ErosWired

“Munt”. I would like to unsee that. For me, “starfish” would alter the mood. I would first be unable to stifle a snort, then collapse into laughter. Not that I’ll ever hear it - mine hasn’t looked like a starfish for quite a while, and never will again.

I keep thinking about the phrase “most degrading” and how one decides what fits that bill. It’s a very subjective measure obviously, both from the perspective of how many different acts of degradation a person has endured, but also from the perspective on what he, or the Top, considers degrading in the first place. A straight Top, for instance, may consider any act of male-on-male penetration degrading, because in his mind, no self-respecting dude would ever allow that. He might consider taking a load even more deeply degrading because the dude actually ended up with the dude’s spunk in him In his mind, that un-mans a guy. Cunts him. Makes him a bitch. You can’t undo that. The bottom he fucks may not have a lot of experience, may have done nothing but straight-up vanilla sex. But given that straight Top’s perspective, it would be entirely valid for the bottom to answer the OP’s question with “He fucked me.” And feel just as degraded as a bottom more used to abuse who reported being used as a urinal, simply because the Top believed he was degrading him.

The toughness you are describing is a kind of strength, true. Certainly they have the physical endurance to withstand the pain and physical trauma to their bodies from the brutality of the men who use and abuse them. But the strength you see as they openly announce their “faggotry” in their attire and mannerisms in such a way as to attract attention to themselves is all too often a façade concealing a deeply troubled person. That person has often spent a life with his self-esteem under constant assault since childhood because of who he is, and has had great difficulty finding healthy and meaningful loving relationships because the sexual environment for men like him is predisposed to using and devaluing such men. The toughness is often a desperate defense line against fear, loneliness, self-doubt and despair - a defiant scream against the darkness. Not all such men are so, and some who are so do not realize it. But do not assume the strength you perceive always goes as deep as you can fuck.

I realize the OP’s intent in starting this thread was probably just to see how many men he could get to make a simple declaration of depravity, not to stimulate an introspection about language and the social structure of the gay subculture. Sorry not sorry. One of my earlier posts in the thread talked about the problem of ‘reclaiming’ the term actually reinforcing its negative aspects, and the fact that instead of it being a derogatory being used by straights on gays it’s now being used by some gays on gays. But looking more closely at the OP’s checklist, and after spending a long time following the content on this forum, it strikes me that there’s a gradual refinement of the meaning of faggot within the gay community more and more to mean not any gay male, but specifically a gay male who is usually submissive, indiscrimate about sexual partners, has few sexual boundaries or limits, and especially, is the one penetrated. Faggot, then, is becoming a label for what are considered second-class men in the homosexual hierarchy. Some men openly couple faggot with modifiers like trashy and worthless, and equate them with whores. To at least a segment of the gay population, to be a faggot is to be a degraded person of lesser worth, subject to use and abuse. That some self-identifying faggots fetishize and encourage such abuse only perpetuates the issue. I’m guilty of it too, every time I obey a Top when he orders me to tell him “I’m a faggot whore” because it pleases him to degrade me. It’s perfidious, because the act of saying it plants a seed in my mind that suggests that it’s true the way he means it. I said before that I define myself, but now I realize that perhaps I haven’t been as successful at that as I thought. I’ve said aloud to Tops that I’m a faggot so many times now that, yes, as much as I don’t want to admit it, I’m a faggot in the way @BoyStrangler thinks of faggots. And worse, the proof is that I would let him or any man like him use me as such without hesitation. Worst, it does not bother me at all if other men place me at the very bottom of their sexual pecking order, or view me as nothing but a disposable sexual object, because that is how I see myself. A that, from the first time a boy at school used the word to hurt me to the moment the Top spat it at me while he face-fucked me this weekend, is the legacy of faggot.

Do you ever worry about how they’re going to get the cum stains out of those nice tailored suits? I’m betting not.

I would note that the observation I’m making about bathhouses does not encompass behavior in which bathhouse owners or staff actively offer to compensate a client for performing sex acts with other clients on the premises, because I would think this is a relatively uncommon phenomenon, but to the extent that it happens, I think it simply underscores the point.

