Any LGBT+ Republican individual out here?

[BootmanLA]

On 2/12/2024 at 11:15 AM, Rawcumchaser said:

They're both totalitarian

That's just false. Absolutely, categorically false. 

[BootmanLA]

On 2/11/2024 at 8:16 PM, barefucker44 said:

MAGA republican here bud

and

On 2/11/2024 at 8:21 PM, barefucker44 said:

Conservative here man.  Like 40% of the gay community

Which is it? MAGA and conservatism have zero overlap. Conservatism, at its heart, recognizes that change and progress are necessary, but should be undertaken at a reasonable pace so as not to disrupt too much at once, and so that unintended consequences can be handled.

MAGA is radicalism - knee-jerk, reactionary radicalism, which at its core is based on nothing more than fear or loathing of "other" - as in, "them". Trump said it on the first day of his campaign, in 2015, when he talked non-stop about "them" (ie the governments of poorer, browner nations) sending us criminals, rapists, murderers, and he's never shut up about it. That's the core of MAGA - "us" vs. "them". And that's been Trump his entire life - always fighting, always suing, always bullying, always trying to throw his weight around. Sometimes it works and he gets his way; other times he gets nothing but publicity, which he still considers a win. But always - ALWAYS - it's "us" (meaning HIM) vs. "them".

And he sold that garbage to millions of Americans, pretending that he was just like them, always fighting the oppressor, while hiding the fact that HE is exactly the kind of person who's oppressing the working and middle class.

What's sad is how so many LGBT people jump on that bandwagon, whether it's because they, too, share his bigotry and prejudices, or whether they believe his thousands of outright lies and thousands more misleading statements. Even when the party he represents makes no secret of the fact that they are committed to destroying LGBT equality - overturning same-sex marriage, reinstating sodomy laws, etc., they pretend that will never really happen.

That's what people who believe in abortion rights thought (not the activists, who recognized the danger, but the millions of suburban women who thought It Could Never Happen Here). Those people thought Roe was settled law, even if the courts were chipping away at the edges, and "they" would always be safe - because they're moderate to conservative white women in America. And then the Republican Senate stole a Supreme Court nomination from Obama to give to the next Republican president, and then rammed through another just a few weeks before the 2020 election, all to pad a majority on the Supreme Court that would do EXACTLY what Republicans had been promising to do for decades, and which too many people believed they just wouldn't.

The Republican platform still calls for repealing same-sex marriage. For reinstating sodomy laws. Even if blue states decide to protect LGBT people, red states - Florida, Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee, etc. - either still have bans on same-sex marriage and laws criminalizing sodomy on the books or will rush to pass them the moment the Supreme Court again decides that "well, back in 1789, these weren't protected, so they aren't protected now either." 

And that's just the selfish, personal reason LGBT voters should reject Trump (and GOP candidates for Congress) - self preservation. That doesn't even touch the massive giveaways of taxpayer money to the wealthy, many or most of whom pay much lower tax rates, in total, than teachers or police officers or bus drivers. Or auto workers or tech support people.

Or Trump's stated, clear intention to abandon NATO, where he unequivocally said he'd invite Russia to invade any of its neighbors and not stand up to support this nation's allies - with whom we have a fucking treaty, mind you, obligating our support.

Or Trump's horrific ripping away children from undocumented immigrant families at the border WHILE NOT EVEN KEEPING RECORDS OF WHERE THE CHILDREN WERE SENT - with hundreds still unaccounted for. A president who screamed about human trafficking actually CONDUCTED human trafficking, and his supporters cheered - proof that they support him because they hate the same people he does.

Or the fact that Trump keeps calling for more and more tariffs, knowing that his supporters are too dumb to understand that tariffs are NOT paid by the producer of the goods in question, or by the producer's country. They're paid by the US importer who brings those goods into the country, which has to then raise prices as he sells them to wholesalers and manufacturers, which raises prices to the consumer. Yes, YOU, the consumer, are the ones who pay tariffs, and yet MAGA nuts go wild, thinking that their guy is gonna stick it to them Commie Chinese bastards!

