Racism and gay community

[BlackDude]

Racism is the maldistrtution of wealth and resources and access to those resources to one segment of people based on race and that unequal distribution is codified by law and custom.

That is much different than someone serving you burnt toast in a diner. 
 

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by BlackDude

[Guest hungandmean]

On 11/27/2020 at 11:15 AM, chasejake666 said:

Sorry man, I disagree that racism is the white man's invention. I'm not saying the relationship between whites and everyone else isn't culturally entrenched or a wicked problem, but In Asia, we might all look alike to westerners but we have some really xenophobic cultures and history  - the Japanese have serious issues with foreigners, especially latinos for some reason, because, to your point about power, they were an insular, imperialist, supremacist society for centuries and long before they knew white people existed - during world war 2, they considered the Chinese to be less than insects and had anti-Semitic leanings (even though they had to go abroad to even see a Jew). Some of the stuff they did almost made the nazis look merciful, and there are still many Chinese who loath Japan. Its a three-way tie between asians, greeks and whites in Australia as to who distrusts each other more, Thailand has a whole cultural and societal bias against dark skin despite never being colonised, Cambodia had a regime where they legally persecuted everyone else, and everybody resents the Indians and Pakistanis for the same superficial reasons white people do, hence why they can barely get jobs getting taxis. Here in hong kong, we are increasingly hostile toward the people in Mainland China - literally the same country, just 5 miles away, who themselves are busy putting muslims in camps. As for the muslims, there are hundreds of different ethnic types that i can't tell apart and they all hate each other. This is what I meant about being human - we see each other's origin as a defining feature of difference and its unavoidable that it bleeds into sexual preference.

White racism is different (i think) mostly because it seems to have a more established history of being justified and codified by religious dogma, which the first sciences, laws and moral institutions were guided by (blood purity, eugenics, segregation) - the same reason muslim sexism is in its own league compared to sexism elsewhere - its in the book that defines the universe, and if you point at that, its not wrong. The fact that it led them to control so much of the world would give any demographic a long-standing historical ego complex. But the powerful always persecute the powerless, and the powerless arn't automatically more tolerant or defined by their demographics, its the same all over the world, and its resulted in a lot of misery and oppression in places white people have never held power.  If racism is expecting the worst of somebody because of how they look, or what country they came from, then white people absolutely don't own the patent - they just do a better job of telling people how badly they hide it.

My post wasn't denying prejudices don't exist elsewhere. They always do. I once had an Asian friend explain the reason they hated Black people was because their family owned a bunch of bodegas and it was only the Black people that robbed them. Without delving into allllll of that - hating all Black people because of a bad experience your grandparents had with some Black people is prejudice. 

The reason the distinction between racism, and prejudice, is important (when we're talking about white people in America) -- is that if my friends grandparents relied on the police in those circumstances they are not in the same position of power as a white shop owner would have been. They may not get the same level of support, or response, from law enforcement - especially if there was a language barrier. 

Racism is the ability to wield the state against another group of people without consequence. It's undeniable at this point. We're all seen viral videos of white people calling the cops on, usually, Black people for: walking their dog, driving, buying coffee, swimming, renting an AirBNB, and the list goes on. That's racism. That's the power of it.

I can't speak to other countries. You mentioned Japan - and i've heard it can be xenophobic and nationalistic. The difference is I have yet to hear any stories of frightened Japanese people calling the police because a white person asked to use a Starbucks bathroom and it ending in the death of a white person via their police force. Being ridiculed because you aren't welcome in a space sucks. I doubt it feels good. But you get to be sad about it at home, sans being murdered by a cop who won't face even the smallest bit of repercussions for it. 

[Guest hungandmean]

On 11/27/2020 at 1:32 PM, Spunkinmyarse said:

I have to agree with a lot of what @chasejake666has just posted: those who think that racism is just a white problem clearly haven’t lived in a society where white people aren’t the dominant ethnic group wielding power.

