UPDATE: College Boy with Internal Tension

[FunCollegeTwink]

Several months ago, I posted a thread in the General Discussion section in which I shared some of the internal tension that I had been experiencing.  On the one hand, I had (and still do have) a strong desire to go to graduate school and pursue academics.  On the other hand, I am extremely slutty, and the riskier the sex, the more that I enjoyed it.  There were some very thoughtful responses, contributions, and input from many of you, and as a consequence I decided to begin PrEP.  This post is an update...

I started taking PrEP, and all was going well for the first month or two.  I was having sex as usual and getting bred as much as I could.  The more that time went by though, the more dissatisfied with the sex I became.  The sex just didn't seem to excite me in the same way that it had used to (even though I was more or less having the same amount of sex as I had been before).  It just seems as though there is something about very risky sex that energizes me in a way that I can't really explain (and maybe don't really understand either).  I had been feeling that way for the past several months, thinking that the feeling may just go away - but it didn't. 

Basically, I've decided to stop taking my PrEP now (in reality I stopped taking it a few days ago).  The sex that I had since stopping was fantastic, and I just feel amazing after.  I know that what I am doing is extremely risky, but it is beginning to look like I need that sort of risk to feel fulfilled and satisfied.  While it will probably sound silly, I do a substantial amount of demanding work which can be quite stressful; the risky sex that I have been engaged in has always been a source of release for all that tension and stress, and I was not able to find an outlet for it while on PrEP.  Essentially, I think part of the secret to my success academically has actually been my risky, slutty sex life - and I think I need to embrace it.  So, again, I've stopped taking my PrEP now and honestly I have to admit I'm a lot happier because of it.

I guess, part of me still wants to know what you all think though: am I being ridiculous, or selfish?  Can any of you think of any alternative explanations, or maybe other outlets?  I'd honestly appreciate your input again, as I really appreciated it earlier when I was struggling with all this.

[pigpozdad]

Lotta guys go on Truvada and  later abandon it.  Just ride the wave of your slut emotions --- if you get pozzzed, get on meds initially, and began Grad School.  BTW,  what is the subject you will study (Medicine would be hot,  and you certainly wouldnt be the only poz doctor out there).

[tallslenderguy]

1 hour ago, FunCollegeTwink said:

Several months ago, I posted a thread in the General Discussion section in which I shared some of the internal tension that I had been experiencing.  On the one hand, I had (and still do have) a strong desire to go to graduate school and pursue academics.  On the other hand, I am extremely slutty, and the riskier the sex, the more that I enjoyed it.  There were some very thoughtful responses, contributions, and input from many of you, and as a consequence I decided to begin PrEP.  This post is an update...

I started taking PrEP, and all was going well for the first month or two.  I was having sex as usual and getting bred as much as I could.  The more that time went by though, the more dissatisfied with the sex I became.  The sex just didn't seem to excite me in the same way that it had used to (even though I was more or less having the same amount of sex as I had been before).  It just seems as though there is something about very risky sex that energizes me in a way that I can't really explain (and maybe don't really understand either).  I had been feeling that way for the past several months, thinking that the feeling may just go away - but it didn't. 

Basically, I've decided to stop taking my PrEP now (in reality I stopped taking it a few days ago).  The sex that I had since stopping was fantastic, and I just feel amazing after.  I know that what I am doing is extremely risky, but it is beginning to look like I need that sort of risk to feel fulfilled and satisfied.  While it will probably sound silly, I do a substantial amount of demanding work which can be quite stressful; the risky sex that I have been engaged in has always been a source of release for all that tension and stress, and I was not able to find an outlet for it while on PrEP.  Essentially, I think part of the secret to my success academically has actually been my risky, slutty sex life - and I think I need to embrace it.  So, again, I've stopped taking my PrEP now and honestly I have to admit I'm a lot happier because of it.

I guess, part of me still wants to know what you all think though: am I being ridiculous, or selfish?  Can any of you think of any alternative explanations, or maybe other outlets?  I'd honestly appreciate your input again, as I really appreciated it earlier when I was struggling with all this.

I confess I do not relate to chasing at all, I get no thrill from the idea of getting a disease. I don't see it as "ridiculous" or "selfish," i just don't relate.

I do wonder though, since you trace the reason for your desire to risky sex, what happens when/if you become poz and it's no longer risky behavior? 

[FunCollegeTwink]

1 minute ago, tallslenderguy said:

I confess I do not relate to chasing at all, I get no thrill from the idea of getting a disease. I don't see it as "ridiculous" or "selfish," i just don't relate.