I could go on, and on, but: I know it's useless. Most MAGA supporters lack the will to understand what their pseudo-Lord-and-savior is pushing, or else they lack the capacity, but they do respond to the raw emotional appeal he has, encouraging them to hate and blame "them" - foreigners, liberals, whomever - for their troubles. 

[barefucker44]

3 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

and

Which is it? MAGA and conservatism have zero overlap. Conservatism, at its heart, recognizes that change and progress are necessary, but should be undertaken at a reasonable pace so as not to disrupt too much at once, and so that unintended consequences can be handled.

MAGA is radicalism - knee-jerk, reactionary radicalism, which at its core is based on nothing more than fear or loathing of "other" - as in, "them". Trump said it on the first day of his campaign, in 2015, when he talked non-stop about "them" (ie the governments of poorer, browner nations) sending us criminals, rapists, murderers, and he's never shut up about it. That's the core of MAGA - "us" vs. "them". And that's been Trump his entire life - always fighting, always suing, always bullying, always trying to throw his weight around. Sometimes it works and he gets his way; other times he gets nothing but publicity, which he still considers a win. But always - ALWAYS - it's "us" (meaning HIM) vs. "them".

And he sold that garbage to millions of Americans, pretending that he was just like them, always fighting the oppressor, while hiding the fact that HE is exactly the kind of person who's oppressing the working and middle class.

What's sad is how so many LGBT people jump on that bandwagon, whether it's because they, too, share his bigotry and prejudices, or whether they believe his thousands of outright lies and thousands more misleading statements. Even when the party he represents makes no secret of the fact that they are committed to destroying LGBT equality - overturning same-sex marriage, reinstating sodomy laws, etc., they pretend that will never really happen.

That's what people who believe in abortion rights thought (not the activists, who recognized the danger, but the millions of suburban women who thought It Could Never Happen Here). Those people thought Roe was settled law, even if the courts were chipping away at the edges, and "they" would always be safe - because they're moderate to conservative white women in America. And then the Republican Senate stole a Supreme Court nomination from Obama to give to the next Republican president, and then rammed through another just a few weeks before the 2020 election, all to pad a majority on the Supreme Court that would do EXACTLY what Republicans had been promising to do for decades, and which too many people believed they just wouldn't.

The Republican platform still calls for repealing same-sex marriage. For reinstating sodomy laws. Even if blue states decide to protect LGBT people, red states - Florida, Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee, etc. - either still have bans on same-sex marriage and laws criminalizing sodomy on the books or will rush to pass them the moment the Supreme Court again decides that "well, back in 1789, these weren't protected, so they aren't protected now either." 

And that's just the selfish, personal reason LGBT voters should reject Trump (and GOP candidates for Congress) - self preservation. That doesn't even touch the massive giveaways of taxpayer money to the wealthy, many or most of whom pay much lower tax rates, in total, than teachers or police officers or bus drivers. Or auto workers or tech support people.

Or Trump's stated, clear intention to abandon NATO, where he unequivocally said he'd invite Russia to invade any of its neighbors and not stand up to support this nation's allies - with whom we have a fucking treaty, mind you, obligating our support.

Or Trump's horrific ripping away children from undocumented immigrant families at the border WHILE NOT EVEN KEEPING RECORDS OF WHERE THE CHILDREN WERE SENT - with hundreds still unaccounted for. A president who screamed about human trafficking actually CONDUCTED human trafficking, and his supporters cheered - proof that they support him because they hate the same people he does.

Or the fact that Trump keeps calling for more and more tariffs, knowing that his supporters are too dumb to understand that tariffs are NOT paid by the producer of the goods in question, or by the producer's country. They're paid by the US importer who brings those goods into the country, which has to then raise prices as he sells them to wholesalers and manufacturers, which raises prices to the consumer. Yes, YOU, the consumer, are the ones who pay tariffs, and yet MAGA nuts go wild, thinking that their guy is gonna stick it to them Commie Chinese bastards!

I could go on, and on, but: I know it's useless. Most MAGA supporters lack the will to understand what their pseudo-Lord-and-savior is pushing, or else they lack the capacity, but they do respond to the raw emotional appeal he has, encouraging them to hate and blame "them" - foreigners, liberals, whomever - for their troubles. 

