politics Conservatism

[MDK]

Is it really that contradicting to be gay/bi and be a conservative or right/far right? I've had arguments/debates with people for hours and when I said I'm bi they simply couldn't believe or couldn't understand how it is possible.

It would be interesting to see how others here view this topic, seeing how I've met others who are like me on the matter.

[Guest]

It depends on what type of conservative you consider yourself to be. Someone who claims to be a social conservative would have a major conflict but I consider myself a "Paul Ryan" Republican primarily concerned with economic issues. While I support Republicans for state offices and congress I will not support Donald Trump because I don't feel he is qualified for the presidency. I did vote for Romney though.

[MDK]

I meant traditional conservatism, basically early to mid 20th century.

[minthulf]

It isn't quite contradictory but it does skirt the line for a few reasons. The big one being is that conservatism seeks to, well, conserve the status quo, hence the name. 

As a non-heterosexual (or non-majority individual in general) one's best interests lie with disrupting the current state of affairs. 

Add to that the fact that the right wing has historically worked ardently against LGBTQ issues (and keeps working against them: either seeking curtailment or removal of equal rights)... well it makes it ideologically tricky. 

Now on the economic side of things: it is far less contradictory, at least in theory. Because of the historical marginalization of LGBTQ individuals, we are (statistically speaking) more likely to be less well off than our peers (note that (in the USA at least) sexuality is not a universally protected class and thus a reason to be fired). 

Lastly these effects are magnified if the individual is Trans, Non-Binary, Gender queer, or essentially "non cis-gendered homosexual". To go for conservatism has a feel or "I got mine so what do I care" in regards to Rights and Equality... which is made worse since a lot of the frontliners for "Gay" rights have been other members of the letter rainbow. 

But at the same time: beliving that a free market is ideal and helpful to society is a valid worldview... as long as one doesn't ignore that groups that benefited (for free) from others' work ought pay for that labor... and that majorities can be assholes so perhaps it'd be best not to trust them all that entirely with one's rights.

So tldr: no it isn't necessarily contradictory, but it can come off as a bit self-centered and possibly working against one's self interest. 

I hope this helps.

[barebackfuckhole]

I am totally politically conservative and vote Republican for a number of reasons but most importantly conservatives are for fewer regulations and less control on daily life. I don't feel that someone needs to be forced to make a wedding cake for gay couple if they don't want to. Heck if I ever get married I want the baker person who makes my cake to truly want to do it for me and hopeful do a good job. I do not want the government to force someone to have to make me a cake and then I have to worry if they spit in it or worse.  I am also against legalizing gay marriage too. Gays were in the wrong side of that argument. Why now should only gays and one man and one woman be the only two groups to be allowed to get married? Before 1880s marriage was not a legal undertaking and government was not involved. Let's go back to that and build upon that without government regulation or restrictions. 

[Brain&Brawn]

On 9/1/2017 at 1:57 AM, barebackfuckhole said:

I don't feel that someone needs to be forced to make a wedding cake for gay couple if they don't want to. 

How about if someone doesn't want to provide health care to Gays if they don't want too? Or provide service to public utilities? How about selling groceries, gas, other essentials "if they don't want too?" 

It's not about cake. It never has been.   

[Brain&Brawn]

On 9/1/2017 at 1:57 AM, barebackfuckhole said:

...less control on daily life. 

Like censorship, support for upholding anti-sodomy laws, catering to evangelical zoning restrictions, faith based initiatives, etc.?  

[shortstackhole]

On 5/12/2019 at 10:05 AM, Brain&Brawn said:

How about if someone doesn't want to provide health care to Gays if they don't want too? Or provide service to public utilities? How about selling groceries, gas, other essentials "if they don't want too?" 

It's not about cake. It never has been.   

ok but consider this: you dont have to buy from them. thats it. you do not have to financially support any institution you disagree with. my dad disagrees with the way progressive insurance donates to leftist politicians so he doesnt buy from progressive insurance. some people disagree with chickfilas stance on marriage so people dont buy their juicy delicious chicken sandwiches.

[Brain&Brawn]

10 minutes ago, putitinmecoach said:

ok but consider this: you dont have to buy from them. thats it. you do not have to financially support any institution you disagree with. my dad disagrees with the way progressive insurance donates to leftist politicians so he doesnt buy from progressive insurance. some people disagree with chickfilas stance on marriage so people dont buy their juicy delicious chicken sandwiches.

Good job dodging the issue and trivializing the point. You do have to buy from the only utility company that services your area. Or the only grocery store and gas station in rural areas. Or the only hospital for a couple hundred miles. And if all the insurance adopt a no service stance? Like I said (and you ignored) it is not about cake or one of those greasy choking sandwiches, but you know that.     

[shortstackhole]

If you own a business, you get to choose how you run it and face whatever consequences you get from running it however you want. Discriminate against some minority? There's a protest against your actions and then you lose business (tho in chickfilas case the counter-protest was larger than the protest so that backfired). It's not about a cake, its about slavery. That's what the argument boils down to is slavery. If I do not serve some group of people and the government comes and forces me to serve that group lest I be punished, that is slavery.