I do wonder though, since you trace the reason for your desire to risky sex, what happens when/if you become poz and it's no longer risky behavior? 

That's a really good question tallslenderguy, and I have to admit I don't know if I can answer it.  Part of me thinks it won't be a problem though.  I think that deep down I really am a chaser and just had a difficult time admitting it... I thought that I was turned on by "risky" sex, but I'm becoming more convinced that I was probably turned on by the idea that I could be getting pozzed from it.  If that's the case, then I probably won't have any problem if I became poz, because I'd still get turned on by having sex with other poz guys.  Does that make sense?

[tallslenderguy]

8 minutes ago, FunCollegeTwink said:

That's a really good question tallslenderguy, and I have to admit I don't know if I can answer it.  Part of me thinks it won't be a problem though.  I think that deep down I really am a chaser and just had a difficult time admitting it... I thought that I was turned on by "risky" sex, but I'm becoming more convinced that I was probably turned on by the idea that I could be getting pozzed from it.  If that's the case, then I probably won't have any problem if I became poz, because I'd still get turned on by having sex with other poz guys.  Does that make sense?

Hi FunCollegeTwink,

Yeah, your explanation makes sense to me. I'm really curious to understand the emotional disposition behind chasing. While I have never had the desire to get HIV (though i am poz and fine with it), I am pretty much like a bitch in heat sexually. I use that comparison on purpose, because the drive to get bred seems that intense for me when I'm 'in heat' lol.

I have wondered if as bottoms many of us are not wired similarly, as though survival depended on getting pregnant, like a bitch? I've also wondered if the drive to get pozzed is a sort of emotional version of getting pregnant? A lot of guys refer to getting pozzed as getting "knocked up," so i know a lot of guys are making that connection.  If gays are an evolutionary variation, it doesn't seem far fetched to me that we might have drives mixed in us that are left overs from a survival drive. 

[FunCollegeTwink]

3 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

Hi FunCollegeTwink,

Yeah, your explanation makes sense to me. I'm really curious to understand the emotional disposition behind chasing. While I have never had the desire to get HIV (though i am poz and fine with it), I am pretty much like a bitch in heat sexually. I use that comparison on purpose, because the drive to get bred seems that intense for me when I'm 'in heat' lol.

I have wondered if as bottoms many of us are not wired similarly, as though survival depended on getting pregnant, like a bitch? I've also wondered if the drive to get pozzed is a sort of emotional version of getting pregnant? A lot of guys refer to getting pozzed as getting "knocked up," so i know a lot of guys are making that connection.  If gays are an evolutionary variation, it doesn't seem far fetched to me that we might have drives mixed in us that are left overs from a survival drive. 

Well, I think you really are pretty close with that... I am pretty much all bottom (I've probably topped 10 times in my life) and definitely experience something akin to a desire to get pregnant or knocked up.  Probably put more precisely though, I feel the urge to bottom for tops, and to take my top's cum as deep inside me as possible.  I never push loads out of me either, because I have this instinct not to. 

As to how this led to me having a chaser mentality, well... it's a bit odd.  I think I have actually been wanting to chase for years now - probably since I was 14 or 15.  I am literally not exaggerating about this, and I'm not trying to sexualize it either - I'm just going to say it how I experienced it at the time.  Anyway, when I was that age I took the standard "health" course that you usually take at that age.  We were going over the unit on sex, and had talked about pregnancy and we then go to the unit on STDs.  When we got to HIV, I found myself mildly aroused by it, which I don't even know if I noticed explicitly at first.  Later on, they had a guest come to talk about it.  It was a man (probably in his late 20s or early 30s), and he told the class that he had hiv, and proceeded to tell a bit about what it is, how it is spread, how it can be prevented and hopefully eradicated.  Honestly though, I couldn't really pay attention to what he was saying because I just found him profoundly attractive for some reason.  In fact, all that I could think of was having sex with him (an unprotected sex at that).  I didn't actually have sex with him, but I thought about him a lot when I got off for the next several years.  I knew very well that if I had sex with him and he bred me (assuming that he was still detectable) that I would probably get hiv as well... and on some level I think even that idea turned me on (though I don't think I had been willing to admit that until recently).

My point is that the urges that I have during sex are somewhat like getting pregnant, but more accurately that I feel the urge to "take what the top is giving to me," in a way... whatever that might be.  That's why I always keep cum deep inside of me.  And I think that on some level, getting pozzed is the most intense form of that.  In a way, his cum (or the virus in his cum) is literally spreading through my body and making it a part of me.  And though I know the consequences of this, it is still profoundly erotic to me, and I think that it probably always will be.

