tallslenderguy Posted October 23 Author Report Share Posted October 23 (edited) Is Trump a fascist? Two opposing views. "Roger Griffin, the author of The Nature of Fascism and a professor of history at Oxford Brookes University, summed it up well: “You can be a total xenophobic racist male chauvinist bastard and still not be a fascist.” Five years have now passed, and the fascism questions have only grown more frequent. Trump has had time to implement quite anti-immigrantand anti-Black policies, and refused to denounce his most extreme and violent supporters, from the neo-Nazis and white nationalists in Charlottesville to the Proud Boys group. And every week, I receive dozens of emails from readers wondering if I stand by my conclusion in 2015, that Trump is simply a bigot with an authoritarian streak, not a fascist." [think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21521958/what-is-fascism-signs-donald-trump Retired Marine Gen. John Kelly, who was former President Donald Trump‘s longest-serving chief of staff, called Trump’s leadership style “dictatorial,” “fascist” and lacking empathy in new interviews this week. Kelly, the highest-profile Trump-era official to publicly criticize the former president, said in an interview with The New York Times that Trump "certainly falls into the general definition of fascist, for sure." “Certainly the former president is in the far-right area, he’s certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators — he has said that,” Kelly said in the interview, published on Tuesday. [think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.npr.org/2024/10/23/g-s1-29490/trump-john-kelly-fascist-dictator Edited October 23 by tallslenderguy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hntnhole Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 For the last 90-ish years, the word fascist (with derivatives) has instantly summoned forth the memory of Hitler, the epitome of the term. That figure, universally reviled, was either substantially more intelligent or more clever than the Hitler-lite cretin we're anointing with that hellish moniker today - or perhaps both., Without going into the whole set-up for the tragedy in Germany, there is little similarity between the two, as I see it. The German was cunning, a brilliant manipulator of the population, able to inspire throngs with patronizing oratory catering to the populations most poisoned inclinations. Our current problem-child is not cunning, he's breathtakingly stupid. He's nothing close to brilliant - he's stultifyingly dull. He is moderately able to manipulate a segment of our population, given that the hatreds he's manipulating have existed for long before his dull spewing rotted word-salad has. The word "cunning" is so inapplicable, I'm surprised the word-processor doesn't refuse to allow it being typed in this context. We're busy summoning up the most reviled figure in recent history, just to demean a truly insipid, dull, stupid, myopic shell of a man, who has as much intelligence in his entire corpulent body as Hitler had in his little toe. That man was a miscreant, just as our current problem is, but he was not stupid. Nor was he brilliant, as some have suggested. What he did possess was the craven thirst for power at any price, which is the only thing the two have in common. The Prussian military machine, pre-dating the hellish Hitler by centuries, is what the blaring trumpet seems to be wishing for. As a matter of history, that military machine served whoever the King of Prussia happened to be, and I rather doubt that anyone named Trumpf* carried royal blood in their veins. * apparently, the original name, before that family emigrated from - you guessed it .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PozBearWI Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 @hntnhole Although Mr T might be cunning in his cult leader methods. Somehow the man has amassed a cult following; which I first OBSERVED first hand in meeting his followers who crashed an SCCA convention I was part of in 2015. When I've listened to him, there is a rhythm and cadence at play which is a bit mind numbing (to my ears). And perhaps that is his skill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWUSHorny Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 He is more Mussolini than Hitler in my opinion. Donnie isn't the leader of this axis, he is Putin's second. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanana Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, tallslenderguy said: Trump has… refused to denounce his most extreme and violent supporters, from the neo-Nazis and white nationalists in Charlottesville Sorry LIBTH this is almost assuredly misinformation ([think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.factcheck.org/issue/charlottesville-rally/). I remember when I used to accept MSM at face value, and the way I felt Completely bamboozled by the edits and mis/dis/mal-information that I had Previously taken at face value. I hope you add skeptical thinking and research to your repertoire it is highly empowering. If you want to sling mud at conservatives fora lack of critical thought thinking, I’m all for it and am sure that with a little practice you could be a great model of evenhanded critical thinking. We’d all be the better for it and for practicing de-escalation and appreciative intelligence rather than demonization. peace! Edited October 23 by nanana