NWUSHorny

Based on my personal experience is that it is somewhat regional, there are definitely places that couldn't support a sex club or bathhouse that is setup primarily for group sex, and other regions where they have multiple thriving venues for that very thing. The PNW is one of the regions where it doesn't happen, and I think it would be difficult to curate even a small group to have that kind of orgy on a regular basis. That is pretty much against local etiquette here. Even offering can be problematic here, there are a lot of "sides" that don't even do oral, plus a lot of committed bottoms that consider their dick to be off limits, both of which are likely to make a scene if you even offer.

I mostly agree, however if you are waving a hard dick around in a darkroom or in rarer cases group play spaces, you can expect to get groped and if you don't stop them have your dick guided into their mouth or ass, I don't resist and usually wind up fucking them at least briefly. I have an orgy that I like to go to in LA that literally has a list of what you are consenting to posted outside their darkroom, one of the advisories is you are free to grope and will be groped, and one of the rules is no talking, so there is no verbal consent. The last line on the notice is "enjoy!", and I do whole heartedly every chance I get. I've never had a guy that I don't know at all walk up and shove his dick up my ass uninvited other than when I'm bent over or legs up in an group play space, but have had guys who I have gotten to know intimately that will walk up and shove their dick up my ass while I'm fucking or sucking another guy at an orgy. Rather than make a scene telling them NO I always make sure I thank them one way or another quite often by trading places with them every few minutes. There are some of us that really do enjoy both positions and flipping with the same guy. None of those things happen very often at orgies or sex venues in the PNW, I won't force myself on anyone, but standing around for hours watching guys pose and get blue balls in a sexually charged atmosphere with absolutely no actual sex happening, which is the norm here, frustrates me and can see that it could drive some guys to push it to try to get something started more than is acceptable by local custom. Presenting as open as you possibly can, does present problems, the poster on the other thread gets guys trying to fuck themselves on him, which actually welcome. I get guys that either just start having what I consider pointless foreplay with me or try to insist we go somewhere more private to have foreplay or something even less than foreplay.

I was beefy and covered with a full pelt a fine blonde almost transparent hair by the time I was 20. I don't deal well with heat.

I would have been 20 the 1st time I had my ass eaten and ate ass.

An interesting discussion has arisen out of this thread about orgies and group sex. While I don't think the answer can or should be the same for every orgy or venue that hosts gay group sex should be the same, you simply cannot be inclusive for everyone and allow everyone to get what they need and are looking for. For some background the discussion is in my opinion around free for all orgy action. Another poster and I live in very similar gay sex cultures currently, but my formative experiences were in a very different environment. That environment does still exist in some cities. I really miss certain behaviors where consent can generally be implied, that are generally culturally prohibited here in the PNW, but the point has been made that not all orgy goers will find that situation acceptable, and I generally agree with him that the behaviors discussed are never acceptable under the accepted rules of engagement anywhere in the PNW. So here are my questions: How should you establish the rules of consent if you are hosting an orgy or operating a sex venue? Is posting some general rules sufficient? In the other thread, I cited an orgy in LA that has rules posted outside their darkroom that advises those entering that their consent is implied. I also cited 4 sex clubs/bathhouses, half of which are no longer open where consent for that kind of behavior has long been implied, but was not or has not specifically been spelled out. While having a bottom suddenly impale himself on my dick did surprise and stun me the 1st time it happened to me, I actually enjoyed it and have sought out situatiins where it can happen ever since, where as other posters compared it to rape. Is it necessary for every gay orgy sex venue to be inclusive and accepting of every gay interest and position? There are a lot of guys at orgies and at sex venues in the PNW that are pretty adamant that no one touch their cock either because they are a form of gay side or a committed total bottom, which in my opinion generally runs contrary to the basic concept of darkroom sex and quite a few other gay group sex situations. I know it isn't what I'm looking for in a free for all orgy, but everyone does have right to say no. I also think we should be able to find or create those situations with other like minded individuals. Any other thoughts or ideas on how to attain consent for group free for all orgies or should they be prohibited entirely?

The locker room in the intermural rec facility was cruisy, but most of the action took place in the steam sauna. I still can't manage having sex for more than 30 seconds in a steam sauna before tapping out, so it wasn't one of my haunts unless I was there to use the pool.