I don't know if I answered your question well enough, but I hope that this gives you some idea about my own chasing urges (though I suspect that it might be different for different people).

[evilqueerpig]

You're not being ridiculous or selfish!  For you, sex on PrEP was basically like sex with condoms.  In your head, you crave risky sex and anything else will not satisfy you.  Accept who you are and be true to yourself.  Toss the PrEP and fuck bareback.  Live your life on your own terms.

[6811283]

5 hours ago, FunCollegeTwink said:

I was probably turned on by the idea that I could be getting pozzed from it.  If that's the case, then I probably won't have any problem if I became poz, because I'd still get turned on by having sex with other poz guys.  Does that make sense?

Just catching up on this amazing thread and your previous one. Much food for thought -- pardon the length of my reply.

I can relate to your story, as a chaser who went on PrEP and then off it. I'm also brainy and educated and have a reputation for being cool-headed and rational. I do think the risky sex I crave is an important counterbalance to my persona (just as some sub bottoms I've met have been powerful, in-control men in their professional lives).

I'm of a generation where HIV was genuinely terrifying. The fear was in fact sometimes immobilizing: I'd have heart-racing risky sex but then live in terror for weeks until I could get the next test results. 

Like many others, my initial attraction to seeking out intentional infection was not a wish to be HIV+ as such, but a need to get that fear out of the way. Poz guys were indeed magnetically attractive to me -- in part because they were already freed of that fear. They had faced "the worst" and it wasn't so bad. Most had been infected by accident (and often it was traumatic in the short term) but it did seem to have a liberating effect sexually. Some, however, made a more deliberate decision to leave the fear behind, have the sex they wanted, and accept the probably inevitable consequence of HIV.

A few went a step further, wanting to take control of their seroconversion and to choose the man who would infect them. These guys in particular seemed especially ballsy and attractive to me. I think this cohort, which grew out of necessity in the pre-PrEP world, planted the seed (no pun intended) of today's chaser culture. The particular circumstances that created the subculture were a moment in history that is passing. It will be interesting to see what becomes of bugchasing in the new era, especially if/when a cure for HIV is developed. (I've read that when tuberculosis was incurable, around the late 19th century, there was a certain romanticizing/eroticizing of it... the subject of the opera "La Bohème," which got adapted into "Rent" in the 1990s, with the disease updated to AIDS... but I digress).

I was at the point of accepting the inevitability of seroconverting and had fantasies of choosing the time and poz top to make it happen, but as you will have seen on this board, that is easier said than done. In any case I was letting go of the fear and openly seeking out poz partners.

Then PrEP came along... and suddenly there was another option. I hesitated a bit because of the issue of taking meds with potential long-term consequences, but that is really a bullshit consideration because (a) PrEP is really very well researched and overseen (b) the current PrEP drug, Truvada, will almost certainly be superceded by other options with even fewer side effects soon enough -- no one is going to be on today's form of PrEP for years and years, and (c) once poz, you will be taking the same meds as PrEP, and more, for life, with no option to quit (unless you decide to let the disease run its course, something that really doesn't appeal to me -- it's an ugly way to die, though I recognize there are a select few for whom it is a turn-on),

Anyway, I started PrEP about 4 years ago and went on to enjoy a freer and more unbridled sex life than ever before. I did it all -- clubs, bathhouses, Cumunion, and lots of hookups, intentionally seeking out poz guys (who seem on average just better in bed than negs, by my non-scientific observation!) 

It was mostly pure joy. (I have gotten STDs with some regularity, however, and though it's the price you pay for a liberated seed life, it can be a major annoyance and expense.)

That said: on PrEP I missed the thrill of sex that had the possibility of a real consequence. I do relate to chasers who use pregnancy metaphors: infecting another man with HIV is the closest analogy we have to the chance a straight man has of impregnating a woman. The mystical element of converting another person turns me on intensely... though it's pretty twisted when you think of it -- impregnating someone creates life while converting someone, in the absence of meds...

A major event was when I reconnected with an unmedicated poz guy I had chatted with several years ago, when he had tried to sweet-talk me into letting him poz me. We had never actually met, but I was planning to be in his city in a few months.

So I made a "New Year's Resolution" to quit PrEP and did so, in early 2017. Just like for you, the thrill came back. I had some intense experiences, not least of which was finally meeting the "gifter" and taking his load -- in some sex that was very quick, brutal, and among the hottest of my life.

