When does transvestite fetish turns into Trans Identity?

[BootmanLA]

9 hours ago, hungry_hole said:

Male and Female are not leftovers from Victorian Era because these are determined by biological markers that can be determined by DNA analysis. If a man's leg a found in a ditch a DNA analysis will confirm it was a from a man, even if that man "felt like a woman" and imagined being a woman.

As I pointed out above, DNA is not as simple as you think it is. But maybe it's just too complex for some people's minds.

[hungry_hole]

13 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

As for your (frankly sad) suggestion that being trans is about "being able to look pretty and sexy" and the rest of that bullshit, all I can say is: take one look at gay male gym culture, at gay male fashion, at gay male anything, really.

I'm agreeing with you. Men don't need to pretend to be women to get attention because the world of gay sex is quite often about narcissism and looking sexy. That's what I've loved about cruising for sex. I disagree with the premise that only women can be sex objects and I would prefer a social change that wouldn't define women to be the only ones to look pretty. Nowadays men who try to look pretty with women are immediately labelled Narcissist, and this would be a social change that would make sense.

Bruce Jenner could not see himself as a sex object and he couldn't even try having sex with men. So he went thorough a complicated procedure to make him look like a woman so he could feel like a sex object. The attached picture is the evidence. He could have posed semi-nude as a man, but instead he appeared as the sad stereotype that women have in this society: Only women are sex objects.

 

[BootmanLA]

9 hours ago, hungry_hole said:

Bruce Jenner could not see himself as a sex object and he couldn't even try having sex with men. So he went thorough a complicated procedure to make him look like a woman so he could feel like a sex object. The attached picture is the evidence. He could have posed semi-nude as a man, but instead he appeared as the sad stereotype that women have in this society: Only women are sex objects.

Normally I start this kind of response with "With all due respect" but since that amount is fast approaching a negative number, I won't.

You don't have the faintest concept of what Bruce Jenner could or couldn't see himself as.  You can't see past your own transphobic little tiny unimaginative universe, which seems to consist of approximately one individual, and you keep posting on and on and on displaying just how completely ignorant you are about this entire topic.

Just admit you simply are incapable of understanding a concept like transgenderism and shut up with the ignorant, ill-informed opinions as to what it "really" is. Because (with all due respect) you're making yourself look like a complete moron.

[drscorpio]

On 12/25/2020 at 7:59 AM, hungry_hole said:

What I find pathetic about the Trans movement is that the goal of a man "who feels like a woman" is to look like the "traditional sexy woman" who is only valued by her looks.  I thought society was trying to move away from the objectification of women.

I am not aware of a single transperson who has such goals as the principal reason for their transition. I think you might be confusing your bigoted imaginary perceptions as reality. 

[ErosWired]

On 12/25/2020 at 7:59 AM, hungry_hole said:

Having had a penis since birth has shaped by life and I can't believe a person who was born female can ever claim to be a man. Impossible! Similarly, there is no way a person born male can ever claim to be a female without ever having experienced having a female body. It's all imagination.

I'm willing to have my ideas challenged,

It doesn’t sound like you’re willing to have any of your ideas about “impossible “ things challenged.

But just in case you’re able to accept the fact that the knowledge and experience of the community of psychological and psychiatric professionals is indeed superior to your own in this matter, I invite you to educate yourself about the criteria for the formal diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria, as expressed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Vol. 5 (DSM-5). This is the guideline commonly relied upon by mental health care professionals in diagnosing mental conditions that are very real, documentable, and not in any way “imaginary”.

Your personal opinions regarding transgender identity and experience reflect ignorance and bias, and, when set against the weight of professional opinion on the issue, give the strong impression that you are talking straight out your ass.

The American Psychiatric Association has this page on Gender Dysphoria which you may find illuminating. I suggest you review it before embarrassing yourself any further in this thread.

[ErosWired]

The link didn’t edit properly into my original post above. Here it is:
[think before following links] https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

[Guest hungandmean]

On 12/26/2020 at 6:14 AM, hungry_hole said:

I'm agreeing with you. Men don't need to pretend to be women to get attention because the world of gay sex is quite often about narcissism and looking sexy. That's what I've loved about cruising for sex. I disagree with the premise that only women can be sex objects and I would prefer a social change that wouldn't define women to be the only ones to look pretty. Nowadays men who try to look pretty with women are immediately labelled Narcissist, and this would be a social change that would make sense.

Bruce Jenner could not see himself as a sex object and he couldn't even try having sex with men. So he went thorough a complicated procedure to make him look like a woman so he could feel like a sex object. The attached picture is the evidence. He could have posed semi-nude as a man, but instead he appeared as the sad stereotype that women have in this society: Only women are sex objects.

 

As far as everyone knows - and from what they've said about themselves - CAITLYN is a lesbian.

She isn't looking to be any dudes sex object. 

You are projecting a whole mess of, obviously, personal issues onto the trans community. 

Anyone this bothered by what some stranger is up too needs serious help - and the fact it's coming from someone like you makes it even more pathetic. Imagine a world where anyone would think "hungry holes," opinion on trans people held any kind of value. 

