How many people here have been bullied by one of the moderators?

[hntnhole]

30 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

"Where should I post...."

I will admit that almost every other guy on here is more compu-literate than I am.  When I first joined and started sniffing around, it seemed like one click would send me to another place, and it was intimidating.  There are still conversations I lose, and I'll be damned if I know where they went.  It's true I don't have time to sit and pick for hours on end, and all of that said I still find Breeding Zone a great resource despite the fact that I'm a compu-cripple.  At first, I even took notes on how to get where.  

The way I see it, that's my problem for not giving a rats ass about how all of this stuff works; there were other people to do that for me; and now I'm behind the 8-ball.  Maybe a "kindergarten" for some of us, but that's hardly a productive way to run a business either.  Perseverance  is the only option for guys that enjoy the site immensely.  Even I'm getting better at it !!! 

[Diesel]

In support of the moderators, I would suggest that they have an entirely thankless task, for a job that they do, by & large very efficiently. Without them it’s difficult to see how this site can survive. I doubt either of them would miss the probably non existent salary! It certainly doesn’t come from my subs, or anyone else’s.

Their task is rather like that of a children’s soccer referee taking very public and verbal abuse when they rule against  a parent’s particular team or child. Not surprisingly in areas where this occurs it’s becoming impossible to retain or recruit people into these positions; then surprise surprise teams and leagues are disbanded. The disrespectful parents are entirely to blame when this happens. 

Without moderation and rules this site would be in a minefield of legal disasters, waiting to happen, including, but not limited to closure or litigation 

Now my dealings with both the moderators  has been extremely limited, but less it be said I’m trying to curry favour for myself, I will say they are human, and as such not infallible.

Mistakes will inevitably sometimes happen. However if I found myself being sanctioned for something I’d done, I would either grin and bear it, or if I felt it was questionable, or unfair, I would raise this directly with the person concerned. I would be confident of a fair hearing, or second opinion.

Complaining publicly, with the obvious intention of causing embarrassment to the parties concerned, is not the way to change any minds. It’s a bit like having a shouting argument in a restaurant, when the meal has been unsatisfying. A quiet discrete complaint is far more likely to lead to a resolution.

Goading or daring people to take sanctions, is pretty dumb, and may not have the intended consequences.

Its a bloody good job I am not on the moderating team, because I would show considerably less restraint towards some of the nasty complainants, than has been shown here.

Anyone unhappy with the site, (rules & all) is entitled to either cease active participation or if they wish they are free to leave.

[BootmanLA]

On 10/2/2022 at 1:43 PM, hotpussyboy said:

Yes, I agree with what you've said. Viking8x6 downvoted me twice unnecessarily so I simply ignored the downvote. When you're dealing with an idiot it's a waste of time to try reasoning with "it"; it simply won't get you anywhere. Downvoting is probably the only thing that gets him off - pretty sad.

Interestingly, you seem to be attracting downvotes across the board, and you certainly are making use of that ability yourself. It's your choice, of course, whether to post content that attacks the moderators, or to downvote people simply because you've got a grudge against them because they downvoted something of yours. But I wouldn't recommend it to others as a general strategy for being able to utilize the site fully.

[PozBearWI]

On 10/2/2022 at 1:43 PM, hotpussyboy said:

Yes, I agree with what you've said. Viking8x6 downvoted me twice unnecessarily so I simply ignored the downvote. When you're dealing with an idiot it's a waste of time to try reasoning with "it"; it simply won't get you anywhere. Downvoting is probably the only thing that gets him off - pretty sad.

( including @BoyStrangler)  Do you equate a downvote as bullying???  That seems to mean then that anyone who disagrees with you is bullying you?  And you find them "sad".  Or anyone who disagrees is "getting off"....