It was an intense few weeks of waiting but the gift didn't "take." No huge surprise really... as everyone on this board knows, there are no guarantees and the odds of any single fuck knocking you up are relatively small. Still, it was a fucking THRILL.

BUT... and there's always a but... thrills can't continue indefinitely at the same level of intensity. The outrageous becomes normal, and then you either adjust to less intensity or you have to seek out new extremes. Over the past 11 months I've had some great episodes (and will jerk off to the memories forever) but I've also continued to think about the tradeoffs.

During this year I've had four close buddies seroconvert. None of them wanted it -- in fact they were all considering PrEP in one way or another but hadn't gotten around to it. They've adjusted and it hasn't been the end of their lives, but I've seen the shit they've gone through with insurance issues, worries about changing jobs or moving countries, side effects, fatigue, and not least of all a LOT of stigma that has really been a bummer for their sex lives. It has not been a picnic. Without exception they would go back to being neg in a heartbeat if they could. (None of them knew I had quit PrEP and I must admit that having sex with them once they were poz was so hot for me... though they were all undetectable by the time we did it, and I would never admit my chasing fantasies, which I think would have shocked and hurt them deeply).

With those thoughts I began to notice I was bottoming less frequently and topping more (I'm naturally pretty vers though obviously when in chasing mode it's bottoming that's the real thrill), I think unconsciously moving away from risk taking. I also read the account of a chaser who, once he converted, no longer got much pleasure out of sex at all. If the thrill is in the risk, and *either* being on PrEP *or* being poz means there is no risk, then I think the effect will be the same -- with the obvious difference being that once poz there's no going back. (To answer your question above: would having sex with poz guys still be as thrilling once you're poz yourself? I don't think so, though sex with any liberated, self-assured guy will always be hot).

I think you see that in a lot of the chat on here about poz guys seeking out other strains, hoping for "superinfection," even eroticizing other infections like Hepatitis C. They've used up that one fetish so they are pushing the envelope ever further in search of a new thrill.

I must admit that the idea of pozzing other willing chasers myself has been a powerful turnon. But in itself I'm not sure it's enough of a reason to overlook the other drawbacks I've mentioned. And I also know myself well enough to know that if I pozzed someone, even at his request, and he later ended up regretting it, I would have a hard time living with that.

So, long-winded way of saying that I've decided to end the yearlong "PrEP holiday" for now. I seem to have made it through still negative, and I had a great ride for a few months, but there is more to life than chasing thrills.

This isn't necessarily the end of the story -- the option remains to go for another spin of the roulette wheel. But a major difference is that I'm twice your age and the opportunity cost of doing so would be commensurately smaller. Your sexual drives and tastes evolve a great deal between 20 and 40. Your brain's capacity for judgement isn't even fully formed until your mid-20s. Don't assume that what turns you on now, and how you feel about making irreversible decisions, will always be the same.

If you can make your peace with the slightly less heart-thumping reality of PrEP sex, it will keep more options open for you in the future. You can always change your mind again later.

[6811283]

8 hours ago, 6811283 said:

During this year I've had four close buddies seroconvert.

To clarify: I did not poz my buddies... I was and remain negative. Most of them have at least some idea how they got infected. I didn't pry, but was a good listener and supportive friend if they volunteered those details... and then masturbated furiously thinking about them alone later.

[LKMike]

This is an interesting thread. Also as someone who is more than twice your age (Oh god! did you stop reading already! I would have lol.) i have to agree with 6811283. i have always been a thrill seeker, was in the ER as a child so often that it triggered an investigation into my parents who then sent me to boarding school. i have been on and off PrEP for about 4 years. i get the thrill factor, i totally revel in it. Over the years i have done the same with many things, raced cars and motorcycles, sky dived ( after my AAD beat me to the pull twice), diving with sharks, aerobatics in a glider, plenty of things that could result in incarceration. Today, few things provide that thrill, as you can see from my avatar playing with castration, is quite a thrill, but i know, like all the other things it will soon lose its thrill. Do something several times and the thrill goes. It will be the same when you contract HIV. i have plenty of broken bones and scares but nothing that i will have to medicate for the rest of my life. i am off PrEP at the moment because the risky anon sex i was having became a chore, with the effort of hooking up out weighing the thrill of the sex. i am sure that will come back, and i will go back on PrEP. i have found that not thinking about taking it, not making it a big mental note, it becomes insignificant. When i first took it, the pill itself was a thrill. I fantasized about it as taking a female contraceptive pill, but that part waned. Its just part of my routine of a calcium pill and mens multivitamin. The pill itself lost any significance. i am sure you probably have a list of activities that were once the thrill of your life! Look at that list, probably some laughable things on it that you were once so passionate about. Be sure HIV wouldnt just be another thing on the list.