I think it is a combination of disclosure and consent, the orgy venue I mentioned in LA, seems to be making an attempt to resolve the issue by posting a sign outside their darkroom (I can provide you a link to their website in private chat if you are going to be in LA and are interested in checking it out, I don't post it publicly but have shared it privately with several guys on BZ that I think would enjoy that kind of orgy), but I have never seen anything like that elsewhere. Should the other venues and events be providing the disclosure? If you know upfront before entering the space is implied consent, I don't personally see it as an issue. I personally actually seek it out, and definitely prefer doing it in a way where everyone doesn't have to feel like their walking on eggshells all the time. Not every event and venue has to be inclusive to every variation on gay sex, and some of really do enjoy orgies that are basically free for alls. The lack of those free for all situations is a primary driver of my complaints about the gay hookup culture in the PNW, a real effort has been made to keep everything inclusive, and some of us are frustrated because that inclusive environment does not allow us to do what we enjoy with other like minded individuals. There are places in the world where what I like and what I think @muscmtl likes is fairly easily found, or at least there has been in the past. If you prefer orgies that are gangbangs, where there are designated bottoms and everyone else is there to top, go to those events. I have gone a few times as one of the tops, but as a versatile guy it doesn't really meet my needs and desires. There are a lot of them posted on the hookup apps in some cities. I would say that they are welcome if they are willing to go along with the implied rules of engagement, in instances where it isn't a blackout situation most of them appear to be having a good time. I will admit they won't be my favorite fellow participants, but if they're ass up there is a very good chance I will fuck them. As long as they are actively participating I'm certainly not going to make them feel unwelcome. Bottoms in chastity are fairly rare at those events and venues in my experience. I did see at least one guy standing around in chastity at Club 541 when I was in Palm Springs a month ago, but he wasn't participating the the sexual melee that was happening at least when I noticed him. I'm still seeing a few of them at bathhouses and events here in Portland, but nothing like a couple of years ago when they were all the rage. They draw a lot of attention, but my observation was that the attention wasn't coming from tops or versatile men, which if they really are trying to get fucked it is probably counter productive.

I can't comment on whether other total bottoms will want you sucking their dicks, but there are definitely men there that are not hard and participating enthusiastically.

@blackrobe it definitely depends on the orgy/venue. I know of at least one venue that host orgies in LA that has it posted at the entrance to their darkroom that it is expected and you are agreeing to it by entering, which I know has no legal standing. I've also been to a number of venues and orgies outside the PNW where it isn't posted, but they pretty much function that way any way. It has been my observation right or wrong, that the lack of promiscuous orgy sex in the PNW makes guys do some strange things in desperation, as well as routinely seeing guys that never ever fuck or get fucked doing things that would be interpreted as consent in some venues outside the PNW and would get them practically "raped" if they didn't tell the other parties no. It's also easier to tell someone no without making a huge scene that kills everyone's boner in those places. I'll even admit it caught me completely off guard the 1st time I encountered it, I had gone to the Mardi Gras blackout party at Midtowne Spa in Denver, and entered their orgy room which was a writhing mass of guys fucking and had 4 guys impale themselves on my hard cock before I could get out of there. It was in 2000 and I wasn't a barebacker at the time, but it only took me 10 or 15 minutes to compose myself and go back in. I didn't personally make any real effort to stop them, I was stunned but definitely enjoyed myself. My only regret is that I didn't take advantage of it and back up on a few dicks since I wasn't a barebacker yet. I later learned that it was a common occurrence at Midtowne anytime they had a large crowd, not just blackouts and parties. Really the only difference in Midtowne and the Denver Swim Club that I was already very familiar with, was DSC wasn't completely dark which gave me time to react and my usually reaction was making them wait until I could put a condom on. However thinking back, I did let a guy impale himself bareback on me in the hallway in front of a gloryhole booth at DSC within 10 minutes of setting foot in a bathhouse the 1st time ever. I fucked him several more times with a condom before relenting and breeding him before I went home that 1st night, and quite a few times before moving to Portland in 2007. PNW bathhouses are a completely different world from my first bathhouse experiences, and may well be for the guys acting out of either stupidity or desperation in Seattle. I often wonder how PNW guys react when they see that kind of orgy happening in another geographic region of the country. Traveling, I almost always see guys that I've seen frequently at Portland bathhouse but have never seen them fuck or get fucked by anyone, when I go to Palm Springs or LA, and occasionally in Denver and wonder how they cope with the situation. Do they learn quickly to stay out of the group play areas or do they just leave? I'm usually busy having fun and haven't noted whether they are staying for any length of time. The venue that has the sign in LA, is my favorite spot in Southern California but they only host orgies on Thursday evenings and Sunday afternoons and aren't exactly advertised to the public so I've never run into a fellow Portlander there, but I do almost always see one or two at Club 541 in Palm Springs or Slammer in LA which are my second and third favorite spots and it does frequently happen in the darkrooms of both those establishments as well. As far as being raped, while I've frequently had guys impale themselves on my dick giving me a limited time to react, but have never had a guy try to force a dick up my ass in any venue where I didn't have plenty of time to react, so it may be more of a issue with bottoms than tops.