Added three words to reduce ambiguity 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEDenver Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 12 hours ago, nanana said: Sorry LIBTH this is almost assuredly misinformation ([think before following links] [think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.factcheck.org/issue/charlottesville-rally/). I remember when I used to accept MSM at face value, and the way I felt Completely bamboozled by the edits and mis/dis/mal-information that I had Previously taken at face value. I hope you add skeptical thinking and research to your repertoire it is highly empowering. If you want to sling mud at conservatives fora lack of critical thought thinking, I’m all for it and am sure that with a little practice you could be a great model of evenhanded critical thinking. We’d all be the better for it and for practicing de-escalation and appreciative intelligence rather than demonization. peace! Trump also wants to remove trans soldiers from the military again. That means that people braver than most of the people here praising Trump, especially including Trump, will be removed from the service. And the Republicans are planning to make pornography a felony and make us all felons by existing. That includes the Log Cabin Sad Bois like y’all. The Republicans both in leadership and the voters hate y’all so much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanana Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 There’s a huge difference between praising someone and forgoing lies about them. There’s plenty real to complain about with Trump as NEDenver may be correctly, or maybe hyperbolically, alluding to. As much as I don’t love Trump I find It hard to understand the TDS he inspires. Maybe we should look to late 19th century health practices for treating hysteria and masturbate our liberal brethren just to calm them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hntnhole Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 (edited) 18 hours ago, PozBearWI said: Somehow the man has amassed a cult following; 18 hours ago, PozBearWI said: perhaps that is his skill. Sadly, I have come to believe that the "cult" you reference has been forming for a smallish number of years. These folks seem to be disaffected by anything and everything. They're not happy with any particular thing, they only know they don't like what happens to be the case at the current moment. Some have the presence of mind to lay the blame for this sense of unfulfillment at this door or that door, some are only able to complain, and most have no idea why they're so unhappy. These folks are unable to figure things out on their own, they're only able to react to the manipulations of other, more clever folks. Thus, in the example at hand (early 20th Century Germany), there was indeed a wound to the German Nation, inflicted by the winners of WW 1, via the Treaty of Versailles imposing "reparations". These were economically crushing, a door into that nations national consciousness, through which the would-be tyrant danced delightedly. Hitler was more adept at taking advantage of current situations than creating them out of whole cloth himself. In that sense, Trump and Hitler are two peas in a pod, but the Austrian guy had the presence of mind to figure out how to seize power first, and then introduce the real horrors. Remember: the election rules in Germany required that any of the many post-war parties there achieve a majority in their Congress (Reichstag) - which is exactly what happened. The nazi party got the most votes in that election, and the President of Germany was therefore obliged to install Mr. Hitler in power, and the rest is horrific history. Mr. T. has neither the mental wherewithal nor the patience (he's gotta win now to stay out of the clink) to bide his time. There is not one whit of similarity between the two men. One started up with nothing, had nothing for much of his earlier life, the other had everything, worked for nothing, grew, both intellectually and physically, has not one semi-interesting proposal to offer, has only one "talent" (that being insulting his betters). If Trump had had the General Staff of Germany at his beck and call, we'd be rid of him already. Those generals would have offed him easily and successfully right off the bat. Edited October 24 by hntnhole 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallslenderguy Posted October 24 Author Report Share Posted October 24 Here's a somewhat prophetic take on Trump post 2020 election from Noam Chomsky... who is neither a lover of the republican or democratic party. i think the whole interview is a worth read, but then, i'm very fond of Chomsky. "One way or another, Trump will leave office soon. But the question that still lingers in the air is whether Trumpism will also be gone. In your view, is there Trumpism without Trump? Returning to my original speculation, I think both Trump and Trumpism will remain with us for a long time, both the individual himself and the poisonous currents he has unleashed. These poisons may be virulent enough to bring civilization to a horrifying end. There are workable solutions to the crises that humans face in this uniquely dangerous moment of human history. What happens within the most powerful country in human history cannot fail to have an overwhelming impact on what eventuates — an impact even on survival of human society in any recognizable