A hotel is not in the same situation as a bathhouse. A hotel’s principal offering is lodging. Hotels (by and large) do not actively promote sexual encounters on their premises. They may turn a blind eye to them, or be indifferent to them, but you don’t find a bowl of condoms on the bathroom counter. Yes, if you host in your hotel room you are paying the hotel for access to the premises for purposes of sex. But that is not, and may be contrary to, the hotelier’s intent. At a bathhouse, it is not against the owner’s intent - he knows exactly what you want to use the place for. No, a man who comes to your room isn’t paying anybody anything, in terms of the financial exchanges in consideration. In a bathhouse, a man who fucks you in your room has also paid to get in; at the hotel, he just walks in through your door free of charge. (Frankly, this is why I’ve never understood why more men don’t take advantage of hotel cumdumps - a guaranteed fuck you don’t have to hunt for, totally free - you can’t beat that.) You may consider that the guy who fucks you in your hotel room is “paying” you by fucking you, but that doesn’t count. It doesn’t come out of his wallet

The point, however, is that while the bathhouse owner may not guarantee that the client will experience a sex act, it’s pretty well understood, and it is the intent of the client, that the payment is for access to the opportunity for sex on the premises. This may not be limited to actual physical contact; a voyeur who wants to watch men performing sexual acts may pay his entry to get a front-row seat. The owner of a bordello may reliably provide a client with a sex worker, but can’t guarantee he’ll have an orgasm.

Actually, I have given thought to how this kind on online behavior can be curtailed, but can’t think of any really practical way in an environment where everything is done behind an alias. There is no way to hold anyone accountable for anything. An offender can block the person they harmed and never have to give him another thought. You can’t call out someone or publicly shame them, because a simple change of username disassociates them from any blame. There’s no way to set up a system to report bad behavior like this, because there’s no way to verify something like a ghosting, plus, the offender could just issue a false counterclaim, and any such system would quickly be abused by people with malicious or petty motives to make trouble for others. It’s the simple impunity of it that makes the problem so intractable, and so likely to get worse.

Well that’s got to be a can of worms. Do you mean the offer discounts to certain select individuals, or to anyone who claims to be a Top, and what if one of those Tops happens go be a vers Top and gets into some bottomy action on the premises? But if they’re giving discounts to specific chosen individuals to encourage them to come breed the other clients, that just seems to underscore the premise, I think.

Dude. Did you even read the post? What you just wrote has zero to do with the content. No one is talking about paying anyone for sex, or solicitation/prostitution. The post is a philosophical consideration of the nature of a bathhouse’s business model in relation to its clients, nothing more. And, yes, I basically did already point out that brothels employ sex workers, in the fourth full paragraph, so the “really snitty” resort to Webster was simply redundant.

And now let me ice this fucking cake and put a cherry on top. So while I’m ass up at the bathhouse this 27-year-old Top hits me up on Grindr, but says he can’t come to the bathhouse because he’s DL, and asks if I can come to his place. I explain why I can’t, but suggest I could stop by at midnight if he wants at the start of my 3-hour drive home. He says yes, please, he will still be up. I ask for the address, he provides one. This is at 9:30. The last couple of hours at CumUnion are pretty dead because - drum roll - it snowed half an inch in Indy yesterday, first ‘icing’ of the year. Temps below freezing. So I decide that rather than make the dude wait any longer for his fuck than necessary, I up stakes at the bathhouse at 11:30, go out and remove the snow from my car, drive out of my way to his place, and message him on Grindr to say I’ve arrived, midnight on the dot. Crickets. Cold crickets, because it’s freezing. The address is an apartment block. He’s not online. I wait 15 minutes. He ghosts me in his own fucking parking lot. I did manage to get a message sent to give him directions straight to hell; I like to think he saw it, because by the time I got home he had blocked me.

In an episode of the British sci-fi program Doctor Who, the Cyber Leader says, “Promises made to humans have no validity.” After having, of course, made one. The cybermen consider human beings inferior beings fit only as material to serve their own needs. I have decided that there is an unwritten understanding among users of internet apps that Promises Made To Cumdumps Have No Validity. The problem of men telling s cumdump they’re going to do one thing and then doing the opposite, something else, or nothing at all, is becoming epidemic. Now, clearly, this isn’t limited to cumdumps - happens all over the net because electronic people aren’t really people, right? The thing about cumdumps, though, is that they do it to your face. Two different Tops tonight fucked me, then said they were coming back to finish and drop the load. Never saw them. Why is this a problem? Because I waited in the room so they didn’t miss their chance. Sure, there are lots of reasons they may not have been able to in spite of intentions, but the point is, no one thinks to inform the cumdump, or even remember anything the thing was said to the cumpdump, or yet even that the cumdump whose body they just used for their base pleasure even exists. Because a cumdump is not considered s person in the same way as others. Oh, and they routinely steal our poppers. A bottle stolen at every one of the last three hostings. There’s no goddamn excuse for it. Food for thought.

