Breaking News: Doxycycline After Sex Reduces STIs (DoxyPEP)

[mort]

1 hour ago, CABttm4Txc said:

The people at Oxford seem to have plenty of evidence suggesting the lack of STIs could be due to the daily use of Doxy - [think before following links] [think before following links] https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/70/6/1247/5557867 

And what alternatives are you putting forward here?

We have antibiotic resistance due to people not taking the full regime of antibiotics, overuse of antibiotics in livestock and fish farming and the lack of new options being developed.

 

This article was funded by parties that want you to be taking medication to increase their profits this is always the key to look for when it comes to studies who are the people doing the studies and how was it funded.

 

Next this is not a study it is article collection they have selected to suit again their agenda take a look at each study they used a lot of them are questionnaire based.

 

Only take when needed and try different ones not stick to same type is best solution of course other is the likes of condoms etc but some don't want to do that.

 

I 100% agree with you regarding animals and fish farming their is no need to use it on healthy animals but you are suggesting doing the same to humans take them in case.

[viking8x6]

Several studies have been done on this, and it appears to be effective. It is a single 200mg dose (ie both tablets together) and preferably within 24 hours post-exposure (that's the protocol the original study in France ca. 2015 used). It appears to be effective against syphilis and chlamydia, but not so much against gonorrhea.

The French study: [think before following links] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(17)30725-9/fulltext

A smaller US study: [think before following links] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4295649/

 

 

[mort]

14 hours ago, viking8x6 said:

Several studies have been done on this, and it appears to be effective. It is a single 200mg dose (ie both tablets together) and preferably within 24 hours post-exposure (that's the protocol the original study in France ca. 2015 used). It appears to be effective against syphilis and chlamydia, but not so much against gonorrhea.

The French study: [think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(17)30725-9/fulltext

A smaller US study: [think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4295649/

 

 

 

I'm not sure a lot of you understand how studies work and what is being published also because it's published doesn't mean it is science facts.

 

Ok this is from the authors themselves for the US one you linked to

 

"There is no established doxycycline concentration level which is known to prevent syphilis. However, the half-life of doxycycline in most patients is about 12 hours and serum levels indicative of recent dosing will be 1000-4000 ng/mL.13 Given this, eight of thirteen subjects (62%) took doxycycline during two of three study visits and four of thirteen subjects (31%) did so at all three visits."

 

"Our study has several limitations. Drug levels were measured only for the Doxycycline arm due to cost considerations. Doxycycline drug levels are important for documenting medication adherence and for determining serum levels that would be protective against syphilis"

 

Useless study

 

Now if you read the first one which is French one it is based on estimates well that's not science it's basically saying 1+1 = 2000

 

The other issue is it is comparing pep people with antibiotic to non pep people without that straight away invalids the study you cant do that it has to be pep people with and with out and the same for non pep people with and without also needs to be same age race etc.

 

I am not saying its worth taking not all the time because it is like we are doing to animals you are putting drugs into healthy people for no reason this it not going to end well and just look at the Corona issue we have just to think if front line antibiotics no longer work.

[ChrgdPuP]

On 3/13/2020 at 4:53 AM, mort said:

 

This article was funded by parties that want you to be taking medication to increase their profits this is always the key to look for when it comes to studies who are the people doing the studies and how was it funded.

 

Next this is not a study it is article collection they have selected to suit again their agenda take a look at each study they used a lot of them are questionnaire based.

 

Only take when needed and try different ones not stick to same type is best solution of course other is the likes of condoms etc but some don't want to do that.

 

I 100% agree with you regarding animals and fish farming their is no need to use it on healthy animals but you are suggesting doing the same to humans take them in case.

This article reviews clinical trials that suggest doxy for prep shows high efficacy but that more research is needed. It’s in Clinical Infectious Diseases, a peer reviewed medical journal from Infectious Diseases Society of America published by the Oxford University Press, part of the actual university. I didn’t say that it was a study in and of itself and that it’s not doesn’t disqualify it as evidence in favor of my point. There is some evidence out there, enough to warrant further research.

The parties performing the 2 concluded medical studies in the article where  affiliated with USC Medical Center and ANSR, the French HIV foundation. The questionnaire and Model were implemented for the Australian HIV foundation/SF Department of Medicine.  Are these the nefarious parties profiting off the increased sales of a generic drug that can be manufactured by any pharmaceutical company and is obtainable for .78/pill?

The CDC sets how a doctor treats these infections. We know of 10 different antibiotics, 4 of which are approved for use against our most common STIs. Chlamydia gets azithromycin+doxycycline, Syphilis gets penicillin, and gonorrhea ceftriaxone+doxycycline OR azithromycin. Those are the choices. You get basically the same thing every time. There is no “switching it up.”

My suggestion that an antibiotic be used to prevent infection in high risk individuals is not at all the same as the administration to every single animal from birth you see in our farming practices. 

