Poz Tops and guys on PReP

[Kimberley]

 

I've experienced this several times with guys who are poz with a high viral load. as soon they hear i'm on prep they don't want to have sex anymore. they only want to convert neg guys not on prep. very annoying. just because i'm on prep im willing to take theirs toxic poz seed

[Hintyt]

12 hours ago, raw773 said:

I honestly find it hard to believe this actually happened. It sounds like some of the fantasy happy talk that you get on this site (here come the guys saying "send him my way," etc.).

But I DO BELIEVE YOU. To me, his behavior seems preposterous. You're saying there's a poz psychopath out there who only fucks to convert -- but who also takes the time to ask and make sure he's got an unprotected neg hole on the line. He will get rejected 99% of the time until he kisses the one frog who turns out to be a chaser. That's what's so impossible. Also feel like if this was so important to him, he'd ask earlier in the process.

It leads me to think maybe he used it as a convenient excuse to break it off. Don't know. Honestly it's a headscratcher myself. I wish you well and hope it was not a big dent to your ego. 😕

This guy seems very hardcore.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Hintyt
Clarity

[tallslenderguy]

Playing this out in my head, it seems to me the guy was romancing you for the sole purpose of converting you. I.e., he had no interest in you,  but was only interested in spreading disease.  i guess that could work for those who have a reciprocal disease fetish, but the fact you are on PrEP indicates you do not fetishize disease. You also seem to like having a connection with a person beyond sex, you met for drinks vs just bending over in an ally. He too seems to want a sort of connection, but only with someone he can poz. i do wonder where it would have gone had you been a chaser? Does his fantasy go beyond pozzing guys?  Is he the equivalent of the straight guy who's sole purpose it to get a girl pregnant then disappear? Or is he prepared to stick around after he 'impregnates' a guy and help care for and pay for the 'baby?'  

i'm not seeing that fantasy play out with the "gifters" and "chasers" i have encountered. There doesn't usually seem to be a relationship component beyond  pozzing. 

[PG1961Canada]

We all have our kinks.  Different strokes for different folks etc... etc... You guys know what I mean

In reality - there are 'gifters' and 'chasers' and people who... just like to fuck raw and enjoy cum.

I like to fuck raw and give/take cummy loads in all my holes.  I went on PrEP for my own reasons.  I don't feel obligated to tell anyone why - especially when we are just planning to fuck.

I have had guys tell me - I'm poz or undetectable - before we fuck.  I appreciate him telling me.  It gives me a 'choice'.   I always just say... "Let's fuck".  We have BOTH decided to fuck.   I don't feel compelled to tell him I'm neg or on PrEP..... I'm typically just turned on by the guy.  I have never had a guy ask me if I am neg, or PrEP or Poz as a 'condition' of having sex. 

The fact that I am going ahead with the (hot) sex is my choice.

If it was important to him that I be neg AND unmedicated... I would likely just shrug my shoulders and walk away.  That is HIS fantasy.  Not mine. 

It's ok to just say no thanks.... this guy certainly did it in an interesting manner.  It could be his 'kink' or 'different stroke'.

As others have pointed out - don't take it personally.  You did nothing wrong.... other than agree to have sex ... he's the one that put the conditions on.

And as others have pointed out - maybe he changed his mind and this was his 'out'? Who knows.

Happy hunting dude!

[Hintyt]

23 hours ago, 1000GUYS said:

hes totally sick, i mean, mentally sick... all he wants is to convert guys? i really hope he does that with the consent of both parties. yuck

Sound like a hardcore Chaser’s dream come true.

[CumCravinHole]

I don’t relish being the odd one out here, however, I can understand the fully charged top.  

Some Poz guys, undetectable or otherwise, can take offense that a Neg bottom wants his load but not the hiv risk it may or may not present (depending on detectable VL).

Taking a fully charged load is no guarantee of conversion (though likely), and plays into the role of the worthless bottom who exists solely for the top’s pleasure.  If that role doesn’t appeal to a Neg bottom, then no harm no foul.  The fully charged top wasn’t out to stealth, he is satiated by unmedicated Neg bottoms willing to receive  his giftable load...especially  if they are not   Officially chasers...though some would argue the Neg bottom is a chaser by default regardless of their intentions or lack there of.