These are 'what-if' scenarios. The only hospital in a thousand miles will not turn away a dying man. The only utility company in an area will not turn away business because that's bad monopoly business. Every insurance company will not take a 'no service stance' because thats bad business. One bakery saying 'no I will not conform my morals and support gay marriage, please spend your money elsewhere' is bad business. It's okay to for a company here and there to not support gay marriage when the overwhelming majority do. That's their beliefs.

This is anecdotal but there are 10 power companies in my area. There are 7 tv/internet companies that service my area. There are 15 medical centers in my area but only 2 trauma centers. I have the choice to spend my money with whoever.

[Brain&Brawn]

22 hours ago, putitinmecoach said:

If you own a business, you get to choose how you run it and face whatever consequences you get from running it however you want. Discriminate against some minority? There's a protest against your actions and then you lose business (tho in chickfilas case the counter-protest was larger than the protest so that backfired). It's not about a cake, its about slavery. That's what the argument boils down to is slavery. If I do not serve some group of people and the government comes and forces me to serve that group lest I be punished, that is slavery.

These are 'what-if' scenarios. The only hospital in a thousand miles will not turn away a dying man. The only utility company in an area will not turn away business because that's bad monopoly business. Every insurance company will not take a 'no service stance' because thats bad business. One bakery saying 'no I will not conform my morals and support gay marriage, please spend your money elsewhere' is bad business. It's okay to for a company here and there to not support gay marriage when the overwhelming majority do. That's their beliefs.

This is anecdotal but there are 10 power companies in my area. There are 7 tv/internet companies that service my area. There are 15 medical centers in my area but only 2 trauma centers. I have the choice to spend my money with whoever.

LMAO! "Slavery" -- I've seen plenty of people paint themselves as victims but damn! That's a new one! I'm sorry you feel so powerless, vulnerable, and at risk of being enslaved. 

Businesses do not assume no-service stances in the present day because it is illegal to discriminate. Plain and simple. Doing so is a violation of interstate commerce. Did they not teach you about that in school; e.g. freedom rides during the civil right movement? BTW people made arguments similar to yours then as well; trivializing lunch-counter  sit-in's as being just about hamburgers. 

Your proud declaration of living in a liberal bubble that provides opportunities to spend money in several places is not "anecdotal." It is irrelevant. 

It was not about a hamburger in the 1960s. It is not about cake, or chokey greasy chicken sandwiches, in the present.     

Edited June 21, 2019 by Brain&Brawn

[Guest]

Only because as a gay person I belong to a minority it does not mean by far that I must automatically be in favor of leftist ideology. I came to see life for what it truly is rather than what philanthropists wished it would be. This world mostly and therefore sadly responds only to the closed fist, not the open hand. 

[woodrow82]

On 6/20/2019 at 1:37 AM, putitinmecoach said:

This is anecdotal but there are 10 power companies in my area. There are 7 tv/internet companies that service my area. There are 15 medical centers in my area but only 2 trauma centers. I have the choice to spend my money with whoever.

This is exactly why you don't get it. In the area I grew up in, there is still only one power company, 1 TV/Inernet company (because of Beavis & Butthead, we lost all music television but CMT) 1 medical center (family practice doctor), and the nearest hospital was 2 towns over, and yes, only one Bakery the next town over.  The anti-gay (anti anything different really) feeling was palpable in everything.  Basically if they don't feel like providing services to gays/minorities, then you have to just live without that service (which is a pain when there is also only one restaurant/diner).  These issues are important BECAUSE of small town America.

[horny4holes]

Yes, as the basis of conservatism is protecting the heterosexual family role. Most of them still view LGBT people (especially trans today) as degenerates, perverts etc. They hate that gay marriage is legal, and you can be assured that if the death penalty was more prominent, they would want LGBT people to be sentenced.

Other than that, the LGBT community should know as much as any how it feels to be oppressed. But that is made much more difficult when you are being targeted in society by racists, as you can cover up your sexuality, but you can't change your race.

There are therefore only two reasons I can think of as to why LGBT people are conservatives: they are carrying on with adopting the same traditions that they have been raised with throughout their childhood and adolescence, and/or they have been raised in an unloving environment and have a lot of self-hate. If you were comfortable with yourself as gay/trans/bi, then you wouldn't be conservative in my view.

[BlackDude]

On 8/4/2019 at 4:49 AM, horny4holes said:

Yes, as the basis of conservatism is protecting the heterosexual family role. Most of them still view LGBT people (especially trans today) as degenerates, perverts etc. They hate that gay marriage is legal, and you can be assured that if the death penalty was more prominent, they would want LGBT people to be sentenced.

Other than that, the LGBT community should know as much as any how it feels to be oppressed. But that is made much more difficult when you are being targeted in society by racists, as you can cover up your sexuality, but you can't change your race.

There are therefore only two reasons I can think of as to why LGBT people are conservatives: they are carrying on with adopting the same traditions that they have been raised with throughout their childhood and adolescence, and/or they have been raised in an unloving environment and have a lot of self-hate. If you were comfortable with yourself as gay/trans/bi, then you wouldn't be conservative in my view.

As I black persons, I also see a third angle. It that a lot of gay men don’t give a damn about the progress of others as long as they get theirs. I’ve seen many instances of guys marching in pride parades, only to go back to the bars later on loving to their “White only” profile. Or they are all in in civil rights....except when it involves the freedoms of others, they become conservative. Just my opinion.