Doxy daily may help prevent full blown infections of chlamydia and Syphilis by keeping your body so inhospitable to these they don’t get a chance to take hold before your immune system clears it out. We dunno for sure yet. If it never takes hold it’s one less chance to mutate into a resistant strain though.

[mort]

9 hours ago, CABttm4Txc said:

This article reviews clinical trials that suggest doxy for prep shows high efficacy but that more research is needed. It’s in Clinical Infectious Diseases, a peer reviewed medical journal from Infectious Diseases Society of America published by the Oxford University Press, part of the actual university. I didn’t say that it was a study in and of itself and that it’s not doesn’t disqualify it as evidence in favor of my point. There is some evidence out there, enough to warrant further research.

The parties performing the 2 concluded medical studies in the article where  affiliated with USC Medical Center and ANSR, the French HIV foundation. The questionnaire and Model were implemented for the Australian HIV foundation/SF Department of Medicine.  Are these the nefarious parties profiting off the increased sales of a generic drug that can be manufactured by any pharmaceutical company and is obtainable for .78/pill?

The CDC sets how a doctor treats these infections. We know of 10 different antibiotics, 4 of which are approved for use against our most common STIs. Chlamydia gets azithromycin+doxycycline, Syphilis gets penicillin, and gonorrhea ceftriaxone+doxycycline OR azithromycin. Those are the choices. You get basically the same thing every time. There is no “switching it up.”

My suggestion that an antibiotic be used to prevent infection in high risk individuals is not at all the same as the administration to every single animal from birth you see in our farming practices. 

Doxy daily may help prevent full blown infections of chlamydia and Syphilis by keeping your body so inhospitable to these they don’t get a chance to take hold before your immune system clears it out. We dunno for sure yet. If it never takes hold it’s one less chance to mutate into a resistant strain though.

 

Again you don't understand the studies this is very common for people that are not in medical field or had any involvement with research they just look at some numbers or read the conclusion thinking they understand it.

 

if you read those studies and understood them people that was taking the antibiotics was still getting infected but again that may be due to it was not a proper controlled study which they never would be able to do anyway plus i stated they straight away are comparing different people it's not even equal so the whole thing is invalid that is not science.

 

Those parties have deals to do with medications and receive money from certain companies so yes they do push agenda the same with some studies when you look at the peers they are hand picked to favor the data which is why again you need to be very careful and do full background checking of every one involved.

 

Animals don't take them from birth to death you are just listen to more paper talk the use has had massive reductions and  who is classed as high risk give me a population number? so if all these people take them you think it makes it so its an inhospitable environment really you cant be serious this again shows your lack of any science or medical knowledge it does not work like that otherwise why are the animal to human ones not all wiped out. (other thing is if all these animals are taking antibiotics then so are the humans because it's passed on to us when we feed of them if in the likes of manure)

 

I am done with this no point trying to explain anymore to people who do not understand this is like trying to speak with the people that still think the Earth is flat.

[viking8x6]

On 3/14/2020 at 9:14 AM, mort said:

 

I'm not sure a lot of you understand how studies work and what is being published also because it's published doesn't mean it is science facts.

I'm sure a lot of people on this site don't understand that. I, however, do understand both of those things (I have a PhD in science).  So I went back and re-read the studies carefully.  Before, I had simply posted them so that others could do so, as I researched this subject and made my own decision about what to do quite a while ago.

Your assertions regarding the French study are completely spurious. The "estimates" they are referring to are simply the overall hazard estimates for the study period (in each arm), based on the actual number of people in each arm of the the study who contracted syphilis, gonorrhea, and chlamydia. The "PEP" referred to in the study is the doxycycline itself; it has nothing to do with HIV PEP (all of the participants in the study were HIV-negative and taking Truvada for PrEP). What they found is pretty much exactly what I stated: Doxycyline as PEP appears to be somewhat effective at preventing syphilis and chlamydia, but not gonorrhea. Quoting from the actual publication:

Quote

among high-risk MSM using PrEP with tenofovir disoproxil fumarate plus emtricitabine for HIV prevention, the use of doxycycline PEP following condomless sexual activity was associated with a significant decrease in the occurrence of a new bacterial STI, with an overall 47% relative reduction in the risk of acquiring a new bacterial STI (gonorrhoea, chlamydia, or syphilis)

I will add that, with respect to overuse of antibiotics and the potential of bacteria developing resistance, the study authors also limited the total amount of doxycycline to be used by the participants to no more than 3 doses a week.

[PlayfulPup]

I was on prophylactic Doxycycline for three years because I had extremely high viral load and low CD4 count.  I didn’t have medical insurance, didn’t qualify for assistance, and couldn’t afford meds.

It was rough.  Doxy has several unpleasant GI side effects.  Probiotics and fiber supplements help, but don’t entirely solve the issues.

