Grindr banned in the Olympic Village in Paris (2024)

[hntnhole]

23 hours ago, brnbk said:

and not what you refer to as "Indian" in  U.S. English

On behalf of our Anglo ancestors, I offer an apology for the use of the word "Indian" (which was, and remains, an error) in referring to Native Americans. 

It started, near as I can tell, with the invasion of this continent by Anglos, and became a popular slang-term hundreds of years ago, to divide "us" and "them".  Re-naming the indigenous probably helped our forbears denigrate those who actually survived the mass slaughter of these people, which device was used to such ill effect in denigrating another group of (enforced) immigrants.  

When I've commented on threads wherein issues pertinent to Native Americans are being discussed, I've used that term; likewise regarding our African American brothers and sisters, but I wonder if anyone has even noticed.  

At this point, it's likely useless to attempt to correct this error, but that doesn't excuse the error either.  

[topblkmale]

1 hour ago, hntnhole said:

On behalf of our Anglo ancestors, I offer an apology for the use of the word "Indian" (which was, and remains, an error) in referring to Native Americans. 

It started, near as I can tell, with the invasion of this continent by Anglos, and became a popular slang-term hundreds of years ago, to divide "us" and "them".  Re-naming the indigenous probably helped our forbears denigrate those who actually survived the mass slaughter of these people, which device was used to such ill effect in denigrating another group of (enforced) immigrants.  

When I've commented on threads wherein issues pertinent to Native Americans are being discussed, I've used that term; likewise regarding our African American brothers and sisters, but I wonder if anyone has even noticed.  

At this point, it's likely useless to attempt to correct this error, but that doesn't excuse the error either.  

 

Not immigrants.

Its ok to refer to us as black or black American.

I've always noticed your word choice. My favorite was when you referred to vagina as an orifice. (It is, I know)

(enforced) immigrants is a new one.

 

[hntnhole]

I stand corrected. 

I am "an immigrant", for that matter.  

Still learning is a good thing.  

Thanks.

[blackrobe]

7 hours ago, Poz50something said:

Jeezus! I mean, amid all the global chaos, Grindr being banned in the Olympic Village is earth shattering, isn’t it??!!? This is the hill y’all wanna die on? 

Your point is very well taken but, to be clear, Grindr wasn't banned in the Olympic Village (see the technical facts earlier in the thread).

Despite hysterical (in both senses of the word) protestations to the contrary, plenty of folks will have scored super-fit hole and pole in Paris by the closing ceremonies on August 11. 

[PozBearWI]

When outing people risks their lives; I think providers should attenuate certain services; in particular during times where security measures are already heightened.  

WRT words.  Is anyone else getting tired of the never ending unfolding of "words you can't say"?  They are f-ing words.  If we put binders on words so that one can ONLY say certain things we are, essentially telling them "communicate my way or don't communicate at all"?  How does this help us pull together as a cooperative species.  We seem to have lost the ability to "agree to disagree".  

[BootmanLA]

8 hours ago, PozBearWI said:

WRT words.  Is anyone else getting tired of the never ending unfolding of "words you can't say"?  They are f-ing words.  If we put binders on words so that one can ONLY say certain things we are, essentially telling them "communicate my way or don't communicate at all"?  How does this help us pull together as a cooperative species.  We seem to have lost the ability to "agree to disagree".  

I sort of agree, with a major exception: any population, whether defined by national origin, ethnicity, religion, race, sexual orientation, gender identity, or whatever, gets a veto over names bestowed by those outside the community. The various indigenous peoples of the Americas never consented to being called "Indians" (nor, in fact, were they consulted about lumping them all into one huge category). Many such terms applied by the white majority in power were (and/or are) intended as pejorative at best, vile slurs at worst.

In such cases, there's no agree to disagree; we call people what they ask to be called. 

[brnbk]

On 8/5/2024 at 8:08 AM, Poz50something said:

Jeezus! I mean, amid all the global chaos, Grindr being banned in the Olympic Village is earth shattering, isn’t it??!!? This is the hill y’all wanna die on? 

Many gay men actually have been put to death for having gay sex, so it is a hill with a history....and worth thinking about; the principles behind the issue I raised are worth fighting for.

