Why is San Francisco cruise/sex venue scene so incredibly depressing?

[rawfuckr]

Just got the email that Horsemarket was cancelled this upcoming weekend due to low ticket sales. This got me thinking on how incredibly tragic the sex/cruise venue scene is here in the city. There's just nothing left.

442Events at Transform1060 is about the only think I can think of, but it's populated by tons of weirdos, empty often and somehow they can't manage to have properly functioning toilets.. in a venue where people do what they do.  Venue configuration is also barebones and just not great. Most people stopped going after they left the Natoma location. 

I travel to Europe often and things over there are just a world of difference. London, Paris, Berlin!, Madrid, Barcelona.. they all have tons of sex venues that are popular and absolutely happening in 2023.  SF IS a very gay place, but can't figure out why this scene is so absolutely dead.

[muscmtl]

Problem when with wealth, the wealthier the place the more boring the people. 

[Guest]

I also think it doesn't help that SF never pulled back from the 80s era closing of bathhouses. 

[fuckholedc]

44 minutes ago, evilcoyote said:

I also think it doesn't help that SF never pulled back from the 80s era closing of bathhouses. 

Okay, but there were bathhouses in other places just outside of SF.    It's not like the Bay Area didn't have at least some sex clubs including bathhouses over the past 40 years.   

[NWUSHorny]

I see the same problem in Portland, it is perfectly acceptable to be openly gay and indulge in any and every fetish or kink, just don't ask them to fuck. They know at least 1001 ways to have "really great sex if you promise not to touch my icky dick and I promise not to touch your icky dick." The bathhouses both host events that cater to the men who want to see and be seen as gay but aren't into casual sex, it is probably the only way to keep the doors open.

[partying.hard]

I’ve been saying this to Friends even before the pandemic. It was utterly disappointing and at times, depressing what happened to this once fabulous and sexually hedonistic, uninhibited city.

[hntnhole]

We had an office in LA, and always made a side-trip to SanFran when there was area staff meeting out there.  San Fran was magical - almost too much to take in.  There was so much of everything - like a triple smorgasbord of every facet of our queer lives ....

I think Gay San Fran just burned itself out from the sexual heat of it all ... sort of like too much of a fantastic thing.  Of course, hiv ripped things apart too, and maybe the magic in the air just never recovered .... I don't know .... but I'm damn glad I got to experience some of it.  

[PissGuzzlerLA]

Here's another viewpoint, and it's a two-parter.

First, (and I know opinions are very spirited on both sides of this one) now that there are multitudes of hookup apps, it feels to me like a lot of men don't have the same drive to go out and meet men face-to-face, or go to events when they can find someone online to get off with. Of course it's not the same as going to a sex club, party, or other event, but for many of them, convenience wins out the majority of the time. I for one much prefer going out and letting things happen based on physical chemistry rather than photos and conversation that may or may not be accurate.

Second, (also spirited opinions on both sides) cruising used to seem more edgy and exciting. We had spaces that were more protected and everyone there was on the prowl. Now that the dwindling gay spots we have left are filled with gays, straights, bachelorette parties, etc, they don't seem so special anymore. Bars that once had strict dress codes, men-only spaces, dark rooms and so on can seemingly no longer survive on the old model and they need any customers they can draw in. Some people, me included, don't enjoy getting down and dirty with drunken Shelley and her bridal party shrieking five feet away. This sounds like an issue mostly limited the US though. From conversations I've seen, Europe doesn't seem to have this problem, or if it does, it's at least to a lesser extent. While acceptance and not having to hide anymore is generally a good thing, it has watered down the experience. What I've mentioned applies to regular bars, though, not necessarily sex clubs or fetish events. I've been to plenty of fetish events that have both men and women, gay and straight going at it like the pigs we are, and in that context I have no issues with the mixed crowd. Everyone there is like-minded. I guess in the end, there are still safe spaces, things have just shifted a fair bit.

[Guest]

if all of those guys meeting and fucking on the apps weren't on those apps...I mean they'd have no place else to go, right? They'd have to come down to the venue. But the trend toward limited communication via apps is everywhere; Starbucks, the grocery store, banks, gyms. We want to find new ways to not randomly meet each other, even though our brains are social, and randomly crossing paths with another person is usually a good thing.