form." [think before following links] https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-trump-has-revealed-the-extreme-fragility-of-american-democracy/ 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hntnhole Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 Thanks for posting that quote. What Chomsky may not be taking into account though, is the ease with which disaffected people can get easily-carried/disguised machine guns. It's already happened on hole 5 of his golf course near that ridiculously pompous structure he lives in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanana Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 It's interesting that many here seem to blame Trump for being able to channel the discontent of (just to make a short sentence, yes, could be more precise) the flyover states for watching the Democratic-Republican businessmen export jobs for the past 30 years and divert our money to war, financialization, and other elite interests. I read an interesting analysis that suggests that the real divide in this country is between the "virtuals" (ie, people who could do their job on a laptop from anywhere, who have thus severed any loyalty they have to terroir, tend to be disconnected from a visceral sense of what it takes to build wealth and security), versus the "physicals" (ie., people whose jobs are inherently tied to a location, e.g., farm, construction, the factories that used to be in America but are now overseas, who can see the physical results of their efforts etc.). I am certainly rooting for our liberal friends to mount a less-than-hysterical, less-than-virtue-signaling, empathetic play for the votes of the "physicals," but I don't see it happening as long as they have TDS and catastrophize about Trump's faux pas and style. It would be great to see the Democrats formulate policies that don't destroy the assets of the "physicals," but they keep inflating away the efforts of the "physicals" and giving free money to people who haven't paid into the system, and they seem to have a blind spot as to why people don't trust them anymore. I'd love to see the liberals reclaim their ability to stand for peace, tackle corporate fraud, and (if their economic models can do this, which I truly doubt since they can't tell the difference between creating wealth and redistributing [stealing] it) figure out how to create space for people to benefit from their efforts, which will grow the pie for all. The best way to make a country toxic is to shrink the pie and then lie about it. Failure to understand this is a choice to be hysterical and a choice to have no meaningful insight. Trust me, when people think us faggots are getting something for nothing, all the tolerance will evaporate in a short minute regardless of who we've been voting for. 1 hour ago, hntnhole said: disaffected by anything and everything hntnhole, I bet you can do better than that, watching inflation destroy the capacity of the lower middle class and even middle class to make it is not "anything and everything." it's pretty concrete and puts people in a headspace to lash out about style-of-living issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators viking8x6 Posted October 24 Moderators Report Share Posted October 24 2 hours ago, nanana said: I read an interesting analysis that suggests that the real divide in this country is between the "virtuals" (ie, people who could do their job on a laptop from anywhere, who have thus severed any loyalty they have to terroir, tend to be disconnected from a visceral sense of what it takes to build wealth and security), versus the "physicals" (ie., people whose jobs are inherently tied to a location, e.g., farm, construction, the factories that used to be in America but are now overseas, who can see the physical results of their efforts etc.). I would be very interested to read this, if you can provide a link. I'm not sure I agree (based on that one-sentence summary), but I am firmly of the opinion that the difference between the physical and the virtual is of great importance to the future of this country and of the world, and that in a sense far greater than mere finance. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PozBearWI Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 May I echo @viking8x6 request for a link to the article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallslenderguy Posted October 24 Author Report Share Posted October 24 7 minutes ago, viking8x6 said: I would be very interested to read this, if you can provide a link. I'm not sure I agree (based on that one-sentence summary), but I am firmly of the opinion that the difference between the physical and the virtual is of great importance to the future of this country and of the world, and that in a sense far greater than mere finance. Another take from Noam... he identifies nuclear war and global warming as having "great importance to the future of this country".... and humankind. i like Noam, he seems pretty balanced in his views on politics, isn't nanana's about either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanana Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 I am not sure if this article originates the concept but it explains the concept well: [think before following links] https://theupheaval.substack.com/p/reality-honks-back 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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