Racism and gay community

[Hungry4bbc]

Funny I had a dream last night that I was supposed to start a new thread here called "racial fetishism: preference or prejudice?" 

I was thinking about it because grindr removed the ethnicity filter and it got me thinking... I know my preference for black dick goes back to my childhood and adolescence but my experience is very unique as I was the only white guy in my school from 6th grade thru high school. I dated black girls before I understood my sexuality. 

I'm also into Latin guys, Arab, etc and am not completely opposed to a white guy but he would have to be the kind with hot swagger I love like justin timberlake or Joseph Gordon Levitt but I have yet to meet a white guy who turns me on and also is interested in me.  So I definitely have a  preference IN ADDITION to a fetish. 

I am most comfortable around black people , period, but I also love to service, submit to , and take black dick. 

While I understand why racial fetishization is problematic and offensive in it's most basic form,  especially when it is exclusive rather than inclusive, the truth is that some guys like blondes and some like big titties and some like fem and some like dom. Sexuality is complicated and in situations where sexual preferences intersect with fetishism and racism, there's never one truth.

[GermanFucker]

Bear with me: Playing a bit of devils advocate here / maybe using slight exaggeration in order to be provocative.

21 hours ago, Spunkinmyarse said:

Haha- I was thinking just the same!  I love being objectified: it’s an important part of my self-identification as a cumdump.  Now, if you only objectify men from certain particular racial groups, that’s clearly racist, but otherwise I think it’s a perfectly healthy part of the gay psyche.

Many of us here have struggled internally for years to free ourselves of the heteronormative standards imposed on us by society at large: don’t tell me I need to start wining and dining every potential fuck just to prove I respect them as people.

If you drive the argument to the extreme (not saying you're doing that, just trying to get a point across), one could say: "Because I like being objectified, it's ok that I objectify others." But isn't that a egocentric delusion? If I choose to be reduced to being a just a hole, are other men just cocks?

16 hours ago, hungry_hole said:

In terms of sex between men I make a distinction between anonymous and non-anonymous relationships. Anonymous encounters are meant to fulfill fetishes therefore respect plays no role in these situations. However, in non-anonymous relationships or encounters you have two people and respect has a place here. SO, yes, in a relationship it would make sense to me if a black guy would complain the way his white partner treats him.  But you won't change the world of anonymous sex.

 

Again, for argument's sake: Isn't anonymous sex a choice exactly because it allows us to de-humanize the other? Taking your hypothetical white guy: Would that guy who deliberately chooses / prefers to have anonymous sex with a black guy so he doesn't have to respect him as a person, really be in a relationship with a black guy?

 

 

[hungry_hole]

12 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Yes, it's true that there is a broader preference (among at least a notably-sized portion of the gay community) for large-sized cocks. But the fact that big is popular doesn't render the term "BBC" race-neutral. 

The same way many black men are offended by the term BBC, I'm sure there are many black men who take pride of that characterization and of being a top. I may be wrong but I doubt it.

The term BBC cannot be race neutral because of the idea that black men are the ones with big cocks. If the men from Alabama were the ones to have big cocks the term would be Big Alabama Cock (BAC). I think the problem is that nowadays people are relying too much on emotional safe-spaces forgetting that the world out there is far from a big emotional safe-space. Trying to control the entire world around oneself so that nobody will offend you makes no sense because that will never happen. It's best to learn how to deal with the shame of being offended because you only need to control yourself and that's totally possible. 

[GermanFucker]

1 hour ago, hungry_hole said:

The same way many black men are offended by the term BBC, I'm sure there are many black men who take pride of that characterization and of being a top. I may be wrong but I doubt it.

 It's best to learn how to deal with the shame of being offended because you only need to control yourself and that's totally possible. 

Offended or annoyed?

Funny, I think it's often not necessarily the one being objectified that is feeling offended. Being a 40th generation Northwest European I cannot imagine what it is like to be fetishized as a "BBC", but I do fit the BBG (big bad German) stereotype. I exude a kind of "pin you to the wall and hammer your cunt into a bloody pulp" energy, that "getting hit by a freight train" vibe. And as a total top, sure I'm being objectified. And I don't give a shit about it. But often I find that it's the bottoms that are getting offended if I tell them that I'm on my way to the gym or that I have made plans to hang with my bros rather than breed their precious little pussies (being sarcastic here).

 

[Spunkinmyarse]

I feel that anonymous sex is being demonized here, and that’s what I’m not happy about.  For me, anonymous sex has absolutely nothing to do with race.  When I’m head down arse up on a fuck bench in a sex club, I usually have absolutely no idea what colour the dick fucking me is.  When I strike such a pose, it’s clear to everyone that I’m seeking a level of self-objectification, and anyone who chooses to fuck me must expect a degree of objectification in return, whatever their racial background. Otherwise, don’t fuck me.

