Can a sub be agresssive and still a sub

[Roughme101]

I consider myself a submissive bttm with a preference for older Dom tops.

I'll do anything the top wants it makes me so but when it comes to anal play I start to twist n turn things so I can get his raw cock in me, even if he wants to wrap up or just FF. Once inside I'll do anything they want n more but as I'm somewhat agresssive to be used bare can I still call myself a submissive??

[Samanthads]

yes you can be aggressive as a submissive but in your case you just want to be fucked raw with cock thats something that should be agreed with the dom top before you play 

what do you mean by aggression though?

if i was the dom top though i would  still finger your ass tease the hell out of you make you channel that aggression till i put you in your place with a few hard spanks on your ass saying ass up time to get fucked bitch then slide my  cock in you  hard 

[funpozbottom]

2 hours ago, Roughme101 said:

I consider myself a submissive bttm with a preference for older Dom tops.

I'll do anything the top wants it makes me so but when it comes to anal play I start to twist n turn things so I can get his raw cock in me, even if he wants to wrap up or just FF. Once inside I'll do anything they want n more but as I'm somewhat agresssive to be used bare can I still call myself a submissive??

In my opinion, an aggressive bottom takes control to fuck himself on the top's cock. He does all the work to make the top orgasm and milks as much cum out as he can. I usually hear that described as being a "power bottom". A submissive bottom follows the top's direction and allows himself to be used in any way the top desires (within the limits you define). I think most bottoms who are in tune with the top end up doing a mix of both to some extent. What you describe is being sort of passive-aggressive to be a bare only bottom. So I'd say you are a bare only submissive.

[Guest]

Definitely.  I can dial it up and down depending on the situation.  Getting used is my goal.  

[gaynudist61]

Yes

 

[Guest PhillyBBGuy]

Yes he can. But it really has a lot to do with the temperament of the top.

[Pozlover1]

This is a valuable skill  worth more than gold when you work at a dysfunctional place. Control from the bottom. While reassuring the assholes they are still in control. 

[Riverfk]

35 minutes ago, DannyBoyCMH said:

Definitely.  I can dial it up and down depending on the situation.  Getting used is my goal.  

That should be your goal slut-boy, and it depends on the Top's standards too. Btms that are generally easy/aggressive/explicit/confident/skilled score pretty well.

[find91]

7 hours ago, Roughme101 said:

I consider myself a submissive bttm with a preference for older Dom tops.

I'll do anything the top wants it makes me so but when it comes to anal play I start to twist n turn things so I can get his raw cock in me, even if he wants to wrap up or just FF. Once inside I'll do anything they want n more but as I'm somewhat agresssive to be used bare can I still call myself a submissive??

No, because you aren't submitting, you are Trying to Dom from the bottom. True subs listen and respect Their Masters Limits. Just bottoming does not make you a sub, if the top is only into FF and you are trying to manipulate them into fucking you raw you are feed your own goals and needs and not serving your Master or Sir.  You say you'll do ANYTHING the Top wants, but from your statemen, you're doing anything the Top wants as long as it lines up with YOUR needs. That is not submission. Not judging you but I wouldn't call that being a sub or proper sub form. Cumdumps are not subs

To the wider question, yes a sub can be "aggressive" if the Master/Sir tells the sub they like push back, has agreed or seeks Brat play or orders you out right to be aggressive. If Your Dom orders his Sub to fuck another Bottom or Himself the sub is still a sub because he is carrying out his masters will. Sexual roles are not analogous to Sub/ Dom roles. But the moment the sub starts pursuing their own agenda they are no longer acting like a sub.

 

[MassHole]

2 hours ago, find91 said:

No, because you aren't submitting, you are Trying to Dom from the bottom. True subs listen and respect Their Masters Limits. Just bottoming does not make you a sub, if the top is only into FF and you are trying to manipulate them into fucking you raw you are feed your own goals and needs and not serving your Master or Sir.  You say you'll do ANYTHING the Top wants, but from your statemen, you're doing anything the Top wants as long as it lines up with YOUR needs. That is not submission. Not judging you but I wouldn't call that being a sub or proper sub form. Cumdumps are not subs

To the wider question, yes a sub can be "aggressive" if the Master/Sir tells the sub they like push back, has agreed or seeks Brat play or orders you out right to be aggressive. If Your Dom orders his Sub to fuck another Bottom or Himself the sub is still a sub because he is carrying out his masters will. Sexual roles are not analogous to Sub/ Dom roles. But the moment the sub starts pursuing their own agenda they are no longer acting like a sub.

 

Completely agree with this, Sir. However, being "Submissive" doesn't have to mean "passive" either. Most Doms prefer a passionate, emotive, communicative submissive to one who is silent, limp, detached, and completely passive. Being passionate and enthusiastic about your service and submission typically makes it more valuable, useful and purposeful to the Dom. Of course, YMMV depending on the Dom - every relationship has some dynamics unique to the Dom/sub involved.

[ErosWired]

On 12/7/2019 at 12:41 PM, find91 said:

Sexual roles are not analogous to Sub/ Dom roles. 

