Advice on hooking up with a much younger guy (legal)

[fuckholedc]

On 4/21/2022 at 7:28 AM, ErosWired said:

Most of the Gay strippers started fucking at least by 16 and many were aggressive about it, targeting older Gay men to get devirginized.

What does that suggest about what tends to happen to the lives of boys who get devirginized at 16? It may not happen to all of them, but “Gay stripper” is not the future just about any family wants to imagine for their young man, so a certain intolerance for older male interlopers is not really that surprising.

Gay stripper is usually a temporary job that some (in some places, a lot) Gay (and bi and hetero) men go through in major Gay and or Metrosexual cities.  It is often a very positive and liberative experience (but not always - some people develop addictive or compulsive behaviors).

[ErosWired]

1 hour ago, fuckholedc said:

Gay stripper is usually a temporary job that some (in some places, a lot) Gay (and bi and hetero) men go through in major Gay and or Metrosexual cities.  It is often a very positive and liberative experience (but not always - some people develop addictive or compulsive behaviors).

Nothing in that statement makes the prospect attractive or desirable to the average heteronormative family interested in protecting the future well-being of the young person in their care. For most parents, when they imagine positive, liberating experiences for their progeny, those images do not include the young person naked on display in front of the lust-hungry, rapacious eyes of men in a strip club waiting to stuff dollar bills into his g-string. Even when the worst doesn’t happen and addictive or compulsive behaviors don’t ensue, the fact that some young men who are turned out early escape being catastrophically damaged by the experience falls way short of an endorsement for doing it.

[hntnhole]

Ok.  I've lived my entire life in either the largest or second-largest (metro area) city in Illinois.  Then, Fort Lauderdale.  The flavor of the replies is that many of you guys are afraid of getting arrested for talking to an under-age guy, family members figuring out how to "track" a phone, all kinds of stuff.  Not having experienced that kind of milieu wherever I've lived, I will confess it didn't occur how heavily that might weigh on a guy's mind.  

I will say that I've met what we could call "beginners" for lunch, supper any number of times for an assessment, and apparently I've had it easier than some, living in major metro areas.  Every time a novice who thought he was interested in the Leather Ethic contacted me, I met him in a public place for an initial conversation.  Same for online tricks.  It's never occurred to me in the bars, backrooms to even wonder whether the guy was underage. 

This is just one of the reasons I value BZ so much.  I've learned so much about how other guys live their sexual lives, what concerns they have, or don't.  I feel grateful to even have the opportunity to learn about some of these issues.  I "get" why so many guys have poured cold water on the "meet for lunch" suggestion, so consider it withdrawn.

Thanks, all you guys ......

[PozBearWI]

On 4/21/2022 at 11:13 PM, ejaculaTe said:

Grindr, I assume, requires one to state one's age, and I'd hazard a guess that the minimum age to get on the app/site is 18. The Kid is 16 going on 17 as he told the OP. The Kid has thus already told one lie, and for all anyone knows, let alone the OP, The Kid could actually be 15. "But he said he was almost 17 -- I asked. Don't tell me he lied to me" won't be much help. In most states, mistake of fact as to someone's age is not a defense to a charge of statutory rape, sexual assault, or similar offenses.

Exactly, the onus is on the older, and purportedly more mature person with we hope skills to ferret out assertions from facts.   If you don't know, you don't know.  Telling the officer "but he told me" isn't a valid defense.  

[polyglutton]

I want to thank everyone who took the time to give thoughts and advice. 

I have resisted meeting him so far. He was really persistent for about 5 days but in the last few he hasn't messaged me which has felt like a relief. 

It's been very intense for me, with the fear and confusion about how legal, ethical, or safe it would be. Very much out of my comfort zone. On top of this I now understand that the only reason I was open to this is because how sex-starved I am with from the isolation.  It's sobering how vulnerable to this proposition I've found myself.

I spent the last session with my therapist discussing it and she was really supportive and didn't think it would be wrong or legally ambiguous, but then again she's not a lawyer. I think I'll get a legal opinion for piece of mind even if I never actually meet him. At least would get an answer. 

The guy doesn't have any ID to show me (no driver's learning permit or license), only a high school ID which has no age on it, only the school year-grade. 

As all of this is new to me, since I've always avoided guys near the age if consent, it's so weird that there is so much ambiguity of legality where the age of consent is below 18. 