Despite being in an area red hot with STIs including chlamydia, gonorrhea, and syphilis; I was never infected.  That changed when I later started Atripla and dropped the Doxycycline.

Bottom line: It works but with consequences.  Besides side effects and risk of resistant strains, there is also the possibility of developing a sensitivity or allergy to the entire antibiotic class.

[Spunkinmyarse]

Anecdotally, I would agree that it works.  After a heavy session at a cruise club or sex party, I wait 24 hours and then take 2 x 100mg pills of doxy together.  Since I started this approach, I haven’t had syph or chlamydia at all, though I have had gonno twice.  I’ve just recently tested again after the 6 ‘busiest’ months of my life (including party trips to New York/Montreal and Gran Canaria, as well as the usual London merry-go-round) and have somewhat miraculously come away with no infections at all.

Interesting comments from @PlayfulPup.  I haven’t suffered any side effects with doxy and understand they are quite rare, but then I’m not taking it very often, and certainly not daily.  I also understand that doxycycline is widely prescribed on a semi-long term basis to acne sufferers, and that issues connected to its long term usage are well understood, and it is generally considered safe- but I am no expert on the matter.  Developing an allergy to a whole class of antibiotics is indeed a worry, but then like most things in life, you have to weigh up the risks.

As for the ethics of taking antibiotics in this way when antibiotic resistance is such a hot topic these days, well, like most things, it’s nuanced.

[PlayfulPup]

5 hours ago, Spunkinmyarse said:

Interesting comments from @PlayfulPup.  I haven’t suffered any side effects with doxy and understand they are quite rare, but then I’m not taking it very often, and certainly not daily.  I also understand that doxycycline is widely prescribed on a semi-long term basis to acne sufferers, and that issues connected to its long term usage are well understood, and it is generally considered safe- but I am no expert on the matter.  Developing an allergy to a whole class of antibiotics is indeed a worry, but then like most things in life, you have to weigh up the risks.

As for the ethics of taking antibiotics in this way when antibiotic resistance is such a hot topic these days, well, like most things, it’s nuanced.

To be clear — I believe targeted prophylaxis is a useful tool.  I’m not expressing ethical or moral judgements, just providing additional context.

Doxycycline is certainly less brutal than Cipro or Augmentin on the GI tract.  Gut flora is surprisingly resilient; most likely your single dose regimen limits the side effects.  🙂

Gonorrhea and Staphylococcus are emerging superbugs.  In the US, current recommendation for gonococcal infections is dual treatment with shot of Rocephin (Ceftriaxone) and single oral dose of Azithromycin.  Resistant strains are appearing in Eastern Europe and Central Asia.  Next options are:

1) point-of-care resistance testing along with appropriate selection of antibiotics could extend the “shelf life” of existing treatments. [think before following links] https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/216/9/1141/4100269

2) treatment with three drug regimen.

3) development of novel antibiotics.  This option is stalled as smaller drug companies go bankrupt and big pharma sees antibiotic development as too risky with too little reward.

[think before following links] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/12/25/health/antibiotics-new-resistance.amp.html

[think before following links] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/17/big-pharma-failing-to-invest-in-new-antibiotics-says-who

[Guest NSAFUCKBUD]

I appreciate everyone’s comments.  This is some interesting information and enjoy the diversity of opinions. . . . 

[horndoggy]

For years Doxycycline was the only malarial prophylaxis I could take because my existing meds were contraindicated for the other anti-malarials. Trouble was doxy made me sick as a dog over time, getting progressively worse every day. I could only take it for a max of two or three weeks at a time.

Luckily, my work stopped sending me to malarial zones 20 years ago. 

[Littlebill77]

Is anyone keeping track of current or pending studies for doxy pep/prep?

 

I recall seeing a uk (imperial/London) initial phase proposal but believe it all got sidelined by cv19.

 

any others? 

[Spunkinmyarse]

The trouble is, @Littlebill77, it’s not in big pharma’s interest to fund research like this (given that doxycycline is generic and cheap as chips), and governments are hardly likely to put it at the top of their list of priorities, especially these days!

Looks like it’s up to us to do our own ‘research’...

[Littlebill77]

1 hour ago, Spunkinmyarse said:

The trouble is, @Littlebill77, it’s not in big pharma’s interest to fund research like this (given that doxycycline is generic and cheap as chips), and governments are hardly likely to put it at the top of their list of priorities, especially these days!

Looks like it’s up to us to do our own ‘research’...

Certainly isn’t in big pharma’s interest

 

STIs still cost, doxy is a very cheap drug, so local health services/donor orgs/trusts can and do commission their own studies.

sadly I expect though the world is preoccupied; 

[BootmanLA]

Beyond that, of course, there's the problem that prophylactic antibiotics just result in the antibiotic-resistant strains muscling their way to the forefront.