I can’t speak for Japan, as I’ve never been there, but I have lived in China, and the racism against ALL groups who are not Han Chinese is overt and at times brutal.

Claiming that racism is something only white people ‘own’ is dangerous, as it absolves other dominant ethnic groups in other parts of the world of any responsibility for how they treat minority groups in their own society.

When I talk about saying white people own racism I am specifically only talking about the US, and Canada. There is a large group of people who like to claim that uncomfortable or inconvenient experiences they face are, "Reverse racism," and that is simply impossible in a country where the ruling body of police, law enforcement, and politicians are white. 

[Guest hungandmean]

On 11/27/2020 at 10:22 AM, chibtm2breed said:

Members of ANY Race CAN be racist, that’s obvious. It’s wrong to say otherwise. Have I been a victim of racism, of course, you go to into a restaurant and are ignored by the staff while they bend over backward for those of their race. 

Dude that isn't racism. That's

1. Poor customer service

2. Minimum wage workers being overworked, underpaid, and exhausted

3. Perhaps some prejudice or pre-judgment based on the area you're in

4. Maybe they recognized you and know you are a shitty tipper

and

5. Not racism because they didn't call the police on you for being there - and the cops didn't beat the shit out of you for no reason or claim you were resisting arrest and shoot you.

Not racism. Prejudice, maybe. The fact you think getting poor customer service makes you a *VICTIM* of racism is fucking insane. Racism kills people dude. You sound like a baby.

[Spunkinmyarse]

So what you’re saying is that systems/institutions/societies and (going back to the OP) communities can be racist, but on an individual basis people are just prejudiced?  I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but just trying to nail down your definition of this very emotive term.

[BootmanLA]

8 hours ago, Spunkinmyarse said:

So what you’re saying is that systems/institutions/societies and (going back to the OP) communities can be racist, but on an individual basis people are just prejudiced?  I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but just trying to nail down your definition of this very emotive term.

Not to speak for HungandMean, but since your question aligns *only* in part with my own view, I thought I'd address it.

It's not that individuals can only be prejudiced but not racist. It's that individuals *not of the race with power* can't be racist. Individuals who ARE of the race with power - absolutely can be racist. They may NOT be - but (1) that's usually because they work at recognizing racism when they see it, and (2) even if they themselves are not racist, they almost certainly benefit from the racist structures that exist.

I'm curious as to whether his views align with mine and where, if anywhere, they differ.

[Guest hungandmean]

21 hours ago, Spunkinmyarse said:

So what you’re saying is that systems/institutions/societies and (going back to the OP) communities can be racist, but on an individual basis people are just prejudiced?  I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but just trying to nail down your definition of this very emotive term.

Basically. Everyone is a product of their environment and experiences. Prejudices and othering happen. Stereotypes are common. But racism is a an instrument, and a form of power, that truthfully not everyone can wield. There's many examples of this within criminal justice within the US and Canada. There's examples of this within medicine and healthcare as well. Canada recently had a report come out about the racism Indigenous people face when seeking medical help. 

[Guest hungandmean]

12 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Not to speak for HungandMean, but since your question aligns *only* in part with my own view, I thought I'd address it.

It's not that individuals can only be prejudiced but not racist. It's that individuals *not of the race with power* can't be racist. Individuals who ARE of the race with power - absolutely can be racist. They may NOT be - but (1) that's usually because they work at recognizing racism when they see it, and (2) even if they themselves are not racist, they almost certainly benefit from the racist structures that exist.

I'm curious as to whether his views align with mine and where, if anywhere, they differ.

We're in agreement. You've brought up a difficult subject - that of white privilege. It's a difficult concept considering the economic struggles most people face. People can honestly say things like, "I've never personally done anything to harm someone of color," and can also claims things such as, "I am economically struggling," and, "I have faced persecution of my own because I am gay,"

All of these things can be true. It doesn't take away from the fact that as gay white men - we still have access to power that other people don't. There is definitely a hierarchy when it boils down. Rich, white, gay, is still rich and white at the end of the day. No rich white person is scared to call 911 worrying that the cops might roll up and shoot them. 