I should just block him and the sooner I forget it, the better. 

[BiCurious100]

On 4/21/2022 at 11:34 PM, ErosWired said:

I can’t advise in favor of it. Let’s say the OP does have this harmless get-to-know-you meeting (in a public place, so there will absolutely be witnesses to him meeting an unaccompanied adolescent), and the meeting results in an arrangement for sex, which then occurs. But then, for any of the various reasons discussed above, the OP suddenly finds that the whole situation has gone horribly pear-shaped and people are using words like “groomed”. And the OP protests that he didn’t attempt to ‘groom’ the boy, but out of the blue up pops an eyewitness who was in the same place where the OP had his “harmless” meeting with the kid alone.

Yeah. A lot of folks would be looking over the tops of their spectacles at that.

In addition, I had overlooked earlier the part where the OP says the kid lives a mile away. Dear God. This has ‘disaster’ written all over it in letters big enough to be seen from space.

Okay, I accept the fair points in the posts in this thread - having looked over the OP again, I agree that there are many points to consider, which makes a meet, in this case, too risky.

 

[chargedodger]

look but don't touch.I keep my distance too.Because their gravity pulls me in strongly.

[Alaric]

I was working alone in my orchard, which I'd first cleared the land of thornbush before planting fruit trees. Hard but rewarding work. One evening I was approached by a woman in her late 40s. She'd seen me working there several times, and she wondered if her son could come and volunteer to help in the orchard. It was as part of a public service award scheme. After some questions I decided it was a possibility and agreed to a trial period. Two days later the lady arrived with her son in tow. He was a good looking young man, slim with a great smile. My gaydar was firing. She hung around during the first session which I devoted to safety training. During subsequent sessions he was unaccompanied and at that time of the year with the surrounding woodland we'd be undisturbed. I discovered that in two weeks he'd turn 16 (the legal age of consent).  He was wearing shorts, boots and a tee shirt. I resisted temptation that evening and for the next four years, though I've little doubt he was interested in experimenting.

Since then after leaving school, he's been to university, and has started his career in media. We remain great friends, and he has a boyfriend.

The point I want to make is that, I gained much more by watching, and helping, him develop into an adult. If the relationship had turned sexual I doubt it would have lasted long.

[hntnhole]

On 4/28/2022 at 1:33 PM, BiCurious100 said:

  On 4/21/2022 at 6:34 PM, ErosWired said:

I can’t advise in favor of it. Let’s say the OP does have this harmless get-to-know-you meeting (in a public place, so there will absolutely be witnesses to him meeting an unaccompanied adolescent)

Not so fast .... that's unfair.  The point was, and remains, there would be no one who could say they saw anything untoward.  Surely you're not suggesting that two guys never ever meet for lunch and a chat - gay, straight, or nothing at all - out of fear that someone might assume the worst and call the cops?  My apologies, but that's absurd.

[TwinkChaserSlut]

On 4/20/2022 at 3:39 PM, Breedingandseeding said:

When I was 16 I used to lie and pretend I was 18 so I could hook up with daddies. I knew exactly what I wanted despite the age of consent laws in my area being 18. Most European countries set it at 15 or 16.

a couple of the guys I even later told them I was younger than I first stated but I wasn’t going to get them in trouble (or say my age in writing over the apps). Loved the [banned word] aspect of it and so did they. No one got in trouble and I’m a well adjusted adult now despite plenty of hookups with older strangers 

Well stated!

[Cutieb0y]

Many young dudes want daddy:)

[ErosWired]

On 5/6/2022 at 7:29 PM, hntnhole said:

Not so fast .... that's unfair.  The point was, and remains, there would be no one who could say they saw anything untoward.  Surely you're not suggesting that two guys never ever meet for lunch and a chat - gay, straight, or nothing at all - out of fear that someone might assume the worst and call the cops?  My apologies, but that's absurd.