People in the United States and the West are enjoying the fruits of freedom that Mahatma Gandhi and other Indians fought for: to not be ruled by WASP people and principles and sadly not a whole lot of them are aware of it.  Gay men in the white christian West can now have sex simply because of the struggle of people from the colonized world. 

When Gay men from around the world esp. those from the former colonies gather at the Olympics hoping to have a chance of freedom from oppressive laws in their home countries which where put in there by the white imperial Master to being, Grindr has made it more difficult for them to be free. Imagine what it would be like if you came from a Middle Eastern country like Quarter and where hoping to have some freedom from the Morality Police of your country, only to find that GPS has been turned off where are u; it does not inspire a whole lot of confidence in you that the West is a safe place to be gay!
 

A lot of brave gay men before us have actually been killed on that hill, simply for choosing to be gay — choosing to have gay sex instead of following the prescribed path of heterosexual marriage and children having gay sex, and I always tend to remember that. 

[brnbk]

On 8/5/2024 at 4:52 PM, PozBearWI said:

When outing people risks their lives; I think providers should attenuate certain services; in particular during times where security measures are already heightened.  

When outing people risk their lives providers IMO should accentuate services that will protect their person and property. Thus, if anyone is affected by Outing, the focus should be on increasing alternate services like filling for asylum in a safe country, some kind of police/security protection, awareness about risk reduction by limiting the amount of personal information one shares online(torso pic instead of face pic) etc., instead of reducing certain services to them which would make them feel like its not safe to be gay. 

If you live in a difficult neighborhood/community, one way to protect the gays is  shut down the gay bar but there are alternative and better approaches as well including teaching gay patrons to look out for trouble, increasing police protection of the bar and addressing the difficult question of why homophobia exists in that community/neighborhood. 

Since Grindr operates all over the world it has a moral duty to protect and promote gay interests! 

[PozBearWI]

Thanks for your reply.  We may have to agree to disagree on that one though @brnbk.   Disclosing someone's specific location does nothing to protect a customer.  

Beyond that; hell yeah I think sites catering to us gay folk need to promote our diverse interests.  In my experience gay bars are more often than not in the less desirable areas of their communities.  And so being aware of what is around us is an essential part of being there.  

But if I am a participant at an event like the Olympics, I for one would shut off location features on my own phone first and most likely would not use Grindr but take advantage of the high density healthy co-attendees in person at watering holes and eating places (and I imagine spontaneously created cruising places).  

[BootmanLA]

4 hours ago, brnbk said:

Imagine what it would be like if you came from a Middle Eastern country like Quarter and where hoping to have some freedom from the Morality Police of your country, only to find that GPS has been turned off where are u; it does not inspire a whole lot of confidence in you that the West is a safe place to be gay!

I've seen some really dumb takes on things this week but this - so far - takes the cake.

1. The west is still much safer a place to be, overall, than virtually any country in the Middle East.

2. The fact that the west is till not perfect - and moreover, is going to have lots of morality police types from "back home" trying to catch these athletes in compromised situations - means that, contrary to your bleating, Grindr is proactively taking steps to make it HARDER for the morality police to target their countrymen while in a foreign country.

Whereas in many of those countries, the Secret Police would RELY on those geolocation features to pinpoint where gay men are so they can arrest, torture, and kill them.

Maybe I'm naive but I think when presented with the choice of an app that isn't fully featured but which is making proactive steps to protect these foreign athletes from danger back home, vs. an app that exposes their location to a level that could easily be used to target them, most would choose the former. 

[BootmanLA]

4 hours ago, brnbk said:

When outing people risk their lives providers IMO should accentuate services that will protect their person and property. Thus, if anyone is affected by Outing, the focus should be on increasing alternate services like filling for asylum in a safe country, some kind of police/security protection, awareness about risk reduction by limiting the amount of personal information one shares online(torso pic instead of face pic) etc., instead of reducing certain services to them which would make them feel like its not safe to be gay. 

App providers can't offer asylum. They can't offer police/security protection. They ARE providing awareness about risk reduction, by making it harder for bad actors to figure out they're gay by using geolocation to target them.

For fuck's sake, they KNOW it's not safe to be gay - they already LIVE that back home. The idea that we should present a false idea that hey, it's completely safe to use geolocation even though the secret police are probably using it to see how many users it can identify in the dorm housing their athletes, because getting you laid is a lot more important than ACTUALLY keeping you safe, is just stupidity. Sheer stupidity. 