I completely disagree

[topblkmale]

 

TDS

 

[Twochipigs]

2 hours ago, barefucker44 said:

I completely disagree

Why?  And please provide facts to support your position.

[fuckholedc]

On 2/12/2024 at 3:14 AM, BlueSaphir said:

I do not lean right . Will never support GOP. I have not voted for Biden this round of election. I feel both people are the same but on different spectrum. 

Certainly both parties have essentially the same conservative politics for the most part.  Biden is certainly not Trump but he is also incapable of criticizing failed US policies (esp. ecological policies) and effectively leading to something like a progressive future.

[BigBearSean]

Republicans right now in Indiana are pushing YET ANOTHER bill to make trans people's existence illegal and strip away rights like marriage gay people have just barely been able to obtain.  They have, not "are, but HAVE created trigger laws so that the moment SCOTUS rips away same sex marriage like they did abortion, my state can rip away over 700 rights and protections for gay people too.

FUCK! MAGA!  They are literally, in actual practice and policy, no different than nazis in the 1930s.  And any queer persom thinking that their ass isn't ALREADY on the chopping block is as stupid as queer Browncoats acting surprised after Hitler turned on them when their support was no longer needed to consolidate power. We have seen this ENTIRE rodeo play out.  It involves pink triangle and GENOCIDE.  And every single poz or married gay guy here, people who are officially registered with the State, will be their first and easiest targets.

Stop ignoring history and grow the hell up if ypu think the Leopards Eating Faces party won't eat your face too.

[PozBearWI]

10 hours ago, barefucker44 said:

I completely disagree

On what basis?

[tallslenderguy]

On 2/10/2024 at 12:50 PM, tonio said:

That's a perfectly understandable statement. But believe me, we exist (lol). This is not a political website so I am not going to elaborate on "why", but it's interesting to see that even here, we find some diversity in that regard. 

From what i can ascertain, rawTOP started this section on BZ on May 2010 with a post tilled: 

"Post political discussions in this forum" 

Generally speaking, BZ is a discussion forum that, to me, stands out as wonderfully unique and unusual in the gay community precisely because we can discuss things here that depart from the usual. 

i , for one, appreciate anyone who will "elaborate on why"  when they state a position, be it Top, bottom, versatile, queer, trans, republican, democrat, libertarian, liberal, conservative...ad infinitum.   

To me, all of those terms are just starting places, labels that need elaboration to determine their detailed contents.  Without that elaboration, at best, one gets defined by the reader.  

i would suggest, even argue, that it is through elaboration that we find common ground  that can thwart the polarizing effects of generalizations. Generalizations,  catch phrases, are used by unscrupulous manipulators to gain and maintain position and power where very few elite 'win' and the majority on both 'sides' lose.  

i believe it is through sincere scrutiny and elaboration that we uncover substance, what is real. Open discussion, i think, helps us find causes where we can work together, while oversimplification leads to decisions and actions based on absolutist notions that do not reflect the majority. 

[tallslenderguy]

Excerpt from a (long) article: Who Voted for Hitler

"You could say that although Hitler came to power by means of an election and then a negotiation, his success in voters’ and politicians’ minds resulted directly from his willingness to engage in undemocratic, often violent, actions.

Hitler served eight months of a five-year sentence for the attempted putsch in 1923. And rather than denigrate him in people’s minds, it elevated him. He was seen for the next two decades not so much as a dangerous criminal, but rather as a man of action. It was as if the people of Germany weren’t looking for a democratic leader after all, but for one who might present them with an alternative to democracy. A Führer, it turns out, could offer the people something they craved very deeply, a sense of totality that embodies democracy by denying it."

[think before following links] https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-hitler-nazi-fascism/

[BigBearSean]

36 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

Excerpt from a (long) article: Who Voted for Hitler

"You could say that although Hitler came to power by means of an election and then a negotiation, his success in voters’ and politicians’ minds resulted directly from his willingness to engage in undemocratic, often violent, actions.