I’m talking about after the fact, when this man has been confronted with his actions by the young person’s family and/or other concerned people in the community when their trysting comes to light. This is not a case of ‘a couple of guys’ having a chat, as you would have it - his intention is to deflower a boy - yes, Sir, a boy, a 16-year-old is not a man, age-of-consent be damned, and the two males are not equals in this scenario. In the situation as described, under these circumstances, in this locale, the man’s actions will come to light. When this shit hits the fan, suddenly people will remember that they saw this man alone with the young person at that public place. They may not have thought anything amiss at the time, but now they ask: What business did he have with that young man in the first place that he should be meeting with him in such a way? And what, pray, would be the man’s plausible explanation that anyone would believe at that point? Your claim that they were ‘just having a chat’ is disingenuous. He hasn’t got a snowball’s chance in Hell of talking his way out of it, because there was not, in fact, anything innocent about what he was doing. If he wasn’t trying to seduce the boy, he would have had no rationale for meeting him.

I stand by my assertions. I cannot recommend it.

[hntnhole]

10 hours ago, ErosWired said:

I stand by my assertions. I cannot recommend it.

Alright then.  We will just have to agree to disagree for once.  I have no more to add to this issue.  Thanks for the reply.

Best -

[drscorpio]

I have several points:

• A teenager who claims to have no ID to show you is younger than he claims to be. Even if you do not drive, you need to have some form of government ID to get by in the world. 
• There is no way for an adult over the age of 20 to meet a 16-year-old they are not related to in public without attracting undue attention. 
• Grindr (and the other apps) require users to be 18, but they make no effort to enforce this requirement. 
• Age of consent laws are a blunt instrument at best. We have heard stories in this thread of people safely negotiating sex while underage. I teach at university, and I assure you there are plenty of 20-somethings who are emotionally immature and incapable of sound decision making. So despite the problems with them, they are what we have to live by. 
  Once a person is 18 in the USA, they are an adult. They can make the decision to consent to sex. No one (including their parent) should feel they have the right to gainsay their decisions about who they date or screw. 
  Personally, I think the age of consent should be younger. For the vast majority of human history, 14-15-year-olds were setting up households and raising children. But I get that we don't want 13-year-olds consenting to sex with adults. The range of 16-18 for age of consent seems like a reasonable compromise that we have settled on. 
• The reason so many young people today seem so immature and incapable of making good decisions is that we have extended childhood into their teens and adolescence into their twenties. I have taught college for 30+ years, and the maturity of a freshman in college has plummeted over that time. My parents starting letting me have some independence in my early teens. As I proved I could handle it to them, they granted me more. Students show up at university now with no conception of how to take care of themselves because they aren't being allowed any chance to experience risk and consequences. Lots of them totally crash and burn. 
• I am currently dating a man in his early 20s; I am in my late 50s. There has been a lot of skepticism from both families and sets of friends. If he had not been clearly an adult (over 21) when we met, I do not think we would have made it past that friction. 

[ErosWired]

4 hours ago, drscorpio said:

For the vast majority of human history, 14-15-year-olds were setting up households and raising children.

For the vast majority of human history, human cultures engaged in all sorts of things we don’t do now - human sacrifice and institutionalized slavery come to mind - and we call the fact that we don’t do them anymore progress.

My paternal grandmother married my grandfather at 14. She was too young. Yes, they set up a household and raised two children. It was dysfunctional and unhappy, with repercussions that have echoed down generations.

I agree that young adults today are lamentably immature. I tried to provide my own two with the tools and independence they needed to get ahead when they moved on, and it wasn’t easy. The school systems don’t help much, either. I wasn’t entirely successful - my son crashed and burned on his first attempt at college, took a year out, then returned and so far has a 3.9 in a double major, at the top of his class.

I agree that once the young person sets sail into the world the parent needs to step back and not interfere, to let the mistakes happen so that growth occurs. It’s extremely difficult to watch. But as a parent, you can’t help watching. And caring. No, once a person is 18, no one, including their parents, should have any business with who they choose to have intimate relations with. But that’s not going to stop them if they perceive a clear and present danger to their loved one - a protective instinct is likely to trump an abstract notion of autonomy, whether it’s appropriate or not. The 18-year-old then has the opportunity to exert his independence and tell them to fuck off, hopefully establishing a healthy boundary.

 I don’t interfere with or question my children’s choices in relationships (even though I could see that my son’s first was going to be a train wreck months before it happened). But I’ll stop watching over them when I’m dead. That matters, because in our family, what someone does to one of us, he does to all of us. And if he brings one if us to harm, he has us all to contend with. What can I say, we’re from Appalachia. Issues like the one in this thread are complicated here. Very.