[bbaremich]

I can totally understand where the original poster is coming from. Since I have started taking Truvada, I can agree that my sex has become a big boring even though I still have anonymous encounters. I definitely am attracted to poz guys, especially unmedicated toxic guys. Right now, though, I am about to finish up my doctorate degree in less than a year and I can’t take the time out to be sick and deal with the first stage of infection. I know once I’m a little older, I will likely stop prep and try to convert. 

I think you have to do what your brain is telling you: lose the PrEP and be a cumslut looking for poz loads

[wood]

9 hours ago, 6811283 said:

 

BUT... and there's always a but... thrills can't continue indefinitely at the same level of intensity. The outrageous becomes normal, and then you either adjust to less intensity or you have to seek out new extremes. Over the past 11 months I've had some great episodes (and will jerk off to the memories forever) but I've also continued to think about the tradeoffs.

During this year I've had four close buddies seroconvert. None of them wanted it -- in fact they were all considering PrEP in one way or another but hadn't gotten around to it. They've adjusted and it hasn't been the end of their lives, but I've seen the shit they've gone through with insurance issues, worries about changing jobs or moving countries, side effects, fatigue, and not least of all a LOT of stigma that has really been a bummer for their sex lives. It has not been a picnic. Without exception they would go back to being neg in a heartbeat if they could. (None of them knew I had quit PrEP and I must admit that having sex with them once they were poz was so hot for me... though they were all undetectable by the time we did it, and I would never admit my chasing fantasies, which I think would have shocked and hurt them deeply).

 

So, long-winded way of saying that I've decided to end the yearlong "PrEP holiday" for now. I seem to have made it through still negative, and I had a great ride for a few months, but there is more to life than chasing thrills.

 

Edited some stuff out, but This is a great post.  

To the OP, I want you to think about something, and thats a life without sex.  For many reasons, men sometimes either stop having sex, or cant because of medical or physical reasons.  Think about that life if you are HIV+ or HIV-.  I say this because life has tons of ups, downs and changes.  Right now sex is a fairly important part of your life, and there is a good chance that may not always be the case.  While HIV is pretty much a non-issue in terms of life span today it still drastically complicate things, From things like life insurance, possibly having a kid, to paying for medication.  

You have to make your own decisions on this, but I would strongly suggest you think about your ENTIRE life, and everything that goes along with it, and think about that life WITHOUT sex, but WITH HIV.  I think you may find that staying on PrEP may be a good idea.  

This forum is great for lots of things, but in general I have found balanced arguments lacking, and for the people that will say, "Yeah dont worry, get pozzed" Thats like saying to an addict, "dont worry about it, do all the drugs your want, you will make it out."  Yeah there is a good chance you will be OKAY, but at what long term expense, or complication to the rest of your life?       

[6811283]

3 hours ago, LKMike said:

 i have found that not thinking about taking it, not making it a big mental note, it becomes insignificant. When i first took it, the pill itself was a thrill. I fantasized about it as taking a female contraceptive pill, but that part waned. Its just part of my routine of a calcium pill and mens multivitamin. The pill itself lost any significance.

That's a good point. It sounds from the dates of your posts like you were only on PrEP for two or possibly three months. You may not have given it enough time to really just forget about it. Like LKMike, when I'm on PrEP I just take it with my vitamins (I use one of those weekly pill sorters so I don't see the Truvada bottle) and I barely think about it.

Think about PrEP like a time machine: either back to the 1970s before AIDS... or into the future (10? 20? 50 years?) after there's a cure. HIV is a tiny slice of the history of gay life, comparatively speaking. Didn't guys enjoy sex just fine before HIV, and won't they after it? The existence of HIV is a small blip in history and it's nonsensical to think that it always has been and always will be central to being gay. Don't get too caught up in the idea of pozzing as inevitable just because it is a fad in 2017.

[scott0882]

Best thing is giving PrEP a try and see if the side effects would go away after awhile. I’m not on PrEP, but not of my own doing. I asked getting on it and doctor’s would refuse to prescribe it. There advice was practice safe sex considering I caught an std before. 

[6811283]

1 hour ago, scott0882 said:

I’m not on PrEP, but not of my own doing. I asked getting on it and doctor’s would refuse to prescribe it.

That is bullshit, scott0882. Find a new doctor who isn't a moralizing asshole. Check out preplocator.org

Edited November 26, 2017 by 6811283