Hitler served eight months of a five-year sentence for the attempted putsch in 1923. And rather than denigrate him in people’s minds, it elevated him. He was seen for the next two decades not so much as a dangerous criminal, but rather as a man of action. It was as if the people of Germany weren’t looking for a democratic leader after all, but for one who might present them with an alternative to democracy. A Führer, it turns out, could offer the people something they craved very deeply, a sense of totality that embodies democracy by denying it."

[think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-hitler-nazi-fascism/

History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme.  Almost the exact same thing happening right now with Trump and the Republican party.  Especially as they gerrymander, voter suppress, make laws allowing election officials to outright ignore the vote, push fake electors, participate in an ongoing coup, and head their party with a known criminal, rapist, conman, and demagogue who has LITERALLY stated that he will be a dictator if he gets elected again.  Literally.  3 times in a row as Hannity tried to downplay it and give Trump chances to say he "mispoke."

It is utterly insane to me how anyone, ESPECIALLY in targeted minorities like LGBT people, would ever willing vote to put the tyrant who promises to cut off their heads back into office.  And they can stop giving me "but Biden!!!" crap.  Don't vote for Biden.  But don't vote for your actual destruction and the destruction of your community as well.

[hntnhole]

4 minutes ago, BigBearSean said:

a known criminal, rapist, conman,

and draft-dodger .... don't forget the commonly used "bone spurs" excuse to avoid service in the military.  His dad paid off some quack doctor to "diagnose' bone spurs in his stinking feet.  

Some of us knew guys that were called, answered the call, and never returned.  

 

[BigBearSean]

5 minutes ago, hntnhole said:

and draft-dodger .... don't forget the commonly used "bone spurs" excuse to avoid service in the military.  His dad paid off some quack doctor to "diagnose' bone spurs in his stinking feet.  

Some of us knew guys that were called, answered the call, and never returned.  

 

Gay marine here.  Served under Don't Ask, Don't Tell.  When my mere existence in the military was a CRIMINAL ACT.  I've lived under legal threat of punishment for being gay.  Were I could have been from in the brig (jail) for years and dishonorably discharged as legal, federally established punishments simply for EXISTING if I was ever found out.

And that was historically a "light" punishment in America.  Texas was still imprisoning gay people for up to 20 years until 2000 (actual court case not resolved till 2003).  And less than 20 yesrs before that it was legal to murder gay people.  If they weren't tortured in asylums, that is.  Got to the 1970's and earlier and most cops didn't even bother making a criminal report.  Go to the 1950's and you had the Purple Scare, which equated gay people to "communists" and forced them out of government, imprisoned them, and or abused or simply executed (read: murdered) them).

This is OUR history.  Most not even 50 years old.  So for the absolute life, freedom, and safety of me, I can't understand why any LGBT person would EVER vote Republican.  The party pushing to take us all back to these inhumane nightmares.  Because Democrats are... somehow... vaguely... worse...?  Again, don't vote for EITHER party then!

You can readily tell who's lived in privilege when they believe don't really have to care about the consequences of their vote.  I've LIVED under legal persecution.  Fuck ever going back to that!

[hntnhole]

34 minutes ago, BigBearSean said:

Because Democrats are... somehow... vaguely... worse...?  Again, don't vote for EITHER party then!

First, Thank you for your service.

To the quote above, I'm wondering how you arrive at the issue of Dem's are "somehow vaguely worse (than, I'm assuming the Republicans?).  

Worse in what particular way?  Which of the political positions supported by D's (and presumably not the R's?) are you referring to?  There have been many times I haven't supported an entire platform of a given party, but I always exercise my right to vote, particularly the down-ballot positions, which directly impact the community in which I live.  

Thanks.

[hntnhole]

1 hour ago, tallslenderguy said:

but rather as a man of action

That's spot on, and thanks for pointing it out.  

The "issue" of the day, in that nation, was not merely the financial collapse of 10/1929, but the punishing (literally) terms forced upon the German nation by the Treaty of Versailles.  The burden of "reparations" to the Allied countries, along with the financial collapse created a storm of upheaval, upon which the would-be dictator played like Stradivarius. To the world's horror, that "man of action" carried out his policies of genocide eagerly and thoroughly.  

Blaming "the other" - whoever it may be - has often been the cowardly, wannabe-dictator's way in.