Your post, and poll, suggest that you are approaching the whole question with absolutist thinking, i.e., that you have to occupy one absolute state at a time, exclusive of the others - either you must be s complete Top and work toward getting there, or total bottom and strive to reach that, or occupy a vers position that forces you to always flip. The telltale sign of this is the reference in third poll option to a “genuine cumdump”. (As if there were such a thing.) There are total bottoms and Total Tops. They don’t have to work toward being those things or struggle to remain them, because they are them. It doesn’t occur to them to do the other thing. I am a total bottom. It never, ever, enters my mind to Top someone. It’s an alien thought process. I imagine Total Tops simply never entertain the thought of taking a cock up. the ass; it would be absurd to them. A vers person, however, has latitude to imagine different ways of being. A vers person may decide to knock off bottoming for a year, becoming a functional Total. Top, or vice-versa, while retaining the option tho change his mind tomorrow. There’s no need to work toward it; you just decide to do it. If you decide to do something else tomorrow, that’s a discussion to have with your willpower, and where the question of whether to avoid Topping becomes relevant, But in terms of working toward becoming an absolute state, you simply need to decide to do that, and then do it.

Bear with me. Bathhouse. In the name, place you go to bathe. Some of them have pools of one sort or another, but not the kind you soap up in. All usually have showers. But sre you going to shell out money to go do something you can do at home for free? No. I suppose there could still be urban situations in which having a facility for bathing and grooming close to the place of business would be an advantage, but in many bathhouses there aren’t even any counters in the bathrooms. Then there’s the spa/health club angle. Now, if there were nothing in the building but the steam room, sauna, exercise equipment (which I have yet to see one single person use), would you go to it? You might, but it would be called s gym. So if we don’t really go to bathe, and we only ostensibly go for health, why do all these men actually go to bathhouses? Because they’re sex venues. Obviously. And they’re operated as a business. With owners who reap the profit from the basic resource being provided to their clients, which is, again, only tokenly bathing and health amenities, so it must be a place to have sex. Okay, a person who owns an brothel with no sex workers in it will make no money at all. In order to serve the clients, the resource must be the sex workers themselves. In the case of a bathhouse, the sex is provided by the clients to each other for free…or is it? Each would not have access to the other if they both did not pay the owner for the access, which amounts, by transference, to paying the owner for the services of the person providing the sex - who ends up being the bathhouse owner’s actual resource. But the clients ate not employees. So essentially, the bathhouse owner makes a profit running a community brothel of unpaid sex workers. — Obviously, the above is an exercise in pure sophistry, but I think there must be a kernel of truth in there somewhere. I happen to know that two Tops coming to CumUnion tonight ate coming specifically because they want to fuck my ass. If I weren’t here whoring my body to Tops for free, that’s money the bathhouse wouldn’t be getting. I mean, I get called a whore enough as it is, I might as well claim it…

I just had a very curious experience. It’s been s few years now since my training stopped, and since the last time I was truly dropped into subspace by a Dominant. In any kind of behavioral or suggestibility conditioning, you expect the effect to gradually fade if not periodically refreshed, and I would have expected the same in this case. But a couple of hours ago in the steam room, a Dominant simply touched me, drew my arms to my sides and told me to leave them there, and proceeded, over a series of four encounters, to reduce me to full submission in subspace, get me to placidly let him gnaw my (excruciatingly sensitive) nipples at every encounter, thump my balls, fully face-fuck me three times, and finally token-fuck my cunt before leaving. The whole timr he was prompting me to say, Yes Sir, Thank You Sir (for the pain), Yes I want your cock in my mouth Sir, Yes please fuck my cunt Sir, Yes Sir I’m a faggot slut Sir - I popped it all out just like years ago. So it occurs to me that all the things I learned to believe about myself sexually through degradation haven’t begun to fade…because they’re true. The degradation just took lines already there and etched them deeper. So mote degradation can only make those definitions of me sharper.

I see three potential reasons the guy acted as he did: 1) He wasn’t actually on PrEP and would have been caught in his lie; 2) Had s concept of honor that would take unbrage at someone questioning his word one he has give it; or 3) He decided he just discovered that you were a neurotic worrier and notpicker, that he had no time for any extra drama, and that he had just dodged a bullet. You may never know. I echo the advice above saying get on PrEP yourself snd render the matter moot. Incidentally, a request for proof inherently implies a level of doubt, snd when applied to something s person has said, therefore implicates suspected falsehood. In other words, if someone tells you something and you ask them for proof, it’s hard not to be seen as either disbelieving them or calling them a liar.