[Poz50something]

14 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

App providers can't offer asylum. They can't offer police/security protection.

It may have changed quite a bit since I last gave a toss about Grindr, but from what I remember, Grindr didn’t even care one iota about gay culture, safety, human rights….Maybe someone can update me on any changes? Boit man is correct. App providers aren’t offering asylum nor can they. It’s ridiculous to think that they are the answer when their business model isn’t about making gay people safe. It’s about making money through advertising. Why should we expect anything to be other than business as usual? 

[topblkmale]

19 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

I've seen some really dumb takes on things this week but this - so far - takes the cake.

1. The west is still much safer a place to be, overall, than virtually any country in the Middle East.

2. The fact that the west is till not perfect - and moreover, is going to have lots of morality police types from "back home" trying to catch these athletes in compromised situations - means that, contrary to your bleating, Grindr is proactively taking steps to make it HARDER for the morality police to target their countrymen while in a foreign country.

Whereas in many of those countries, the Secret Police would RELY on those geolocation features to pinpoint where gay men are so they can arrest, torture, and kill them.

Maybe I'm naive but I think when presented with the choice of an app that isn't fully featured but which is making proactive steps to protect these foreign athletes from danger back home, vs. an app that exposes their location to a level that could easily be used to target them, most would choose the former. 

 

I'm assuming you're referring to safety for gay LGBTQ people and not safer as far as crime, assault, gun violence and police brutality. Not specifically targeted at gay people.

 

I would question that 'Secret Police' can use geolocation to pinpoint gay men.

 

Edited August 8 by topblkmale

[Poz50something]

1 hour ago, topblkmale said:

I'm assuming you're referring to safety for gay LGBTQ people and not safer as far as crime, assault, gun violence and police brutality. Not specifically targeted at gay people.

but is it really a safe place for LGBTQ people in the West, particularly trans women of colour? 

List of trans women murdered in 2024: 

Kitty Monroe, Phoenix, Az. Jan 1, 

Sasha Williams, Las Vegas, Jan 26, 

África Parrilla García, San Juan, PR, Feb 2, 

Righteous Torrence "TK" Hill, Atlanta, Feb, 

Reyna Hernandez, Mexicali, Mexico, Feb 26, 

Diamond, Brigman, Houston, Tx, Mar 16, 

Alex "Boo" Taylor Franco, Taylorsville, UT, Mar 17, 

Yella Clark, Angola, LA, Apr, 

River Nevaeh Goddard, Stow, Mass., Apr 5, 

Tee Arnold, Hallandale Beach, FL, Apr 3, 

Starr Brown, Memphis, TN, Apr 19,

Andrea Doria Dos Passos, Miami, April 23, 

Kita Bee, Kansas City, MO, May 3, 

Jazlynn Johnson, Las Vegas, May 6, 

Tayy Dior Thomas, Mobile, AL, May 7 , 

Michelle Henry, San Francisco,  May 15, 

Liara Kaylee Tsai, Minnesota, Jun 22, 

Pauly Likens, Clark,PA,  Jun 25, 

Kenji Spurgeon, Seattle, WA, July 1

Shannon Boswell, Stone Mountain, GA, July 2, 

Monique Brooks, Orlando, FL, July 19, 

[think before following links] https://www.hrc.org/resources/fatal-violence-against-the-transgender-and-gender-expansive-community-in-2024

[think before following links] https://www.advocate.com/news/transgender-americans-killed-2024

[think before following links] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/csis-lgbtq-warning-violence-1.7114801

Of course there is incredible violence for POC, but without fail, almost all of the women here were POC. 

 

 

 

[blackrobe]

3 hours ago, topblkmale said:

I would question that 'Secret Police' can use geolocation to pinpoint gay men.

I'd assert that's not in question.

Firstly, it's technically possible. Back in 2019, Pen Test Partners were able to use trilateration to build a map of gay app (Grindr, Recon, Romeo) users locations with the distance data these apps get from geolocation. They published data on the exploit and It looks like only Recon has fixed the problem.

Next, there are many stories from different unfriendly countries of them actually using gay apps to entrap, capture, detain, and torture LGBTQ folks.  It's a probability approaching certainty that techniques like trilateration are being used by police in LGBTQ unfriendly countries to target people.