This! ^  Very well stated, and I often find myself frustrated trying to explain, from a trained submissive’s perspective, that just being a bottom doesn’t make a guy a submissive. A “greedy bottom” is not a submissive.

 I do, however, quibble with your suggestion that “Cumdumps are not subs”. Most cumdumps may not be subs, but a sub can be a cumdump. I am, because that is my form of submissive service. I don’t count success in loads gathered, but in Tops satisfied. My sexual role in life is to provide Men with sexual fulfillment by submitting to their appetite, lust, and desire to dominate. That submission is a joy to me, and feels right and natural. The fact that I may repeat it a dozen times in a night at the baths and end up with a cunt dripping with the cum of strangers makes it no less a submission to any of them. I don’t want any Top to think about what’s in my mind beyond my desire to submit to him. I am to be his fantasy made flesh, and if he does not use me that way, I cannot serve him best.

[tallslenderguy]

On 12/7/2019 at 1:48 PM, n8Warrior said:

... being "Submissive" doesn't have to mean "passive" either. 

This is the exact thought that came to my mind when reading the OP.  There are guys in the D/s community who (on both sides) want objectification, and i see a lot less "submission" going on in that kind of dynamic and a lot more passivity. 

i find a lot of variation and expectation on both sides of the fence of Dom/sub.  Go to a site like Recon and read profiles and many of the Dom's profiles will say "boundaries respected" while others have the expectation of absolute obedience.  Honestly, i think the majority of subs have limits and a big part of D/s relationship is "pushing limits."

 i don't see D/s as simple or subject to the strict black or white definitions some want to use to structure them.  One form of D/s relationship is the expectation that whatever the Dom says, goes.  There is another form though where the Dom doesn't so much expect submission as He wants to elicit submission from His sub.  Either way, in order for "submission" to take place, there has to be volition and someone there who is actually submitting.  

Personally, i land on the latter form.  To me, part of the fun and erotic turn on of D/s is the process of a Dom getting into my head ("mind fuck") and Him gaining control and getting me to submit.  i want to submit,  but to me "submission" requires there be substance to submit The Dom's i have had relationship with have wanted that too.  They don't just want a mindless play thing, but a challenge that exercises their Dominant nature.  

In the OP's case, i'd say the behavior of trying to manipulate or control a top into breeding him is more of a Dom attitude.  Wanting or needing to be bred is different than controlling to get bred.  i think the more developed and understanding Dom gets His subs needs and uses those to control and elicit submission from His sub.  

 

 

[blackrobe]

On 12/7/2019 at 1:48 PM, n8Warrior said:

However, being "Submissive" doesn't have to mean "passive" either. Most Doms prefer a passionate, emotive, communicative submissive to one who is silent, limp, detached, and completely passive. Being passionate and enthusiastic about your service and submission typically makes it more valuable, useful and purposeful to the Dom. Of course, YMMV depending on the Dom - every relationship has some dynamics unique to the Dom/sub involved.

I agree with this and with tallslenderguy's "mind fuck" model of submission. I've discovered that there is something primal in me that shows up when I'm being used well. The first time I growled and aggressively pushed back onto the man's cock I was startled. I think dominants are at their most powerful when they are inside their submissive's mind and body and using their skills to make the sub *want or need* to explore new territory with and for him. It's analogous to martial arts in my mind. There are plenty of showy martial arts moves, but they all leave you open in glaring ways to other attacks. The most effective moves are more contained and less impressive to watch. So with Dom/sub -the showiest dominants, the ones who perform their domination, are not the ones that draw subs like me. 

I don't know what surprises are coiled up inside me waiting for a dominant to stroke and release them. I'd hope that each would be like a surprise for them whether it makes me into a writhing force of nature, or as supple and relaxed as a cooked noodle.

Edited December 9, 2019 by blackrobe

[find91]

6 hours ago, ErosWired said:

This! ^  Very well stated, and I often find myself frustrated trying to explain, from a trained submissive’s perspective, that just being a bottom doesn’t make a guy a submissive. A “greedy bottom” is not a submissive.

 I do, however, quibble with your suggestion that “Cumdumps are not subs”. Most cumdumps may not be subs, but a sub can be a cumdump. I am, because that is my form of submissive service. I don’t count success in loads gathered, but in Tops satisfied. My sexual role in life is to provide Men with sexual fulfillment by submitting to their appetite, lust, and desire to dominate. That submission is a joy to me, and feels right and natural. The fact that I may repeat it a dozen times in a night at the baths and end up with a cunt dripping with the cum of strangers makes it no less a submission to any of them. I don’t want any Top to think about what’s in my mind beyond my desire to submit to him. I am to be his fantasy made flesh, and if he does not use me that way, I cannot serve him best.

I should of been more clear. You are 100% correct a cumdump is not a sub but a sub can definitely be a cumdump. It's all about the pleasure of serving and pleasing a Dom. I said it more because a lot of cumdumps claim and believe they are subs yet they mainly focus on load count and try to rush a top if they are feeling that he is fucking "too long". Missing the entire point of submission. Nothing wrong with being a cumdump or not into being a sub. Just don't advertise as one if you're not willing to commit to the full lifestyle/ role