tallslenderguy

I love conversations like this, when people open up and explore the "why's" behind their behavior, thank you all for your participation. I have a few thoughts about this topic, with the caveat that non of this is studied or evidenced info, just speculation. Non of my notions are absolute or even conclusions, just thoughts and feelings. I don't think any guy makes a decision to bareback. I think it's the opposite, we make the decision not to bareback, usually because of fear I believe. I've thought a lot about "chasing." When I read the comments and reasons a lot of chasers have, one that stands out to me is "getting knocked up." I think for a lot of chasers and gifters, there's an emotional connect, i.e, that getting/giving HIV is a sort of gay version of pregnancy and, by extension, perpetuation. What is being perpetuated is different, but if that difference is part of our identity, then it is still an emotional drive to perpetuate self. That may not make sense on a cognitive level, but emotions are deeper seated in our amygdala, at the core of our brain. We feel before we think, and our feelings often rule our decisions, whether they are 'reasonable' or not. Personally, I believe that the need/desire for love is the greatest drive in humankind. It is a thread that runs through all of us and binds us all together. I look at "Love" as seeing, hearing another and then acknowledging, affirming, validating them (all at varying levels). I think we're all the same and we're all different simultaneously, i.e., we all have the need/desire for love, but it takes on myriad expressions in our individuality (for instance, to my way of thinking, "top" or "bottom" is two sides of the same coin). In that context, the "stealther" is driven to perpetuate himself and the chaser is driven to be valued and given a part of the stealther. The fact that the exchange is done by 'stealth' adds another level to that drive on both sides (i.e., "gifter/chaser").

Prolly no worries of anyone thinking less of you for what you love. You're neg and cannot stealth.

I love Palm Springs... tempted to move there, but I am also a nurse and an organic grower and where I am at is ideal for growing food, not so much in the desert. Nursing is also hard, and getting used to a new work environment makes that exponential. It was only my second time there. I stayed at gay resorts both times. I actually end up feeling like one of the younger, better in shape guys (and that's at 60 without a gym body). There's a lot of older gay guys there. This vacation was really different from the first, but both were really good. The whole rollercoaster ride of actually falling for a hook-up was totally unexpected. Even though unrequited, I am grateful for the experience. Its kinda funny, I have been having sex with guys for 30+ years, but it's almost always been fb, anonymous hook-up. I have never actually spent the night with a guy in the bed next to me. I am surprised at how much I liked that. Would have liked it more if he had wanted me like he did the first day, but it was still good on other levels.

I agree. I get this too. It seems there are degrees of victimhood? I would put the guy on the sling as "barely a victim," but a "victim" none the less. We really do not know what's going on in the mind of the sling guy. He may be naive enough to think he achieves protection by serosorting, not taking into account all those guys claiming to be neg who rarely, if ever, test. Or even those guys who have converted since their last test. Then there's the poz but undetectable guys, arguably the 'safest' ones to fuck with because they know their status and are not likely to infect you with a load of undetectable seed. Stealthing, as I understand it, is something different though. Stealthing is a top who knows he is poz and likely contagious. This persons intent of stealthing is pretty much to put a poz load in a bottom without their knowing it, thus the term "stealthing"? I this care I think the bottom is a victim, though a kinda 'stupid' one and one who obviously doesn't take much responsibility on himself. But in fairness, there is the power of hormones on both sides lol. Hormones can make us all 'stupid.' I think the willful intent of someone purposefully trying to poz another person against their knowledge and will, using deceit, is "morally wrong."