[BootmanLA]

11 hours ago, hungandmean said:

We're in agreement. You've brought up a difficult subject - that of white privilege. It's a difficult concept considering the economic struggles most people face. People can honestly say things like, "I've never personally done anything to harm someone of color," and can also claims things such as, "I am economically struggling," and, "I have faced persecution of my own because I am gay,"

All of these things can be true. It doesn't take away from the fact that as gay white men - we still have access to power that other people don't. There is definitely a hierarchy when it boils down. Rich, white, gay, is still rich and white at the end of the day. No rich white person is scared to call 911 worrying that the cops might roll up and shoot them. 

The best way I've heard white privilege explained is this: No matter how tough you may have it, how many struggles you face economically, personally, or whatever, you don't have the additional burden that being a person of color would add - and it essentially *always* adds to the burden. 

[BlackDude]

Good discussion here. But like I said before in another post, I am not going to get the white guys all the credit. Most of the racism I have experience from gays have been from Latins and Asians, many who come from cultures of anti-black racism. Most of the racism I’ve seen from white guys ate usually guys who are insecure. However, from my experience, I’d say the  the ratio of non-white racism is 70/30 from the people o have encountered in the gay community.
 

I kind of compare it to young gangster or a person who wants to join the Sicilian mob who is really not Sicilian. It’s like they have to go above and beyond and prove something to themselves psychologically. Many have made a deal with themselves and society: in exchange for not fighting for equality we will settle as being number two in society. As long as we are not treated as blacks. Many of the people you see defending racism are not white people at all, but other “people of color” who see themselves as a buffer class. Sure , they’ll never be white (despite how they choose to classify themselves for how much they try to “clean up” their history) but as long as they can get a few crumbs, and maintain sexual and social access to white men, they will gladly participate and even defend full on racism.

[BootmanLA]

21 hours ago, BlackDude said:

Good discussion here. But like I said before in another post, I am not going to get the white guys all the credit. Most of the racism I have experience from gays have been from Latins and Asians, many who come from cultures of anti-black racism. Most of the racism I’ve seen from white guys ate usually guys who are insecure. However, from my experience, I’d say the  the ratio of non-white racism is 70/30 from the people o have encountered in the gay community.
 

I kind of compare it to young gangster or a person who wants to join the Sicilian mob who is really not Sicilian. It’s like they have to go above and beyond and prove something to themselves psychologically. Many have made a deal with themselves and society: in exchange for not fighting for equality we will settle as being number two in society. As long as we are not treated as blacks. Many of the people you see defending racism are not white people at all, but other “people of color” who see themselves as a buffer class. Sure , they’ll never be white (despite how they choose to classify themselves for how much they try to “clean up” their history) but as long as they can get a few crumbs, and maintain sexual and social access to white men, they will gladly participate and even defend full on racism.

All true. And I note your point about Latins and Asians who come from cultures of anti-black racism. In those cultures, they're the majority with privilege, and the darker skinned people are still the ones against whom the racism is targeted.

Heck, in this country, at the turn of the 20th century, being Italian was barely a step above black. People reminisce about "italian neighborhoods" without always realizing the reason those neighborhoods existed was that Italians were unwelcome in areas that already had been settled by "white" (ie English, German, Irish, Dutch, etc.) people. Most ethnic enclaves in the US were created not so much as a way of cultures clinging together (though that did happen) but because people of that culture were rejected by the society at large. 

The oldest country club in my southern home city had a rule that pretty much anyone whose name ended in a vowel other than "e" or "u" was ineligible for membership. Those two letters were acceptable (though hardly a guarantee of acceptance) because of the number of French names ending in one or the other. By contrast, "a", "i" and "o" were associated with people of Latin or Italian descent, which was an absolute no-no.