To the extent that is so; man I hope that eases up for you.  In a healthy forum we should be able to disagree with each other.  If you're getting downvotes; then asking about that is the only way you'll learn why someone disagrees with you.  Perhaps you'll learn that your assertion was mistaken.   Perhaps you'll be able to add supporting fact on your position.  Maybe you were getting downvotes as a reflection of your own bullying?  Absent clarifying text though; a downvote is simply an "I disagree".  That's how we inform each other and learn other points of view.  It is fundamental to how we learn.  If we stop supporting healthy dialogue what do you imagine our future to be?  I ask because history doesn't frame humans in a loving, caring, friendly light aggregating first human to now .  When we stop exchanging ideas and differing points of view we risk isolating ourselves into closed pods of thought.  Disagreement joined with understanding helps all of us evolve.

My direct interactions with @viking8x6 was definitely not bullying. He properly called me on posting a particular POV that belonged in the back room.  He was absolutely correct.  It was my eff up and I know better.  I didn't have to, but I apologized; as one might expect when we are behaving respectfully towards each other.  He was very friendly in replying to that.  I would have to look to see if he has downvoted any of my posts.  But even if he had; I would have been glad he expressed his opinion.  He is a member here; and was a member before becoming a mod.  Under a different handle and at a different place in life I was a moderator here on BZ.  I am glad to not be doing that; but I am grateful for these guys as they are the fellows charged with helping keep us in line.  Which in turns helps @rawTOP keep this site alive.  

There is more than one moderator here; but all of them see what each other does; in effect moderating each other.  If any of them were actually exhibiting bullying behavior they would have checked each other.  @rawTOP is an active participant here, not just the site owner.  I love it when he joins in the "conversation" that is BZ.  We're all on the same team here.  That doesn't mean we have to always agree.  Just be respectful, ask and learn, or make your point and be happy you said it.  Nothing "sad" about that. 

On the plus side, if this was bullying you; then this is great news!  Because in that case you are one of the lucky ones who has never actually been bullied; with fists and broken off beer bottles...  With actual palpable threats of physical harm.  I don't condone any of that BTW, but I have personally experienced it just for being gay in the "wrong place".  Disagreements are not bullying.

[Jimmi]

One thing i think, and i know i risk being a brown-noser here.  (Is that a U.S. expression? In case it’s not, it means kissing arse).   It’s really admirable that this thread hasn’t been censored.  As a private website the moderators would be within their rights to shut down any conversation they didn’t like. 

[ErosWired]

14 minutes ago, Jimmi said:

It’s really admirable that this thread hasn’t been censored.

It’s not just admirable, it’s a generous indulgence granted to the malcontents here, because posting content critical of site moderation is a flagrant violation of the site rules of conduct. Each and every one of these mouthy diatribes against the Mods is in fact an infraction-level offense, and it’s only because the Moderators are emphatically not tyrants that they’ve allowed these inane protestations of butthurt to take place.

Frankly, I think they should shut this whole shitshow of a thread down now, point made, and get back to enforcing the rule as written, and take the undeserved ‘Kick Me’ sign off their own backs, but they know their own business best.

[PozBearWI]

Honest I am glad the mods have left this in place.  That small group of malcontents seem to be bullies.  Similar to a lot of recent political behavior, their way of "absolving" themselves seems to be to self describe in the form of blaming others.  This is a great thread to discover who some of them are... 

As a thread though, I'm done with this particular one.  So glad that most of us are understanding of our mods here; and as Hillary said, there are some "deplorables".  🙂

Peace my brothers!

[tallslenderguy]

Sort of an aside, but i think germane to the discussion: i don't like downvotes. i've only received or used them a few times (which i regret).  To me, they are not just the opposite of an up vote. The few times i have received one, i've always felt sort of slapped in the face... which is why i have stopped using them as well. i don't want anyone to feel that way (even though i know my feelings are not universal). A heart or upvote is positive affirmation, and though i might wish for more feedback as to why the responder felt or thought that way, it's always a positive for me to receive one.  

