms.

I believe that app store restrictions are, on balance, a good thing. I can accept having to share my naked pics in private channels in return for knowing that an app's publisher can't, without my explicit permission, track me beyond the app, share my contact list and my location history with third parties, and so on. I also appreciate knowing that there are clear policies for subscription renewals, refunds, and other payment-related issues.

Paying by directly by credit card also provides important safety benefits to consumers. Laws and regulations govern transaction errors and disputes, and sometimes excuse payment if services are not received or are not as promised.

I don't, however, agree with credit card company restrictions on porn. These are arbitrary, knee-jerk policies. The New York Times article that kicked off the restrictions was a sloppy piece of journalism, based on anecdotes — extreme cases, at that — rather than on systemic evidence. Shocked readers won't stop to ask whether the problems are truly widespread, and whether there are solutions short of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

One potential payments solution is a good old fashioned postal money order in the mail. It's anachronistic and almost subversive. It requires extra processing work and can't give the user instant gratification, but it is one way around excessive restrictions from credit card companies. (Taking a wider view, it also requires that porn purveyors and adult social apps continue to have bank accounts. The marijuana industry, in states that have legalized, still faces limited access to banking. Now that they've convinced MasterCard to essentially stop serving online adult companies, the pearl-clutchers may well target commercial banks that are willing to do business with adult companies.)

I don't think cryptocurrencies are a workable solution in the US. There would be a steep learning curve for ordinary consumers, and real questions about consumer protection. But the biggest deterrent is line at the top of IRS Form 1040, requiring anyone who has and cryptocurrency dealings whatsoever during the year, to check a box.

[Guest]

Personally I think it's a good thing. I love RawTop and now that I'm a total Truvada whore and serious about meeting guys I'm even more so and want to meet more guys.  I'm in my mid-forties, I look like a sexpot in stockings, I'm totally feminizing and RawToo please let me know if you're ever free!   Besides the gay my straight friend and I have a number of skanks to show you.

 

[Oldercumslut]

I"m guilty of not having given the chance that the fringe "christian" or evangelical groups could actually affect my life enough thought.  I use the term christian loosely.   The honest believers I know don't have the time for things like that.  Instead of moving forward we seem to be moving backwards to the Puritan days.

[boTtomboi200]

I forget who was saying it before, but if this happens consider all the bars, adult stores, rest areas, and theaters to be packaged again. Only problem is, most of them are closed!! The ones that didn't got hid hard by covid. RIP Machine Ramrod RIP!! They will rebuild however, gay night here, new gay bar there...you can't keep the lgbtq community down for long.