Gay men's private campground

[Justaholeff]

Hey Guys, so just read an article how some are upset that a private gay men's campground only allows gay men born male into the camp. The owner states that it is certainly a private men's campground and resort and that it's not open to everyone publicly. If it was open to anyone it would just be a campground. He also stated that since it's a private club exclusive for gay men it is not like he is refusing service based on transphobia ie the cake and Christian issue.. The Trans and Lesbian community are upset and find it transphobic. What do yall think?

[blackrobe]

9 minutes ago, Justaholeff said:

Hey Guys, so just read an article how some are upset that a private gay men's campground only allows gay men born male into the camp. The owner states that it is certainly a private men's campground and resort and that it's not open to everyone publicly. If it was open to anyone it would just be a campground. He also stated that since it's a private club exclusive for gay men it is not like he is refusing service based on transphobia ie the cake and Christian issue.. The Trans and Lesbian community are upset and find it transphobic. What do yall think?

In general, as a private campground they can set what restrictions they want on who can be there. Male only spaces and public sex environments are disappearing so there is an argument to be made that these spaces need to be defended. I find the idea that lesbians are upset about a male-only campground surprising given the past militancy of lesbians about women only spaces, and the actions of broader women's organizations making similar bio-women restrictions to exclude transwomen from events. It doesn't make much sense to me to prevent gay transmen from attending. They are gay and men, so what's the problem? 

If the specific campground you are referring to is Camp Boomerang RV Park and Campground, then based on what I've read some of them sound like transphobic pieces of crap. There's this quote from one of the founders:

Quote

“Let’s be real here,” Quinn stated in another comment. “If we let women that act like men in, and they go naked at the pool, that’s when it’s obvious that there’s no penis. Sorry to put it bluntly. But if you don’t like the rules, quietly leave.”

That's grade A misgendering transphobic bullshit, right there. If gay men are ever going to get over any *feelings* they have about transmen, they are going to have to interact with them to do it. If people can't deal with a few gay trans guys sprinkled into a group of gay men, I'm forced to wonder whether they are already metaphorically emasculated themselves.

[BootmanLA]

Let me start by noting a few points.

First, it's true that at least some federal courts have upheld the right of truly private clubs to restrict membership on a basis that would otherwise not be permissible for a commercial business to restrict patrons; e.g. a truly private club can have a "no black members" rule while a restaurant can't refuse to serve black customers.

That said, there are no magic words that make a club "private" and simply declaring yourself to be private doesn't make it so. Courts spend a significant amount of time in such cases reviewing very closely the nature of said "private clubs". It's certainly not uncommon for courts to toss out such claims when they're clearly just a flimsy fiction covering up for what is otherwise commercial discrimination.

The cases I'm most familiar with involve certain old-line Mardi Gras Krewes in New Orleans. Because they are actual social clubs, which host events for members, in which members are expected to participate, and for which members pay hefty dues, elect officers, and otherwise operate in the traditional "club" manner, their status as private clubs has generally been upheld (even as gradually most have chosen to integrate; there are only a handful that are still all-white/all-male organizations). 

For what it's worth, under that kind of standard, I doubt seriously this campground has a leg to stand on, if someone with a good lawyer decides to sue. I'm sure whatever "dues" there are for joining this "club" will be nominal, its primary operational costs will be covered by transactional fees for camping there, and that they'll undertake virtually no other activities other than offering campsites for a fee. Those are all classic signs of trying to dodge the rules and federal judges, in general, don't like that. (Of course, with the influx of Trumpanzees on the federal bench, you never know whether that'll continue to be the case.)

Now: if they truly wanted to be a private club, they could probably get away with it. Charge every member enough dues to essentially cover all the costs of operating the campground, including paying the note, and allow members the privilege of camping any time they want. Of course, that implies having enough campground space to accommodate all the members, which they probably won't have (which is another sign it's not really a private club). It's okay for a private club to have side income - for instance, you could operate a snack bar or even an onsite restaurant, where profits (revenues in excess of costs) go to help offset overall expenses. But you'd have to sell a lot of hamburgers and hot dogs to pay the mortgage and the salaries of the people who operate the place.