A downvote leaves question marks and opens the door for speculation because it only conveys dislike or disapproval, without any feedback as to why the downvoter thought or felt that way. i think it also makes it easier to be petty and even abusive. If a person gives a written response disagreeing with another, there is a place and chance for dialogue, discussion. To me, a downvote feels like a drive by flipping me off.  i think it is a poor or incomplete form of communication and i wish it was not a part of this site. 

[blackrobe]

1 hour ago, tallslenderguy said:

Sort of an aside, but i think germane to the discussion: i don't like downvotes. i've only received or used them a few times (which i regret).  To me, they are not just the opposite of an up vote. The few times i have received one, i've always felt sort of slapped in the face... which is why i have stopped using them as well. i don't want anyone to feel that way (even though i know my feelings are not universal). A heart or upvote is positive affirmation, and though i might wish for more feedback as to why the responder felt or thought that way, it's always a positive for me to receive one.  

A downvote leaves question marks and opens the door for speculation because it only conveys dislike or disapproval, without any feedback as to why the downvoter thought or felt that way. i think it also makes it easier to be petty and even abusive. If a person gives a written response disagreeing with another, there is a place and chance for dialogue, discussion. To me, a downvote feels like a drive by flipping me off.  i think it is a poor or incomplete form of communication and i wish it was not a part of this site. 

A thoughtful response, as always. I vastly prefer giving positive feedback myself. I'd offer at least one counterpoint to your thought though.

In a lot of discussions commenting can add more fuel to a fire that you might think should just be allowed to go out. In those cases, I think downvoting is a way of signaling that without adding that fuel. 

To your point, however, in some cases it's pretty clear that some individuals have used downvoting in a vengeful way. I think those cases are fairly easy to see. 

[tallslenderguy]

1 minute ago, blackrobe said:

A thoughtful response, as always. I vastly prefer giving positive feedback myself. I'd offer at least one counterpoint to your thought though.

In a lot of discussions commenting can add more fuel to a fire that you might think should just be allowed to go out. In those cases, I think downvoting is a way of signaling that without adding that fuel. 

To your point, however, in some cases it's pretty clear that some individuals have used downvoting in a vengeful way. I think those cases are fairly easy to see. 

Thanks for the feedback blackrobe, i always appreciate your posts. 

Point taken, few issues have a black or white answer, eh? There are posts that i end up not responding to at all for the reason you cite (i.e., the potential of fueling a fire). To me, the ultimate goal of a forum is to discuss and engage, sometimes debate. As many in this community know from plethora posts,  i came out a fundamentalist background that was rife with people who 'know the truth,' so i'm likely more sensitive to those who present as absolutist or pedantic. Even in a lively debate, if both parties are aware they could be wrong, there can be dialogue vs one or both just trying to convince the other igorant person of their clear understanding of ___________.  

If i encounter that, i generally ignore that person because i'm convinced they are not interested in me or what i might have to say anyway. To me the danger of giving just a downvote to such a person is the reason for the downvote is left to their imagination and interpretation, which seems to have the effect of fueling vs dampening a fire.

[blackrobe]

6 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

Thanks for the feedback blackrobe, i always appreciate your posts. 

Point taken, few issues have a black or white answer, eh? There are posts that i end up not responding to at all for the reason you cite (i.e., the potential of fueling a fire). To me, the ultimate goal of a forum is to discuss and engage, sometimes debate. As many in this community know from plethora posts,  i came out a fundamentalist background that was rife with people who 'know the truth,' so i'm likely more sensitive to those who present as absolutist or pedantic. Even in a lively debate, if both parties are aware they could be wrong, there can be dialogue vs one or both just trying to convince the other igorant person of their clear understanding of ___________.  

If i encounter that, i generally ignore that person because i'm convinced they are not interested in me or what i might have to say anyway. To me the danger of giving just a downvote to such a person is the reason for the downvote is left to their imagination and interpretation, which seems to have the effect of fueling vs dampening a fire.