[gwmxyz]

I agree with many of the earlier comments - in particular those that human psychology and attraction is not about seeing what it says on the birth certificate and going for the other sort, with anyone who doesn't being a bad person- stupid, selfish, wrong and/or mentally ill.

The problem isn't them. It's our very limited rule.

The one I would take particular exception to is that one can draw a line between a fetish and our true selves - as if our sexual desires were somehow not a part of us or beneath us and that anyone who acting according to them  was somehow superficial, selfish and second rate as compared to others with nobler and truer motives.  

Isn't how we see ourselves and why we want sex all to a large extent imaginary? To those unfamiliar with the desire (eg children) all sex and everything to do with it seems unappealing and pointless, notable only for how it makes rational people do stupid things. 

It's not vain or superficial to think of ourselves as sexy or to want to be so.  Any more than sexual desire is explained by those who see it as being about  a moment's pleasure.  Those who try and it thus are either charlatans or fools (or quite likely both).  They are missing the point for much the same reason as children do - but without the excuse.  

For myself, I see how we see ourselves, how we present ourselves and who we are attracted to as infinitely varied but part of a continuum. Whether  its old-fashioned racism or Myers Briggs personality types the problem is always the same - we seem to have this unquenchable desire to categorise others according to our simple rules - only then to get terribly upset when reality doesn't quite fit.   We blame reality rather than seeing the inadequacy of our rule. 

For example, I can see logically that someone who was a lesbian might not care how they were seen by men. But I don't think I need to be a lesbian to suspect that logic plays very little part in it. I bet you there are those who care intensely.  And I'd be surprised too if there weren't those for whom "lesbian" was a simple heading for more complex facts.  My wife - who went to a womens' college view thinks that one out of ten lesbians is a woman only ever found women attracted to women, and the other nine  it was likely to be about bad experiences with men.  Whether that's right or not, the point is a simple one, we are all different - and terrible at seeing things as others do.

Have you ever noticed how one can almost guarantee that if a group of women say how sexy and attractive their female friend is, a man who was unaware of this phenomenon and took them at their word would almost certainly be disappointed?  Nobody is lying and none completely clueless about what counts as attractive either. They just see it slightly differently.
I'm pretty sure, for example that if I were to wake up tomorrow weirdly transformed into a woman, that I would give it a go - like the breasts it might be a shock - but I'm already seeing the opportunity just as much as the problem.   Likewise, I have no doubt at all that if I did see myself as a woman, it would be as a sexy one. 
However, it's not happened and is not likely to either - so like the women talking about their ever so sexy friend, I might be speaking sincere but complete rubbish.  It seems far better to take someone at their word who has found themselves in this sort of situation than to rely on how me and others who hadn't found themselves in this situation think that they might.    
For the same reason my money would be on the men who had resisted being a right about to the friend's irresistability -  not the women who can only imagine what it is like to be them. But, of course, neither is anything more than an informed guess. The problem might be the men.  She might be one of those who only dated what she called "unthreatening" men - and that if she would only go for the heterosexual ones instead, she'd be every bit as irresistible as her friends thought..

[Samanthads]

On 12/24/2020 at 1:10 PM, hungry_hole said:

I would like someone to please explain this "feeling like a woman" thing. Do you want to feel sexy and a sex object? Explain.

its a state of mind that varies from person to person  "feeling like a women" it could be looking feminine feeling feminine, you could in a way say "treated like a women" as a better expression. 

i would say to you do you "feel gay" and why are you, where you born that way, way you where raised that way etc. its not about feeling like a sex object but feeling like you which can mean feeling sexy but it dont have to be 

the problem is there are different levels, crossdressing transvestism are fetishes and usually sexual.

Transgender isnt a fetish its who the person. Most true transgenders you wont notice from a casual glance as they blend in, because they want to be seen as a person not a object/fetish for others , if you look close you might spot the male attributes adams apple broad shoulders etc. Transgender isnt about rebelling or the way you are raised but a need to be yourself  

also sex and gender are different male female are biological sexes. there are so many genders too many labels and labels are dangerous really as you cant pigeonhole people into one easily as they might not agree 

i write this from my point of view as gender fluid as a guy i have female attributes high cheekbones, girls lips, softer voice, graceful female walk and "camp" mannerisms that i have no control of . im more a guy than girl but i need both sides male and female to feel happy in myself 

[Guest]

When I was a young teen I found a pair of my sister’s pantyhose/tights in my laundry basket, she must have left them in the drier. I remember specifically seeing them and automatically grabbing them and adjusting them on my body. Every night I’d do the same with them, and one night I tore a hole in the crotch and fucked myself with a candle! This was just before the internet exploded and therefore I had no idea that there were any other men that felt so natural in feminine clothes. There were drag queens but that wasn’t the same to me, it was fiction and in other words I wasn’t influenced by drag queens as I considered it make believe.  
 

