Any guys here still in denial?

[viking8x6]

9 minutes ago, hntnhole said:

When in the context of anti-social behavior (stealing, damaging other peoples stuff, beating strangers up, etc), then maybe 999999 %.  

It's still just as manipulative. It happens to have a more agreeable effect in cases like those. At least in our opinion.

[BannedWord]

11 hours ago, hntnhole said:

???  I'd never run across that one before, so I asked Mr. Googler about it. Turns out, I've got a streak of that one running up my spine !!!  Obviously, the "eye-candy" quotient wouldn't apply, but - if a guy opens his mouth and I find there's something worth listening to, that only pours gas on the carnal fire.  By the same token, dullards who constantly insist on proving and re-proving their status are not likely to interest me, no matter how hot their physical appearance.  I suppose this is why gags were invented millennia ago....... 

You wouldn't have been alone in having to look that up. It's why I threw some of those terms into this. The flammatory reference you made caused me to think about someone I and some friends know who has an almost militant insistence that everyone should automatically understand everything about the LGBTQIA+++ community and terms. Since perhaps I have more of a foot outside the space, I challenged them on why those outside the community should even care. It's their cause and it's up to them to help educate non-LGBTQ's on "why" certain things matter. It took a bit and forcing them to see outside their limited circle to understand how off-putting their approach could seem.

For the vast majority of people, terms like demisexual, non-binary and others can seem...well...not relatable. Not even all LGTBQIA+++ people understand them after all. 😃 My friend? They'll get over it.

 

[NWUSHorny]

I don't really care about labels or titles in general, but had a curious thought based @TheSRQDudepost. Is there a different term for bisexual, other than bisexual? Homosexual has multiple: gay, queer and if you are a woman lesbian, heterosexual has straight, but I don't remember ever hearing an alternative label for bisexual other than shortening it to just bi. Who knows since it would be obscure, maybe if I knew the term I would like it and use it.

Edited July 14, 2022 by NWUSHorny

[hntnhole]

Well, my position is, call others by whatever they want to be called.  That does not mean I'll carry a crib-sheet around in my pocket, though.  

I don't know if there's any other moniker for bisexual folks, but - if plain old "bisexual" isn't enough, then I agree - it's up to them to explain that fact, and offer the rest of us alternatives.

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by hntnhole

[tallslenderguy]

Wow, some interesting comments and thoughts expressed on this thread.

Re the original question, i cannot remember ever being in denial about my attraction to guys, i can trace it back to specific instances as young as 7 years old. i did grow up in a time and culture that conditioned me to believe that my attraction to guys was both  'sick' and 'sinful.'  

i can remember going to the library as a kid and finding books on homosexuality. Most of them were medical type books. Prior to 1973, the medical community officially labeled homosexuality as a "mental disorder."  As an unsophisticated and ignorant kid, i was trying to find my way. The religious culture i was raised in considers homosexuality perversion of "Gods" intent and "sinful."  As a kid, when i checked out other forms of authority (medical science), it pretty much confirmed for me i was both 'sick' and "sinful."  It might actually have been easier for me had i been in denial about how i am, but i never actually denied my attraction to guys to myself. i didn't tell anyone else till i was 19 years old, when i "confessed" my attraction to guys in a church meeting as part of my effort to resist of change my "sick, sinful" predilection.  

To me, that's very different from denial, and i suspect more than a few from similar cultural circumstances we in a similar boat. Being sexually attracted in a different way was isolating. So many of us grew up with shame, guilt, feeling less than, inferior, etc.. On the other hand, i think for many of us, being different has given us insight and perspective that someone who has not been there does not have... at least, experientially.  

i want to think LBGTQ etc.,  people should be among the most understanding, open and accepting populations out there, but our culture seems to have all the types of people as the dominant cultures do. It seems to me people fall into one of two groups of disposition, and i think for most it's unconscious: those who live and operate under what they believe are absolutes that can be and are known (by them). On the opposite side of that spectrum (to me) i see those who's only absolute knowledge (beyond arithmetic) is the  functional realization their current conclusions could be wrong. 