I think anything that stimulates some more broad-ranging self-examination in people is not entirely a bad thing.

There are certainly occasions where a dialog is contra-indicated. For example, when someone has a PTSD-based response to something posted here. 

There are plenty of threads where it's very clear there are people who don't have open minds on their certitude or fallibility. In the past, I've had a dialog with those people elsewhere for the benefit of everyone *else* who is reading the thread. I know nothing will change their minds, but the other people with critical thinking skills will get to understand better in the process. 

[tallslenderguy]

55 minutes ago, blackrobe said:

I know nothing will change their minds, but the other people with critical thinking skills will get to understand better in the process. 

 i think this is a good point in a forum community, and i have taken a similar approach myself on occasion, but it always leaves me feeling lousy, probably some ptsd there. Which, to my way of thinking, should not be the reason i do not participate. i think it's probably impossible to go through life without wounds, i do work to live with mine vs be defeated by them.  Case by case basis me thinks, it can go either way as to whether or not to try, but i think you make a good clarification that in a forum setting there are more than two people involved, even if the audience is not actively participating. 

[PushMePullYou]

On 10/4/2022 at 2:44 PM, Bruce999 said:

The Paul hotel 

As a newbie, I feel quite welcome and, to date, haven't been "bullied" by anyone. This is a free site with encouragement to support the sponsors.  I, for one, am grateful to have a space to comfortably talk about being piggy  together. I will admit I'm still trying to navigate the site better (I think there's more here than I'm taking advantage of) but I feel welcome and if I cross a line or say something out of place, I hope to be corrected so I can be a good neighbor, continuing to enjoy this great place to be myself in.

[hntnhole]

4 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

 To me, they are not just the opposite of an up vote

While it doesn't surprise me, I think you're taking it too close to your very large heart.  The up/down/frown/pig, etc doo-dads are only there to merely offer a tacit support of the stated position or lack of it.  The downvote function seems to come in handy mostly for those who cannot (for one reason or another) manage to compose a literate, written sentence.  As you, I use the upvote to agree with a response without feeling a written reply in order, and the "like" similarly.  I very seldom use the downvote, mostly because if I get started, I'm concerned what might come out of my fingers.  I take delight in offering the piggy image, when it's obviously deserved. 

That said, when an intellectual Prince finds himself amongst paupers, he only needs to graciously excuse himself - he doesn't need to take the reasons for others pauperhood upon himself.  😉

[AlwaysOpen]

Practice makes perfect. For everyone-- so if you got dinged for something, suck it up and get better at posting, or posting in the correct section. And MODS are always honing and perfecting themselves, and have the same odds in life of having an off moment or day and maybe reacting in a manner that they wouldn't have an hour later or earlier. In the RawTop realm of ID , I have 11 of the merit badge things, so I have been on here more than a month or a year and have experienced all this site has been or is now. BootManLA referred to the legislation that happened 8 or 9 years ago that had a lot of sites scrambling to comply, especially if they relied on ( and wanted to be able to continue to benefit from) credit card companies for merch sales  or memberships. At the time, old posts that had gone unflagged got flagged, and a lot of people who had posted perfectly OK, permitted posts at THAT time, were hit with an infraction.  I was embarrassed when it showed up on my profile, and wrote to RawTop explaining my argument that penalties for years old posts was wrong, and if the post now was out of step, simply delete it and start fresh. He wrote back saying the points were of a type that would not affect my membership- but they bothered me, and that was what he didn't "get" at that moment. Those points eventually went away, but I think in so many cases of issues raised here, and in looking back at my own experience, the site owner and Mods have to react in real time and do not have the luxury of coming back to rethink a topic or issue. Site rules and guidelines give them the parameters of OK and not OK by and large at that second, and that's where the ruling falls. And they move on to the next problem to resolve or remove or respond to. And to that end, I again go back to the first 3 words of this post.  And what YOU may consider perfect may not be, or at least not the version of perfect of this site.