Objectification in sex is a fascinating subject, and should not simply be dismissed as a ruse to hide racial prejudice.  Paradoxically, it can open up a path to greater spiritual awareness and a sense of common humanity which transcends race, gender and whole lot more.  But that discussion belongs in a different thread, which I may start, if I can be bothered: I feel we’re in danger of straying way off topic here.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Spunkinmyarse

[GermanFucker]

1 hour ago, Spunkinmyarse said:

I feel that anonymous sex is being demonized here, and that’s what I’m not happy about. [...] When I strike such a pose, it’s clear to everyone that I’m seeking a level of self-objectification, and anyone who chooses to fuck me must expect a degree of objectification in return, whatever their racial background. [...]

Objectification in sex is a fascinating subject, and should not simply be dismissed as a ruse to hide racial prejudice.  

If I employed sarcasm for argument's sake, you should not mistake that as demonization. And I don't want to dismiss self-objectification as a ruse for racism. I don't think it's a ruse. However, inasfar as objectification overlaps with de-humanization, it is a prerequisite for racial prejudice. A sexual object is seen differently than a human being. 

It takes a certain level of self-awareness and self-actualization to see a sexual partner as a human being and still do the nasty, perverted, borderline illegal stuff that you're into with him. Many guys lack the mental clarity and courage for that. They need to make abstractions and objectifications lest they feel ashamed of themselves.

1 hour ago, Spunkinmyarse said:

Paradoxically, it can open up a path to greater spiritual awareness and a sense of common humanity which transcends race, gender and whole lot more.  But that discussion belongs in a different thread, which I may start, if I can be bothered: I feel we’re in danger of straying way off topic here.

I do get the "spiritual" aspect of taking personality out of the sexual equation and to interact on a purely instinctual level, just dicks, asses and seed, the child-like aspect of treating one's own body and others' merely as playthings, as toys. It is a very self-centered way of having sex - not that there is something wrong with that. "Learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all......"

If I'm being snarky it's just because I rather fall into the other camp. What's that quote by some last-century Hollywood diva and notorious slut: "I have indeed loved all of my men, even if it was just for half an hour"?

My point is simply that the same mechanisms that can be used in the most innocent way to make yourself feel good (e.g. objectification) can also be tools to make others feel bad. As in all things, context is king and awareness is everything.

And sorry if I get to cerebral, it's just sometimes I not only like the sex, but also the discussion. In real life I think everybody should fuck everybody and within three generations we would all be a lovely shade of Maya Rudolph and the whole stupid racism shit would be over.

 

 

[BlackDude]

The City of SF is currently being sued for discrimination, most of which was overseen and approved and carried out by a lot of non-black gays. Black employees were overwhelmingly disproportionately denied promotions, failed probation and were harassed. Can the “preference” guys explain this? Since their preference only extends to the bedroom? 

[BootmanLA]

4 hours ago, hungry_hole said:

I think the problem is that nowadays people are relying too much on emotional safe-spaces forgetting that the world out there is far from a big emotional safe-space. Trying to control the entire world around oneself so that nobody will offend you makes no sense because that will never happen. It's best to learn how to deal with the shame of being offended because you only need to control yourself and that's totally possible. 

Personally I think an equal or larger problem is that nowadays some people feel so entitled to be assholes to others in public forgetting that the world out there doesn't always approve of assholes. Trying to force the entire world around oneself to accept one's assholity so that one never feels constrained to hold back any thought, no matter how rude or obnoxious, makes no sense because that will never happen. It's best to learn how to deal with the fact that living in a society means, to at least some degree, accepting the limits that society expects.

In other words: Sure, a person can say racist things. He just shouldn't expect not to be called out on them, if he does. And he shouldn't whine about "emotional safe spaces", which makes him sound like the snowflake he's allegedly protesting.

[Spunkinmyarse]

45 minutes ago, GermanFucker said:

I do get the "spiritual" aspect of taking personality out of the sexual equation and to interact on a purely instinctual level, just dicks, asses and seed, the child-like aspect of treating one's own body and others' merely as playthings, as toys. It is a very self-centered way of having sex - not that there is something wrong with that. "Learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all......“

No, no, no- you’re missing the point entirely.  By taking out the personality, you are removing the individual.  This enables you to access the general, and ultimately the universal:  therein lies the “spiritual” aspect of anonymous sex.  

By putting individuality to one side, I feel that anonymous sex allows me to make connection with ALL men in general, rather than just ONE man in particular.  On rare occasions when that connection is good, I sometimes feel I am in union with the whole of humanity, and am being given a glimpse of some universal truth that I find hard to understand, yet alone articulate.  Powerful stuff!

It really isn’t just a case of “dicks, asses and seed”. It certainly is much more cerebral than that!  But as I said in my earlier post, it doesn’t really belong in this thread, so if you want to discuss it further, please feel free to pm me.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Spunkinmyarse

[BlackDude]

Can some of the “preference” (it’s just sex) guy explain to me how the City of SF is being sued for discrimination that was allowed, overlooked and in many cases promoted racism by many if it’s non-white, gay employees? (I have friends Who works for the city and test in this Who works for the city and test in this culture within the city government). Since this is just all about black guys complaining about not getting white guys and “preference.”