warning, I'm processing... this may be long lol I come from a ultra conservative religious background and era. When i was a kid and realized my attraction to guys, there was no question in my mind that I was "broken" and that having sex with guys was an "abomination to God." I married young, barely 21 and stayed that way 31 years. I started cheating on my wife with guys at age 27 and have probably had a couple of thousand cocks up my ass. I divorced in 2008. It took me awhile to come to terms with all my ideas about "God." I often joke that being a fag saved me from God. So that's all good, I'm one of the most happy a peaceful people I know, I love my life, even though self acceptance meant being disowned by people I love, losing everything (a substantial amount), and starting over at middle age. When I first divorced I was now free to add dating and relationship to my guy encounters. I had long fantasized about having a 'ltr' with a guy, with romance. So I added dating sites to my cruising sites. Sites where I didn't have pictures of my body parts, just a bunch of shots of me living, all very 'normative.' I won't go into all the gory details of my attempts at dating, but suffice to say it wasn't anything like I hoped for. I got far more hits from women than men, even though I was clear that I was not looking for a romantic tangle with a woman, that I am "gay." Still, I did go out on dates, many were down right comical with the stereotypical misrepresentations, like lying about age and posting really old pics. But I made the effort, drove long distances, yada, yada. After awhile I gave up on sites like Match, the only one I am still on is OKCupid, and I have made some great friends there, but no sparks or romance... forced or otherwise. For a few years now I think I've just emotionally resigned myself to not falling in love and have even questioned whether my ideas of "falling in love" even exist in a gay setting, for me, given my age and who I am and my experiences to date. I really have been at peace with all of that, I don't feel any need to be in a romantic relationship and have pretty much given up on pursuing anything, but not at a place where I rule it out. I'm okay either way, but don't have that pulling hope I once had. I discovered Palm Springs in February. I'd never been, posted here asking for suggestions for a "sexcation" and ended up at a gay resort. Had a blast (for those of you who have never been, I recommend it, it's kind of a gay mecca). I liked it so much that when I got home, I booked another vacation and am sitting at the airport ready to go home from my second visit (it's monday). I was only here 5 nights, wed-mon. On Friday afternoon I was on a lounge in one of the cruising areas of the resort where I stayed, and this guy approaches me. I had shorts and a t-shirt on, so I saw him stop to put his shorts on before heading over. If I were on a dating site looking at guys pictures, I would not have selected this guy as attractive to me. Ill let anyone with a cock fuck me, but dating and relationship attraction is a whole other matter to me. We talked a bit, just chit chat, and he got up to go after about 10 minutes, and I pointed to his cock and said "can I have some of this before you leave?" He smiled and was okay with. I was took his cock out of his shorts and began to suck it (it was a beautiful cock, at least 8" and very thick, a little intimidating... but in a good way), and he pretty much immediately grabbed my hair and worked my mouth on is cock. He then said: "I'm not a very public guy," so I didn't hesitate to ask him back to my room. Back in the room, he sat back against the headboard and wanted me between his legs sucking. At some point I quipped that he had "Dom traits" and it was like giving him permission to express himself. He went almost into Dom textbook mode, coaching me to take all of his cock (it was all progressive, not all at once and not forceful.. he knew what he was doing and was good at it). I have never had a cock in my throat quite like his. I felt like I had it all and he would coach, "a little more, just past that second curve," the whole time saying "good boy," with loads of praise in his voice and telling me to look him in the eyes while I swallowed his cock, again an awkward thing to do in that position, but I did. Progressing along asking me questions while I had a mouth full of cock, like "whose the bottom?"... "whose the top?" Making sure he asked all questions when I couldn't really answer. Again, text book (I can read too, lol). I haven't had a lot of experience with Dom guys, not for lack of trying. I know all about FetLife and Recon and am a member on both. But contrary to what many who identify as Dom want, I am not interested in just anyone who says they are "Dom." Some of the stuff just seems silly to me, but ok, but I hate bullies. To me that is a sign of weakness, not strength. I'm into intellectual types who understand mind fuck. Ive seen several who were what I like, but so far they were either not interested in me, prolly because of my age. Tops, Dom or otherwise, have so many to choose from, I don't float to the top of most lists. I look younger than my age, so meeting guys is easier in person. Anyway, this guy at the resort was pushing all my buttons. He obviously was getting into me, and I into him. I'm not particularly oral, though I know how to satisfy most guys with my mouth because I love to please tops, even if it's not what I prefer. I was beginning to think this was all he was into, but then he said: "its time to have the STI discussion." I told him my status of undetectable. We also exchanged ages. He was 53 and figured I was about his age and was surprised when I said "60." I'm just at a place in my life where I refuse to lie if theres any chance of something more than a hook-up, and I was intoxicated by this guy. I was even willing to let him fuck me with a condom, which is saying a lot, though I was pretty adamant that I'm a cum slut... again, complete honesty. He ended up trying to get his hand in me. He was diabetic and said he couldn't chance another chronic disease. But then he volunteered to go out and try and recruit guys to breed me. Lol, holy fuck, another bottom dream come true, eh? And he did, without success, only one guy came back with him and he was a bottom and only wanted to watch. At this point he fucked me with a condom on while this guy watched and came. After, he took me to dinner and we walked to the restaurant. As we walked, he reached over several times and groped my ass, or slid his hand down my crack... it made me crazy (in a good way), kind of a sensuous ownership gesture and I loved it. We spent the night together and next day he barely touched me all day. It was like he'd made a decision that I was out, my guess is because he didn't want a 60 year old poz cum slut. We had a fun day together and when I kinda hinted at the sex, he said his cock was sore and that he wasn't always horny. I get that, but think it was really about a decision he had made, that I just wasn't long term material for him. He flew out to Seattle yesterday and I am flying back to Oregon today. We're FB friends, but I won't be surprised if he never contacts me again. Here's the thing, I totally get that we can't make stuff happen, and I'm not gonna be pathetic about this. I could easily have fallen for this guy, but I'm experienced at life enough to know when something isn't mutual, whatever the reason. I was somewhat open about how much I liked him, but stopped when I saw it wasn't reciprocated... though it sure seemed to be initially. I got a lot out of the experience though, even if my feelings are a little bruised right now. I found out that personality can supersede physical attraction for me. I also found out I am capable of having that giddy head over heels feeling towards a real person (vs just fantasies), that such things are possible, even if remotely so. It's kinda encouraged me to get back on the dating horse after several years of not really trying.