For some high octane Poz tops, it’s not so much about gifting per say, as it is letting nature take its course...unless of course he is packing a toothbrush. 

[Cutedelicategay]

Few surprises for me for sure....

1. Gifters and chasers are a very minuscule community and that too in my opinion doesn't exist beyond this forum. 

2. Hard to believe that many bottoms or to that matter tops are negative but not on prep now that prep has almost become mainstream HIV prevention strategy.

3. Almost hard to believe someone with HIV positive wants to remain unmedicated and risk their own health.

4. I believe it is still criminal to knowingly spread diseases like HIV charged for bodily harm causing death. 

Am I missing something here?

Edited August 31, 2021 by Cutedelicategay

[cumfillme]

That;s why I prefer the bathhouse setting. No talking, I'm on Prep, just give me your load regardless of whether you are Poz or Neg. If the top proclaims he is Poz as he cums, no worries. I'll play along and scream out Breed Me

[cosmaz]

On 8/30/2021 at 9:53 PM, Cutedelicategay said:

Few surprises for me for sure....

1. Gifters and chasers are a very minuscule community and that too in my opinion doesn't exist beyond this forum. 

2. Hard to believe that many bottoms or to that matter tops are negative but not on prep now that prep has almost become mainstream HIV prevention strategy.

3. Almost hard to believe someone with HIV positive wants to remain unmedicated and risk their own health.

4. I believe it is still criminal to knowingly spread diseases like HIV charged for bodily harm causing death. 

Am I missing something here?

You are definitely missing something.  

I won't bother telling you what because your post makes it clear that your beliefs and opinions are set and it wouldn't be worth it. 

[Pozguyinchi]

I really don’t believe there are men that are med free out there waiting to find a neg bottom. I have been poz for 19 years and I get fucked a lot. In my 19 years of being poz I have only found one man that was poz and not on meds. He had a good excuse at the time but I don’t see it happening that often.

[Naruto]

10 minutes ago, Pozguyinchi said:

I really don’t believe there are men that are med free out there waiting to find a neg bottom.

Agreed.  Conventional wisdom is that most new infections are from guys who don't know they have it.  I've been barebacking for years and I'm still neg.  But I'm planning some road trips this fall, so that may change.  Any viral guys reading this should message me. 

[BootmanLA]

On 8/30/2021 at 8:53 PM, Cutedelicategay said:

Few surprises for me for sure....

1. Gifters and chasers are a very minuscule community and that too in my opinion doesn't exist beyond this forum. 

2. Hard to believe that many bottoms or to that matter tops are negative but not on prep now that prep has almost become mainstream HIV prevention strategy.

3. Almost hard to believe someone with HIV positive wants to remain unmedicated and risk their own health.

4. I believe it is still criminal to knowingly spread diseases like HIV charged for bodily harm causing death. 

Am I missing something here?

Yes, you're missing something (a lot of somethings, actually), and unlike Cosmaz above, I'm willing to spell them out for you.

1. It's probably true that relative to the overall population in the world, or in the US, or even just among gay men, gifters and chasers are a relatively small community (though I would not say "miniscule". That said, there are plenty of them who are not on this site. 

2. You find it "hard to believe" there are lots of guys who are negative but not on PrEP. You live in Canada, a place which has universal health care. Until this year's determination in the U.S. that PrEP is a recommended preventative measure (and thus must be covered without copay by insurance under the terms of the ACA), many insurance companies did not cover PrEP, and those that did frequently had a large copay (sometimes hundreds of dollars per month). And of course, there are still plenty of people in the United States who (a) live in places where the state has not expanded Medicaid and (b) they make too much for traditional Medicaid, and (c) work for an employer who doesn't offer health benefits or who has them priced so high they're not affordable.

Millions of people in the United States still lack any health insurance coverage at all - somewhere between 25 and 30 million people, the vast majority of whom are adults. If we guess that 5% of those are LGBT people (I'd wager it's higher, as we tend to be overrepresented in marginal occupations in the service industry) - that would still be over a million LGBT people at a minimum with no insurance coverage. Those people are far less likely to be on PrEP strictly due to cost concerns.

Your Canada-induced myopia is perhaps keeping you from seeing what your large neighbor to the south experiences.