 

[hungry_hole]

17 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Personally I think an equal or larger problem is that nowadays some people feel so entitled to be assholes to others in public forgetting that the world out there doesn't always approve of assholes. Trying to force the entire world around oneself to accept one's assholity so that one never feels constrained to hold back any thought, no matter how rude or obnoxious, makes no sense because that will never happen. It's best to learn how to deal with the fact that living in a society means, to at least some degree, accepting the limits that society expects.

In other words: Sure, a person can say racist things. He just shouldn't expect not to be called out on them, if he does. And he shouldn't whine about "emotional safe spaces", which makes him sound like the snowflake he's allegedly protesting.

You are assuming that people are always aware that they are offending, causing shame or belittling someone with a comment. A horny guy who's obsessed with big cocks and who has built up a fetish for black cock is not trying to offend anyone. He's just horny and wants to have fun with his fetish. Instead of jumping right away to the "feeling offended" online is best to chill and assume there is no intention to offend anyone. You cannot control assholes but you can control yourself.

A divorced guy told me that when he was married, his then wife would complain when she found his underwear on the floor. She would say "Why do you expect me to pick up your underwear?" He never had an answer for her when he was living alone and heard his wife voice. He looked at the underwear on the floor and realized he didn't expect anyone to pick up the underwear from the floor and stepped over it. His wife assumed that she was being used, etc and a thus a victim. It seems that now everyone wants to be a victim.

[BootmanLA]

12 hours ago, hungry_hole said:

You are assuming that people are always aware that they are offending, causing shame or belittling someone with a comment. A horny guy who's obsessed with big cocks and who has built up a fetish for black cock is not trying to offend anyone. He's just horny and wants to have fun with his fetish. Instead of jumping right away to the "feeling offended" online is best to chill and assume there is no intention to offend anyone. You cannot control assholes but you can control yourself.

A divorced guy told me that when he was married, his then wife would complain when she found his underwear on the floor. She would say "Why do you expect me to pick up your underwear?" He never had an answer for her when he was living alone and heard his wife voice. He looked at the underwear on the floor and realized he didn't expect anyone to pick up the underwear from the floor and stepped over it. His wife assumed that she was being used, etc and a thus a victim. It seems that now everyone wants to be a victim.

You assume that offense has to be intentional. I'm quite sure that a lot of really nasty racist comments are made NOT with the intention of being offensive, but just because the person making them has an offensive perspective and just blurts out what's on his mind. When one of my male redneck cousins asked me, at my grandmother's funeral, who I thought "the n-words" were going to vote for that year for governor, it wasn't that he was trying to be offensive; he just was saying what was on his mind and it was an offensive thought.

As for your comment with the wife and the underwear: The problem there isn't that she wanted to be a victim; it's that she had one standard for cleanliness and he had another. Whose is correct isn't an answerable question, because there's no inherent "right" or "wrong" there. Advice columnist Dan Savage coined the term "price of admission" for relationships; we're all entitled to set certain terms as the price of being in a relationship with us, and other people are entitled to choose whether they're willing to pay that price. For instance, I won't be in a relationship with a cigarette smoker. And I'd end any relationship with someone who took up that habit. It's not that cigarette smoking is definitively bad or good, moral or immoral, or whatever; I've just drawn a line there, and I'm entitled to make that my line.

For the wife, part of the price of admission was him keeping his dirty underwear off the floor. That was a price he was unwilling to pay. The problem wasn't her wanting to "be a victim"; the problem was a mismatch as to what each expected in the relationship.

[hungry_hole]

10 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

When one of my male redneck cousins asked me, at my grandmother's funeral, who I thought "the n-words" were going to vote for that year for governor, it wasn't that he was trying to be offensive; he just was saying what was on his mind and it was an offensive thought.

This situation is different from what I am discussing here because it's personal and not anonymous. I'm saying that guys should chill when you find in the Internet some post that says some horny guy likes to be bred by BBCs. 

10 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

You assume that offense has to be intentional. I'm quite sure that a lot of really nasty racist comments are made NOT with the intention of being offensive, but just because the person making them has an offensive perspective and just blurts out what's on his mind.

I once heard a saying that I liked a lot because it sets you free: "Try hard not to offend people, but try even harder not to feel offended."

[bbpoznow]

I try not to offend any one. I have mentioned I like BBC but not intending to offend. I just find it is more appealing to me . But will not turn down any  or any status 

[subbytch]

I get that not everyone is everyone's type. That extends to skin colors as well. Whether that is something learned, biological, or phobic, is another discussion.

But whatever your preference isn't, being a dick about it isn't required. "No X Y or Z"  on a profile is an example of being a dick. Insulting someone who hits you up for not being what you want is being a dick. Talking about how people of X race aren't attractive, as if that were the case for everyone, is being a dick.

"I'm flattered, but we're not a match" is a perfectly acceptable way to nicely turn someone down.  Don't be an ass about what you like and don't like.