[Collar4chemboys]

On 8/6/2020 at 6:36 PM, blondy said:

I'm a blond, blue eyed, fair skinned Caucasian with a moderately hairy body (although blond hair against fair skin tends to disappear). I have a fairly muscular build, which I did nothing to deserve and put most simply, I prefer guys who are not made in my image/likeness: I am not at all sexually attracted to Caucasian and/or hairy guys, but find slim guys with smooth dark skin to be irresistible!

 

I have tried to put this preference as positively as possible on my BBRT profile (feel free to check it out), but I still get a lot of interest from Caucasian/hairy men who will repeatedly message me.  Unfortunately, some of them become aggressive when I refuse their offer (I believe in always answering every message - it is just good manners).  In one case, I got the whole "you are a racist" tirade when I explained that I am not sexually attracted to Caucasian men. I've got a stock response that is polite and respectful that I send to  guys whom are not my type ... and for the most part, they just ignore me an move on although  one guy responded "I just want to marry you based on your email" ... said in jest of course, but the point being that respect goes a long way.

 

I don't mind who someone is: manners and respect are sexy, and being able to explain to people what your sexual preference is without having to resort to insults appears not to be a common skill. I think the age of entitlement means that for some, race brings a right to behave as you please ... its an ugly trait in the gay community and I believe that we are (all) better when we can leave that in the past.

Thank you . Since Covid started it's been pretty bad for most Asians .

I have told in person or online to go back to China and eat Bat Chow Mein !   Here is the thing I am not from China, and not exactly your typical Asian either , 6ft3 , 220 ,often get mistaken as cop, actually I am licensed to carry as an investigator.    ( Btw althought I rarely BTM nor BTM to anyone shorter than me even though I am fully versatile...I am rather selective  ,  but your profile is fucking hot !!!!!) 

 

Cheers 

[verbalBTTM]

Speaking for myself as a New Yorker I'm a "talentist" meaning i find people with mindsets & talents most desirable. Twinks are pretty but just can't rock my world. Above 30 is usually where i find people to start becoming interesting. This is usually where people begin to specialize sexually especially in the realm of kink. There are exceptions to this rule, but i find it to be mostly true. 

Qualities i look for are fetishes, creativity, mindset, hand or cock size, communication & how sleazy they are. Also a sucker for a good cook & a welcoming host who can provide good conversation. 

Any other considerations are irrelevant to me since i don't find them stimulating or useful. However on the flip side i have been getting more attention from east Asians these last few months which has been rather enjoyable.

 

If other's are going to be stupid and yes racism is stupid, you're not going to change them. You just can't fix stupid. best to just capitalize upon there inability to see the good time that you can. There loss & your gain. 

[Webster9]

On 8/5/2020 at 6:59 PM, Ranger Rick said:

My thought is people are attracted to what attracts them and no one owes sex to someone he isn't attracted to. 

I agree with this, even though I've had some pretty great sex with a lot of different colors, nationalities, etc.

[gwmxyz]

Racism, snobbery, homophobia are all the same.
Take the world. Divide is into two groups - us and them. Attribute stereotyped characteristics to each. Cling on to these even when contradicted by the facts (eg Kwasi Kwarteng isn't properly black)
Anyone can do it.  And the list of reasons is endless.
They are all nonsense for the same reason: there is either one type of human or there are as many different types as there have been different people.
We forget that our categories and stereotypes are not reality.  They are crude generalisations we use to help us understand a reality which would otherwise be too much for our brains to handle.
The idea that "white people" or "the Chinese" are racist is daft.  Some are. Some aren't. Some might look at you contemptuously as you go into the club. Others will fuck you when you're in. Others still might do both.  And in fairness, it's not like nobody stereotypes the Chinese.
We all stereotype. It's impossible not to. The problem is when we start to think our stereotypes are reality.  I don't believe people in general are assholes. They just sound that way when they generalise. Ask them about actual people - and they seem a lot nicer.
And, of course, fucks are actual people. I've been fucked by total bottoms and people who aren't into white guys. And countless straight guys...
And been lectured while being fucked about all the bad things I did in the Opium Wars. But as he always cums in me, it doesn't bother me too much.