If degradation is reducing something’s value, I’m not entirely sure one could consider what you’re doing degradation. After all, I suspect you’re saving his marriage, and considering what you’re going through to do it, it’s rather noble. But the other question that pops to my mind is that the implication of degradation, akin to humiliation, is a thing that would cause mental or emotional distress to the recipient. What I hear from you is glee. So if you like it, are you really being degraded - or are the two of you just having a hell of a good time being piggy? I don’t have an answer to the question, I just ponder it. In my own examples that I cite above, my reaction to the Tops’ degradation of me is mixed. On the one hand, a certain level of degradation is already baked in - I’m not only a cumdump, I’ve been trained that the whole point of my sexual body is to be a pleasure organ and breeding receptacle for other men’ penises, and to accept them without discrimination. To that extent, there’s not much degrading or devolving left to do. I know what I am and I’m not ashamed of it. On the second hand, I do feel a powerful sense of being diminished and conquered when a aggresive masculine figure physically dominates me, so from that perspective I definitely feel degraded. Yet on the third hand (apparently I have three hands) the combination of the above two strongly excites me sexually, to the point that I crave it, and fucks that don’t include at least some element of it are bland and uninteresting. So given the importance to the degradation to me, I don’t know if it’s truly degrading to me. Doms have done some fucking kinky shit to me, and in recent times I’ve found myself wondering what I would have to do next - how much further down the rabbit hole I would have to go - to find enough stimulus. I keep coming to the conclusions that involve deeper and deeper degradation and devolvement. I wonder if the hole has a bottom.

I assume by this that you are saying your viral load of over 5 million is the highest recorded for a living patient? A 2015 paper titled Extremely high HIV-1 viral load in a patient with undiagnosed clinical indicator disease for HIV infection reports the following: HIV viral load 1 058 239 000 copies/mm3(log 9.02). The patient under study had an HIV-1 viral load of over one billion. [think before following links] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4680573/

This. I’m ass-up in Indianapolis on an early Saturday morning and I’ve already gotten it three times in the last hour. - strike that - four times. 🤨

Though you may disagree, it is nonetheless so. But you needn’t, because what your doctor said isn’t inconsistent with what I was saying. Basically, what he was saying is that if a promiscuous person keeps getting knocked up, sooner or later he’s going to run across one of the strains out there that has developed resistance to the available treatments. There are, for example, ‘super-strains’ of gono that are highly resistant to the standard treatments. It’s not that your doctor is saying that you’ll run out of options because you’ve damaged your body’s ability to resist the infection (your body couldn’t fight it off in the first place), it’s that you’ll run out of options because you’ll finally pick up a bug for which there aren’t any options left. In the case of HIV, you’re dealing with a virus that mutates relatively quickly by comparison to the bacteria, so you have to contend with the danger of a resistant strain originating within you that you could acquire without being promiscuous, and one you could be superinfected with if you are promiscuous. In the former instance, strict meds compliance is key to reducing the likelihood by sharply curtailing the ability of the virus to replicate, snd therefore reduces its opportunities to mutate.

That’s not how it works. The host doesn’t become resistant to the medication, it’s the disease strain that’s resistant, and the bug that’s resistant is already resistant before it enters the host. Getting infected multiple times means you have more chances to draw the short straw and pick up a resistant strain, but it doesn’t change your body in some way that makes medicine ineffective. Going untreated and walking around like a human petri dish does, however, allow the colonies of bacteria or viruses to multiply at will, creating an environment for the generation of mutation strains that may have resistant qualities. This is especially so in people who start treatment but are inconsistent with it or do not complete it, allowing the pathogens that survive exposure to the medication to reproduce. That means the bugs better equipped to shake off the meds pass on those qualities. That’s why it’s particularly important for people on ART to be meds-compliant.

You speak of Lorna Doones as if they were a thing of the past, and not a common stock item in most groceries. They are manufactured by Mondelez. Strictly speaking, however, you’re probably right, because the Lorna Doones you remember fondly were a shortbread cookie made with butter. Last year, Mondelez was hit with a class action suit for misrepresenting their Lorna Doones as shortbread - they no longer contain butter, and include baking soda, which shortbread does not. This might seem a trivial matter to some, but I loves me some shortbread and the butter makes all the difference. So you were eating cookies one of whose main ingredients was butter with a big pat of butter each…it’s a miracle you’re still with us.

Personally, I think of my hole as a cunt, because when I’m talking about it in terms of its sexual function, I want to uncouple it from its other context related to asshole. I tend not to use pussy because I’m not a woman and don’t have female genitalia. Hole just seems to lack any kind of sexual quality. Sometimes I use ass in a general way, but if I want to talk about the spot as a sexual orifice I’ll default to cunt. I can honestly say I’ve never had a Top refer to it as a bussy. I’m glad, because I just can’t take that seriously. To me, that term just says insecurity, a man too hung up on issues about being afraid to seem too female so he has to make a point of it. Quite a lot of Tops, however, call mine a pussy. More than any other thing combined, I’d say. If they do, I’ll use it for consistency…the customer is always right, after all.

You say it’s degrading…why do you feel degraded by it? Some bottoms here would just call that a good fuck, so obviously experiences are subjective. You say he seems mesmerized by it - do you think he’s actively trying to degrade you and make you feel degraded, or do you simply feel degraded by what he does even though he’s just fascinated by using you that way?