Beyond that, a certain number of people prefer condoms over bareback sex, even PrEP-protected bareback sex, because condoms offer additional protection to other STI's. Not to all of them, and not in every case, but still - it's their call to make and they make it that way. What you or I or anyone else thinks about the desirability of bareback sex over condom sex, a lot of people are still making that decision every day.

And beyond THAT - if an undetectable-poz top bareback fucks a bottom who's not on PrEP, he's almost certainly not going to infect the bottom. That means that in sharp contrast from our community experience in the 1990s - where fucking assorted guys bareback was almost a guarantee towards getting pozzed, eventually - in 2021 as long as one of the two participants is undetectable OR on PrEP, the chances of transmission are negligible. While I think it's still crazy to roll the dice that way, the odds of getting pozzed have gone way, way down (as evidenced by the frustration of so many chasers on this site).

3. Once a person recovers from the initial "fuck flu" - if he experiences that - health complications from HIV take a pretty long time to develop for most guys. Some don't want even the minor complications that HIV treatment regimens can produce. And even in later stages of infection, when HIV begins multiplying rapidly in the system, opting into treatment at that point is frequently successful at reversing the effects of years of not being treated, although such a patient has fewer options for "med holidays". So yes, it's entirely possible to believe some people would rather wait until it's absolutely necessary to begin treatment.

Beyond that, there are some guys who figure "Live hard, die young" and take that seriously - they don't want to be 80 years old with joint problems, unable to walk up a flight of stairs and unable to remember what they had for lunch yesterday. They would rather live a shorter but fuller life, and that's their choice to make.

4. What *you* believe is "criminal" and what actually *is* criminal are highly likely to be two different things, so let's make sure we define our terms.

Canadian law - which covers where you are - is somewhat murky in that exposure to HIV is covered under general sexual assault law. "Criminal exposure to HIV" is defined as a "realistic possibility of transmission" of HIV during sexual intercourse. "Realistic possibility" is not spelled out in Canadian statutes, but the Supreme Court of Canada has held that it does not include sex with a condom OR sex where the infected person has a sufficiently low viral load. There are proposals floating around that would codify "no realistic possibility of transmission" to cover four situations: when the infected person is undetectable, when condoms are used, when the non-infected person is on PrEP, or when the particular sex act (e.g. oral sex) is itself very low-risk - but those proposals haven't been adopted into legislation yet.

In some (not all) jurisdictions in the United States, by contrast, you have 50 different sets of laws, because this is a state, not federal, matter, and while the laws in one state may resemble those in another, none are identical. In some states there is no specific criminal provision at all.

Now, if you mean "morally wrong" and not "criminal", that's a different kettle of fish entirely. But in that case, you shouldn't use words like "criminal" that have a very specific meaning, especially not tossed around willy-nilly with no understanding of what is actually criminal and what isn't.

[120DaysofSodom]

Weird. You're better off. He has issues.

[Guest]

i get a poz guy declining a prep neg. just like some poz guys decining my neg body because i do not use prep. if a poz guy is into converting negs like me then of course prep guys, poz guys, even unknown guys turn him off. he is into giving his virus and his hot button would naturally be a guy who is a certain neg with no safety net! (like me)   And prep guys, neg, or unsure dont excite me like a known poz guy. just like an undetectable doesnt excite me like a high vl, but l will still have raw sex with him.  its all about desires and hot buttons. i love piss, some poz tops dont. in the end it is about our deepest desires and those optional desires that we prefer but dont have to have.  i get those who prep and have raw sex with poz guys, and more power to them. but i hope that safer sex guys don't bash me just because i give my neg self to the most poz guys i can find. we are all a brotherhood. we each just have our individual desires because afterall, in the end we are only human.  we might enjoy the company of men who we are not sexually compatible with, and desire to have hot sex with guys that would not be our life partner choice. lets all live and let live.

now . . . would a high vl guy please give it to me! i don't use prep!

[PigFaggot2904]

I've seen profiles on BBRT where poz unmedicated tops only want to fuck neg bottoms, not on PrEP, for the sole purposes of seroconversion.  Shower them with attention & affection, get them in bed, and then once conversion occurs, block 'em and onto the next [un]willing f@g.  I even saw one profile say "...no guys on PrEP, that's just cheating."  So it is definitely a thing.