How does one get "accidentally fisted"?

Yeah, was weird... was being too mindless and just trying to get done. I was worried that it would end my activity for the day, but that turned out fine. Takes a lot to keep a slut down.

while cleaning out? I'm at a gay resort, my last day, and I have a possible hook up with a guy later who is into breeding, opening hole, FF. I still haven't had a whole hand, butt am close and think i can take a small one. Here's the thing, I bring my shower douche with me and today something happened that has never happened before. THere's some pretty good water pressure, butt I've had that before. While putting the tip in, I hit a nerve and the pain was excruciating. My hole can look like a pussy when I'm cleaning it and pushing lots of water out, definite ass lips (Likely highly exercised hemmoroids? ). Either way, as best I can tell, I hit one in just the right way and ended up vagaling, had to lie down quick and put my feet over my head (was pretty easy really, a natural position for me). The weird part was the pain, I'm surprised I have not vagaled before, given all the attention my hole has had over there years. Thought maybe I'd broken a hemorrhoid, but no blood, so I obviously just tweaked something. I'm resting it for a bit before I finish cleaning... don't want to not be able to take stuff since it's my last day. Anyone else have something like this happen before?

Yeah. That's why I clarified what I consider "stealthing" vs just having anonymous sex. I agree, disclosure is a complex subject. If a cruising site has a profile section for stating such, I select "undetectable" just as a matter of convenience. It's easier than agreeing to hook up and last minute the other person asks: "are you clean." But I do not consider it my responsibility to assume the other guy wants to know. That's the other edge of the blade that would assume they want it. I only know they want to know if they tell me, I'm not a mind reader either way. To reiterate: stealthing means purposefully deceiving someone who has voiced they wanna know, or wants one to use a condom. My guess is that most steal thing is done by those who declare themselves "clean" but cannot substantiate it. That's just as much of a deception, but I know that fact whenever I have sex and make my own choice to do it anyway sans condom.

I'd like to clarify that to me "stealthing" constitutes deception, it's not the equivalent of anonymous sex. To my way of thinking, if I choose to indulge i anonymous sex, I assume all the risks with that, including contracting an STI. If someone asks me if I am positive, I tell them, but I don't wear a sign around my neck, ring a bell and declare "unclean." If someone wants to have sex with me using a condom, I decline, because sex without cum is incomplete for me, coitus interuptus. The fact that sex is a two way street means both parties are responsible for their self, not the other. If a person expresses to me that they are concerned about STI's and they ask, I will tell them the truth. If they don't ask, then that demonstrates to me that it is not an issue for them. To me, stealthing is the purposeful deception of another person who has asked, or implied by insisting on a condom, for the intent of loading them with a poz load. It's not about the person being poz, but them making a deceptive effort to poz someone who has made it clear they don't want to be poz.

PS i like the fact that we discuss stuff like this here,

Ditto to the many who state it's not ok. Most of us here do not follow normative standards of morality, but that doesn't mean amoral. purposefully trying to poz someone without their consent is wrong. Is it okay to break someone's leg or punch them in the gut (sans permission, lol, some may want that, though I can't see myself finding that okay ), or how about add poison to their drink? I think it's pretty basic, stealthing is purposeful intent to do harm because HIV is a disease, he'll, is wanna know if someone had the flu before kissing them lol

I would say sure, there are some where there is a correlation, but would not equate that with a generalized cause and effect. I think it's a valid question though. Maybe even go a step further: "is self esteem enough for anyone?" I.e., people are social and we need each other. At what point does need become an aberration? Gays represent a social group/culture that has had to question and challenge the norm in order to exist, so barebacking could also be an expression of high self esteem? I am guessing you are implying the risk of HIV? Back before antibiotics, diseases like syphilis and gonorrhea were an issue for anyone (straight or gay). Was it low self esteem for them to engage in bare, non-monogamous sex or was it just going along with ones sex drive? And, even though the risk is less, there is still risk to a top for catching HIV, so we could also ask: "are tops with low self esteem more likely to agree to bareback sex?" Then there's the fact that HIV, syphilis and gonorrhea all have treatments now, it's no longer a devastating thing. I find the whole gay drive, bottom or top, to be fascinating. Evolutionary theory sums up the straight sex drive to survival of the species, which doesn't work for gays in either position. Unless we start considering other factors of survival, like pleasure, connectedness, etc..