As for your last point (that LGBT people find it transphobic): Of COURSE it is. That's the entire reason they're doing it. They're gay men who don't want to ever have to accidentally look at a vagina, even on one belonging to a (trans) gay man, and they're trying to find a legal way to make sure they never do. They're assholes.

[drscorpio]

Do they have the right to do this? Sure. 

Does the LGBTQ+ have the right and ability to protest and boycott their transphobic asses? Damn right we do. 

Transmen are men. Excluding people based on the gender they were assigned at birth is transphobic. I cannot see how you can possibly think it is anything but. 

[Justaholeff]

I'm glad I posted this....what a great discussion ...just to share my personal view I have,  of course, no problem with the T in LGBT.....Since gay men have and are marginalized I can also understand having a place for ourselves and to me that would include transmen who identifies as gay. 

 

[Swampboi]

I’m fine with an all male space— but trans men are men and should be welcome. Additionally, I’ve gone to gay sex events with trans men in attendance. It’s really no different don’t over think it. That’s a dude. 
 

 

[BootmanLA]

2 hours ago, drscorpio said:

Do they have the right to do this? Sure. 

Does the LGBTQ+ have the right and ability to protest and boycott their transphobic asses? Damn right we do. 

Transmen are men. Excluding people based on the gender they were assigned at birth is transphobic. I cannot see how you can possibly think it is anything but. 

I'm not entirely sure - as I noted - that they do have the right to do this. If they're deemed a commercial entity, then (thanks to of all people, Neil Gorsuch) they're running afoul of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Gorsuch wrote the opinion for the 6-3 majority that held "sex", as used in that act, included both sexual orientation and gender identity.

[Shotsfired]

I personally have no issue sharing space with trans men.  My dick,  which does what it wants without regard to my thought processes, definitely has no problem with trans men sharing a space. My dick responds to transmen the same as it does to men born with a penis. It gets sprung. So I will go with my dick's input that my mind agrees with that trans men are men that should be welcomed in male spaces without stigma from narrow minded jerks who are missing out on great people. 

[Guest hungandmean]

The real question here at the end of the day boils down to, "Do trans men, who like other men, have a right to be in gay spaces?" 

The only inclusive answer is yes. There's no reason to not include these men in these spaces.

 

[DarkroomTaker]

As I will be in the minority, I will keep my opinions and experiences to myself to ensure that I dont cause any trouble.

[Spunkinmyarse]

57 minutes ago, DarkroomTaker said:

As I will be in the minority, I will keep my opinions and experiences to myself to ensure that I dont cause any trouble.

Haha- wise move, mate!  You’ll be torn to pieces and maybe even ‘cancelled’ if you deviate one iota from the accepted political line on this 🤣

[Guest PARTYPIGBEAR]

1 hour ago, DarkroomTaker said:

As I will be in the minority, I will keep my opinions and experiences to myself to ensure that I dont cause any trouble.

Well I want to know. I thought one of the reasons for this type of communication was to challenge our thoughts, beliefs and preconceptions? So if you wouldn’t mind, tell me. 

[bbpoznow]

hey gay or trans , mtf or Ftm  so what . I have been to   some in the US and have no problem with them. 

[MuscledHorse]

It's SJW's looking for the next thing to be outraged over. I am not surprised at a male's only establishment where the requirement is a cock between your legs. It's not unique to this establishment or bathhouses/sex clubs by any stretch. Last time CLAW occurred (2019) there was a huge uproar over the fact Flex bathhouse had the same requirement.

[myDNA4u]

As  someone who actually knows the owners of Camp Boomerang, I can without doubt state that they are not transphobic and do indeed totally support trans rights. That being said Mr. Quinn's comment was extremely insensitive and way off the mark. However having been to a large number of gay campgrounds the majority of which are clothing optional men only places, I can tell you that the sexual energy in those places is very high. Inddeed all but one that I have been to have one or more areas specifically set aside as "play" spaces. At some sexual activity goes on virtually everywhere, think outdoor bathhouse. For me personally no matter how attracted I might me to a guy (and I have a weakness for men of shorter stature which trans men often are) the minute the pants come off and there's no penis, I have absolutely zero sexual interest. 

The majority of women only campgrounds do not allow trans women. No one seems to be complaining about that. So I see a level of hypocrisy in complaining about one campground being exclusively for cis-gendered males. And would anyone complain about any place that was only for trans people of either type? I think not.