You are entitled to tell them "no I don't top" and expect them to respect it, but when you make a loud scene out of it, it kills all the boners not just your own, and pretty much ends the orgy right then and there because everyone feels like they are walking on eggshells afterward. Also keep in mind that some of us do love being at an orgy where guys feel free to back up on any available hard dick and know we can do the same without it becoming an orgy killing scene. I don't have a solution, but ironically I think the bad behavior is a bigger problem in places where there isn't a lot of casual fucking at orgies and fuck venues. Maybe it isn't a choice, but there is correlation.

A couple of quick thoughts, around 16:40 there was a discussion about sexual positions. Which was something other than the handkerchief code, which was mostly before my time, wasn't something we had until the proliferation of the hookup apps. I know the handkerchief code had ways of signalling a multitude of positions and interests, but the lists of positions and interests on the has exploded over the last 5 years, and has gotten specific to the point that it seems to be doing more to keep guys from hooking up than facilitating it. I've thought in the past that at least signaling positions helps slightly with real world cruising here in nofuckland, but and now questioning whether it really does. Case in point, last night was backout/glow bracelet night at Steam, I was in line to get my green bracelet that indicates verse, when a guy just coming into the club held up the line for close to 10 minutes because he didn't want to commit to any of the available positions, top, verse, bottom, oral only or other. After a long ridiculous conversation with the bathhouse employee he finally chose verse, and to his credit was getting fucked 10 minutes later, and I saw him fucking a guy in the sling later, but it made me wonder why it was that difficult for someone here to commit to indicating they are verse when they really are. There also seems to be a lot of confusion about what the positions really mean, I see it frequently here in nofuckland, where a guy chooses fucking position and then puts something in the text about being toys, hands or something else that isn't a dick only, which seems to be a complete misunderstanding of what the position means. I also frequently read profiles when I'm traveling where guys put something about no sides, and then feel the need to further explain that side activities are everything except fucking with a cock, which leads me to believe it is at least somewhat of a problem everywhere. The unsolicited nudes issue, is something I had never really thought about. My hookup profiles all have nudes, but do not have face pics, I don't send unsolicited nudes but do frequently receive them, and am extremely reluctant to send a face pic until I'm almost sure we are actually going to fuck. That doesn't really translate well to pre app cruising, where flashing your dick meant you felt safe and definitely wanted to hookup. I do like the Places feature on Sniffies, especially when I travel to find places to go on the hunt for a hookup in real life. It allows you to see how many are there, who is there now, how many have been there recently, allows for wall postings to figure out what guys look for at that cruising spot and check out the profiles of guys currently there or who posted on the wall to find out whether guys actually go there to find fucks or whatever the hell guys who don't fuck or suck do when they "hookup".

That does sound interesting. I may check out the researchers website when I have some time.

I'm sure I've previously answered, but a little spit and precum for the initial entry, then the ass usually takes over and starts producing its own natural lube, quite often in copious quantities.

I think it is more everyone is looking for a niche fantasy. Online porn creators have made a scene of just about anything that can be imagined, but now guys are looking for that act no matter how small of a group is into it, and will keep looking for it online instead of going cruising for an actual dick, mouth or ass. When our type of cruising was the norm, everyone there knew they were expected to at least let another guy suck their dick, most wanted to suck a dick, and a significant number was hoping to fuck or get fucked. Now guys are looking for their own very specific "sex" act, many of which don't involve any kind of penetration or even touching a dick. It's more like gay romantic asexuality.

@muscmtl @hntnhole despite the unfolding AIDS crisis, the 1980's were a great time to be a horny young guy! It's hard for old guys, that lived through it to understand why guys in most places today don't seem to be taking full advantage of the freedom PREP should be giving us.