fast forward a couple years and the internet was readily available in homes. Since my sister’s pantyhose I’d gone deeper into this feeling of wanting to be dominated and play a feminine and submissive role with “real” men. I wore my ex wife’s lingerie and masturbated to the fantasy of her getting fucked in front of me by a dominant hung man, and being humiliated by comparisons to my tiny cock. This fantasy became more and more intense and it did not fade but instead cemented my feelings of femininity. Much to my surprise I came across a porn site which showed my exact fantasy on screen and I was shocked that there was a name for it - cuckolding - and the fem males being cuckolded were called “sissies.”  And apparently I was not the only one! Can you imagine?

until that moment I really thought I was alone in my feelings of femininity and desire to be cuckolded.  I knew I was at least part girl inside somewhere way before I learned about tv, cd, gender, or even submissive sissy cuckolds. I repeat I had these feelings and identity before any influence from any other source. To me that is proof enough that it is not a choice to feel this way. 
 

in answer to the question how it feels to be a woman?, it feels like me. It feels empathetic. It feels protective, it feels vulnerable to male dominance, it feels sexy and it feels real. And besides I have a 1/2 inch cock so if I want to call that my clit I will do so without any interference from unqualified and ignorant people!

[hungry_hole]

On 1/25/2021 at 6:52 AM, TinyClit said:

until that moment I really thought I was alone in my feelings of femininity and desire to be cuckolded.  I knew I was at least part girl inside somewhere way before I learned about tv, cd, gender, or even submissive sissy cuckolds. I repeat I had these feelings and identity before any influence from any other source. To me that is proof enough that it is not a choice to feel this way.

People have many needs but it does not mean that one has to acquire a specific identity.  You had a need and you thought that as a boy you were denied those needs. Bruce could have explored his needs that made him think he was a woman, but from what I know he never tried sex with men.

Question to TinyClit: What are feelings of femininity? Can you be more specific? Some may interpret wanting to get fucked in the ass as feelings of femininity. I can love men but that doesn't make me a woman.

[Guest]

Sure, I might be mixing femininity with effeminate, and for example I was a Jennie. But my penis is very very small and it was difficult to pee sometimes when I was younger, and even now at times if it’s been tiny I must be careful. 

[FemNegBttm]

As a trans woman, this thread is pretty disturbing and the mindset of the OP is what creates most of the anti-trans sentiment in the world.

I didn't read many of the replies, so I apologise for being redundant, but let me just second the presumably many responses explaining that a man wearing stockings to a glory hole is not transgender. Trans girls like me aren't men who used to wear women's clothes to the bathhouse and "got stuck" that way. 

The man in stockings at the glory hole goes to work Monday and is perfectly comfortable as a man in society. Trans people are born in the wrong body. From an early age, usually pre-puberty, we don't feel right. Like something is wrong and that you are different. Once you identify what that is, it becomes the focus of your life to correct it. When I see pictures of myself before transition it's traumatic and painful for me. It would be like if you spent time in jail and looked back on the wasted period of your life. A few years ago I dressed in guy mode for a wedding. I literally felt like my skin was crawling the entire time. This is my life, so please expand your scope beyond the bathhouse walls 

I think it's funny (sad) that members of the gay community treat trans people the way society viewed homosexuality for so long "do that and you'll turn trans!" You should know that you can't turn gay or straight (but you can accept the truth about yourself and correct your path in life) so it shouldn't be that hard to think it might be like that for being trans. 

[Guest]

I don’t think we should judge how people feel. If you feel like a girl you get to go to the women’s bathroom, and if “they” won’t let you in there then you’d better go potty outside by the car.

this guy who worked at the makeup a d perfume counter once had a nice pair of heels, tight jeans, blouse and Brest makes 

he had no wig though and shirt hair and he looked really shy. Anyway he was a little sissy. But just try a little tiny cock, hard when it is little, like mine, try to keep it a secret and you tell mee

[beanna]

35 minutes ago, FemNegBttm said:

As a trans woman, this thread is pretty disturbing and the mindset of the OP is what creates most of the anti-trans sentiment in the world.

I didn't read many of the replies, so I apologise for being redundant, but let me just second the presumably many responses explaining that a man wearing stockings to a glory hole is not transgender. Trans girls like me aren't men who used to wear women's clothes to the bathhouse and "got stuck" that way. 

The man in stockings at the glory hole goes to work Monday and is perfectly comfortable as a man in society. Trans people are born in the wrong body. From an early age, usually pre-puberty, we don't feel right. Like something is wrong and that you are different. Once you identify what that is, it becomes the focus of your life to correct it. When I see pictures of myself before transition it's traumatic and painful for me. It would be like if you spent time in jail and looked back on the wasted period of your life. A few years ago I dressed in guy mode for a wedding. I literally felt like my skin was crawling the entire time. This is my life, so please expand your scope beyond the bathhouse walls 

I think it's funny (sad) that members of the gay community treat trans people the way society viewed homosexuality for so long "do that and you'll turn trans!" You should know that you can't turn gay or straight (but you can accept the truth about yourself and correct your path in life) so it shouldn't be that hard to think it might be like that for being trans. 

 Could not have put it any better

Big hug and soft gentle kiss to a fine lady