I don't know why in SF and not Berlin.  I don't know any place in the US where the public sex scene is thriving. 

[Spunkinmyarse]

Could it be something to do with cost? I can’t recall exactly how much it was, but when I saw the price of a ticket for the SF Horesemarket event, I remember thinking it seemed very expensive.

The cost of entry to many events and/or sex venues in Berlin and Spain is rather low:  €10-15 maybe, and that might get you a free drink (or even two if it’s happy hour)…

[hntnhole]

14 hours ago, PissGuzzlerLA said:

cruising used to seem more edgy and exciting

That's for sure !!!  Yes, it's a lot easier these days to just hit the fuckjoints and get down to it, but if there's a downside to the fuckjoints, it that the edginess is missing.  Every guy is doing every other guy - which is great, I'm not complaining - but that whiff of celebrating the "forbidden" has been replaced by the thrill of every guy, dozens and dozens and dozens of them, celebrating their Lusts, fucking/getting fucked by every other guy. 

It's still really special, just in a different way. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by hntnhole
correct an awkwardism

[BBDreamer]

I think it's several things coming together in The City. Cost of space is through the roof. If you go somewhere cheap, the neighborhood is crap and dangerous. Can't imagine what insurance costs are in a place like this, and labor in SF is very costly. Well established places like Steamworks in Berkeley are still around. And on Sundays, the line still goes out the door. But that area too is really developing. A very popular shopping area is just up the street and many new lab buildings are being built in the other direction. But other than Steamworks, there's not much here in the Bay Area. Even the Watergarden in San Jose closed some years ago. And, I really think the Internet really changed our culture. 

[lycis]

SF was fuckin awesome pre pandemic. Contrary to what people are implying here that things died "because of apps" years ago, I was getting tons to great action at parties and events all the way up to 2019. Loads of seedy parties going on, especially Atlas ran ones like Truck, and parties at the old 442 location. I remember going to a random Truck Tuesday, nothing even special going on during that week and there were at least 50 guys there actively participating. The truck they ran during folsom was SHOULDER TO SHOULDER, even just walking down the hall was easy to slip in. I remember going to a dore party from someone who was just running their own thing and lived close to the action and there were at least 100+ guys going hard. Cumunions actually had people there and fucking.

It was easy to 10-20+ loads in a night, and it didn't have to be a big special event.

Then covid happened, and ALL the parties shut down, none of them came back.

Horsemarket started up but it's a very specific vibe and its incredibly overpriced for what it is (but its the kind of price they can afford to charge during folsom... outside of folsom? LOL good luck). There's Pighaus but their parties only run maybe 1-2x a year since they're mostly based out of NYC and they too are incredibly overpriced for what it is.

I agree with other comments. I think what happened was for some reason, the cost of these events just shot way, way up. So you can't really go to them often, which means you only ever bother going to them when you *know* they are going to be populated like for Folsom, otherwise it just isn't worth dropping $30 cash to do a Cumunion party at 1040 transform where most people just watch and there's not that many people there. On top of this, I think a lot of people just left SF when remote work started - its one of the biggest exodus regions in the US during covid.

It really sucks, because now I'm actually quite close to SF so it easier than ever to casually go to these kinds of parties now but it just isn't worth the crazy cost and there just aren't that many of them any more. At least we still have Folsom/Dore, but its a bit disappointing to feel that everyone just "saves their load" for those two times in the year when it wasn't like this in 2017-2019.

 

One slightly good thing though is some of the circuit parties have taken up the slack. I get lots of action at parties that Fog City Pack throw. The last one I went to (beta) actually had a proper fuck area that people were more than happy to use.

Edited October 25, 2023 by lycis

[NWUSHorny]

I'm curious, did San Francisco see a brief but big increase in cruising fucking after COVID? Here in Portland the summer of '21 was the best I've ever seen it, and I've lived here since '07. Things tapered off gradually until Monkeypox hit in the summer of '22 before unfortunately returning to normal.

[Close2MyBro]

San Francisco just isn't safe anymore. I've had friends leave because of the out of control drugs and crime, and I've had friends from So Cal tell me they'll never go back again after seeing what the city has turned into.