To me, it's not the words or "labels" we use that fail us, it's the users. We use words/labels as part of our method of communication.  One might tell me: "I'm gay."  An absolutist (as described above) may take those two words and apply their particular "knowledge" of both "I'm" and "gay," and end up either partially or totally missing actually 'seeing' or 'hearing' the person i front of them, and instead only see their idea or notion of that person.

i don't think anyone is totally immune from this. Our brains store both feelings and cognitive ideas about words/labels, and i think the only work around is the pursuit and practice of continuous awareness; purposeful looking and listening vs presumptive 'knowledge.'  i think our typical notion of "knowledge" is backwards. That instead of it being an end point, it is only a beginning point, and that ongoing seeing and hearing put us more in touch with reality than stored knowledge does. 

[BannedWord]

13 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

I don't really care about labels or titles in general, but had a curious thought based @TheSRQDudepost. Is there a different term for bisexual, other than bisexual? Homosexual has multiple: gay, queer and if you are a woman lesbian, heterosexual has straight, but I don't remember ever hearing an alternative label for bisexual other than shortening it to just bi. Who knows since it would be obscure, maybe if I knew the term I would like it and use it.

Androgynous
Switch-hitting
AC/DC
Bi
Swings both ways

Ok, some of those might be offensive and not as charitable or descriptive. 

[NWUSHorny]

26 minutes ago, TheSRQDude said:

Androgynous
Switch-hitting
AC/DC
Bi
Swings both ways

Ok, some of those might be offensive and not as charitable or descriptive. 

I don't think I can pull off the androgynous look, even if I shaved my beard.

I also thought about oversexed addict, but that might be offensive to some people too.

I've been called confused and been accused of being too stupid to make a choice by both straight and gay people. So maybe "choiceless" would work.

Edited July 14, 2022 by NWUSHorny

[hntnhole]

First, allow me to nominate you for the honorary Doctor of Letters Degree from the world-famous BZ University.

This was beautifully conceived and laid out.  I don't recall ever being in denial (once I realized that it was actually possible for guys to have sex with each other).  Talk about being subsumed in the Religo/Cultural boiling cauldron.  But that dam burst it's seams the week I went away to school, and it's been onward and upward ever since.

6 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

To me, that's very different from denial

Yes.  "Denial" implies prior recognition of some position, which (for whatever reason) we have been conditioned to reject.  I think the trick is to recognize the bullshit, but try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  No one should ever "deny" their reality (especially to themselves), when that "reality" is nothing but cultural - or even worse - religious vehicles to control everyone's behavior.  I think the religious anti-gay angle got started when Rome needed cannon-fodder for it's far-flung legions.  Can't make babies for the Emperor if you're pumping it up other guys, right?  With that governmental thought-train, cultural repressions soon followed.  It's all about control - not who you need to fuck or why - it's all about control.  I will admit that it's perhaps a bit easier for someone who instinctively refuses to surrender control easily, but it's an emotional thicket of thorns regardless.

 

6 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

i see those who's only absolute knowledge (beyond arithmetic) is the  functional realization their current conclusions could be wrong. 

And now you know why you deserve that Doctorate.  Reason.  Self examination. Never merely accept, always question the validity of cultural pressures, always reject those with the taste of religious bitterness.  Laurels are for those vines around old Caesar's head - not to rest on.  To extend that line of reasoning, is anything absolute?  Probably, but we get to decide what is and what isn't - no one else.

 

6 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

To me, it's not the words or "labels" we use that fail us, it's the users.

And why is that?  Interesting question, isn't it.  Worthy of no small amount of consideration.  If the "labels" we invent to categorize other folks are unstable, then should these be used at all?  It's an individual decision of course, and it's easier to just say I'm gay when there seems to be little chance of a serious exchange.  Lately there are yard-signs popping up around here with the words "Say Gay" on them.  That, of course, is in reaction to one of  DeathSantis' more recent self-humiliations. But the kernel is still there to be examined.  It takes no small effort to override our cultural bent to rely on labels, and sometimes it's ok to demur to them than challenge them.  Don Quixote, and all of that.  All we can do is figure out where we stand, and not budge on these more ephemeral discoveries.  Doing at least that much though, is important.

 

6 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

think the only work around is the pursuit and practice of continuous awareness; purposeful looking and listening vs presumptive 'knowledge.

Fuck it ..... Despite have zero authority to do so, I'm awarding you that Doctorate here and now.  Turn your tassel, sweet boy.  You get it.  

[BannedWord]

16 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

I don't really care about labels or titles in general, but had a curious thought based @TheSRQDudepost. Is there a different term for bisexual, other than bisexual? Homosexual has multiple: gay, queer and if you are a woman lesbian, heterosexual has straight, but I don't remember ever hearing an alternative label for bisexual other than shortening it to just bi. Who knows since it would be obscure, maybe if I knew the term I would like it and use it.

I worked for an organization some years ago -- one which I'm happy not to work for today -- where the CIO was attempting to explain to his head of development (an over-educated but otherwise dim female who'd been promoted beyond her capability) how to realign tasks and responsibilities that would be shifting across organizations. He decided that he needed to use the old baseball analogy.

That's right. He used pitchers and catchers. And she had a large Excel sheet that outlined who was pitching and who was catching. This became her cause celebre and she was going around to everyone in the group outlining who was pitching and who was catching. It became, for a few of us, nearly impossible to restrain hysterical laughter because she was absolutely clueless on any double-entendre behind the phrase. As soon as she was out of ear shot, people would use an affected tone to ask, "Are you pitching or are you catching?"

Definitely not a politically correct environment or really committed to 'pride'. To this day, when the TV sports comes on and announces Grapefruit League ball here in Florida and when pitchers and catchers report, I'm unable to not think of that situation...and not laugh in hysterics.

[hntnhole]

9 minutes ago, NWUSHorny said:

So maybe "choiceless" would work.

How about:  Refusing to be forced into making a choice?  That'd work too .... a middle finger in the eye of conventionality.

[analluv27]

3 minutes ago, hntnhole said:

How about:  Refusing to be forced into making a choice?  That'd work too .... a middle finger in the eye of conventionality.

I personally never cared for taking on labels. When asked I respond with “I’m me” now I can’t control how others may do. Push comes to shove clinically I’d fall under bisexual.

 I’m a firm believer in get to know who you truly are and what you’re about, then if you want to label yourself fine go ahead. Later on if you come to realize that Label don’t fit drop it. It’s your life live it best to your ability 

[Fillitup57]

It seems to me everyone is different, everyone is raised differently and we reacted differentially. A single path is not going to be the same.  When I was in high school- a nun told me to be what i am as if I was not, then life would be very hard.  I had no idea at the time what she meant but in time I do.  All straight people are not the same and gay people are not the same.  I love sports and have my favorite teams- my alma mater is good in basketball.  When watching them live in the tournament one year, a friend said he was so surprised that I was so into sports, I said why- I grew up in a division 1 college town.  My parents had season tickets to every sport and we lived like 5 blocks to the basketball arena and 7 to the football stadium.  But I understand he was saying it as gay men should not, do not like sports.  Not all straight men like sports.  we all are different.  The hardest thing for me when I came out was the fact of effeminate gay men- I just did not like it- I figured out why- straight people put all gay men in the same catorey- ie they act like woman.  I did get over it in time.  I am what I am and all the experiences and people made me who I am. 

[hntnhole]

12 hours ago, Fillitup57 said:

I love sports and have my favorite teams

I agree.  We're not "supposed" to like sports.  Somehow, the "straights" have arrived at the notion that we only like "lady-stuff" like doilies and decorating and all that mess.  However, there are thriving GAY Sports Bars here that are packed with men and women who only fuck their own gender.  My own favorite is one where the "bar-food" is first class, and you have to get there at least an hour ahead of the game to even get a seat.  Plus - the women fans have a lot of fun hollering shit at opposing fans, and their potty-mouths would blush a dog.  It's a LOT of fun !!!  Fuck stereotyping.

I wish one of my favorite teams would fight half as hard as some of these gay women.  

[hungry_hole]

15 hours ago, hntnhole said:

How about:  Refusing to be forced into making a choice? 

You're right, especially when one is forced into an identity. People choose identities based on personal experience and emotional needs. Some guys, like myself, have sex with guys but would never identify as gay.

[NWUSHorny]

I agree on the stereotypical lifestyle must haves, I'm a miss on almost all of them. I do like to cook, but that is the only one I can identify with.