I can't imagine, though my experience is tops are pickier than bottoms. Or it just may seem that way because there are way more bottoms that tops, the percentage of picky may be the same, just that 50% of a thousand is a lot more than 50% of ten lol. You may just be experiencing what us bottoms experience all the time... though I do get that you qualify "lately." Idk, you look hot to me.

My guess is these are guys who think they're pretty hot and have romantic notions. Idk, but obviously they are not "cum sluts" if they have a qualifier on it, like "cum slut for hot models only" or ________________? I will take cock and cum from anyone who can fuck and breed, but I won't let most guys kiss me (I'm not a kiss slut). Funny, I have a top who has an awesome cock and brags about his ability to fuck for hours, but he's had his prostate removed and claims he does not ejaculate anything. So, I have demurred several times when he has cruised me. It frustrates the hell out of me to get fucked and not get cum or piss. Weird? Idk, I'm a cum slut, but I guess not a total cock slut? I don't quite understand that because I am interested in getting fisted, though I have yet to take a whole hand yet. I am really turned on by a tops lust and desire to open me up, that is almost as hot as getting bred to me. Maybe it has something to do with him leaving his 'mark' on me, so to speak? But I am pickier about who I let do that, but not picky at all about who breeds me. I haven't even seen 90% of the guys who have bred me, always laying face down or through a GH, or back to them. TMI? lol

Like others have voiced, nah. Not that I never felt those things, but I have changed. The standards I held as "true" or "right" just aren't that clear cut anymore. Guys that may have 'disgusted' me in the past, I've come to appreciate. I love guys who love to fuck and breed, who love ass... that's pretty much my standard now. I do wish i hadn't cheated on my former wife, but I am pretty forgiving of myself even though I think what I did was wrong (by my standards). But I was also in a rotten position, grew up in a culture that equated who I am with being "broken" and "sinning." It took me awhile to process through all of that, but meanwhile, I still had a sex drive, so I cheated and then lied about it. I hated myself the whole time, for years (most of my life). I don't anymore. I'm not even disgusted by what I did, I get it. I was only disgusted when I had some beliefs that kept me from living.

Works for me... i love being the bottom missionary style. my favorite is to be lying naked and face down, anonymous walk in breeding. I'm tall and doggie style is hard on my knees, plus there's the mind fuck part of it where I am more under the top, kinda under his control in missionary. plus there is no question of being a total bottom. the top who wants me missionary style obviously just wants my hole to breed and isn't interested in my cock, i can't touch it (not that i would anyway), but it's totally focused on hole breeding. so, that's not a problem for me (_0_)

Not me, i can usually keep it in no problem... especially if it's deep. I've been stealth pissed in at a ABS before through a GH and then been bred by others after, not realizing I've been pissed in until later when I get home... it's so fucking hot to find out that way.

Oh fuck yeah, balls deep. It's not just a physical thing, it's the hole idea of the top wanting to get in as deep as he can to make his deposit... like his survival depends on it. I want his cum (or piss) in me so deep that it's more likely to be absorbed than leak out. I love the feel and idea of a tops substance becoming a part of me. Before he cums, I think it's hot when a top likes to play with a hole and express himself. Some like to grind deep, some like to keep pulling out and going in so they can gape and see the hole respond to them. Some like to slap their balls against my taint. It's all fucking hot, but love it deep when they finally let go and leave a part of their self in me.

last couple of hours at the ABS. 4 outta 6 of the guys wanted bj, so I got 4 oral loads and then 2 up the ass. #5 had a sweet, fat cock and I asked him into my booth so i could get the whole thing vs using just the GH. While I was sucking him a guy stuck his cock through the GH and said to back my ass up while I sucked the other guy. I did that till the first guy got hard enough to fuck, then offered him my ass. he slid in and came pretty quickly while the other guy watched through the GH. after he left, i just kept the door open and continued to assume the position and the guy watching through the GH came over and gave me load #6 and left. place was empty after that, thinking of driving to the big city (Portland) and going to one of the bath houses. feeling kinda limp and used and wanting more.

Interesting. I've had plenty of opportunity to be with women, but not really had strong enough desire to go through with it. I was married to a woman for a big chunck of my life, so have had plenty of man/woman sex, but she is the only woman I have ever been with. Two opportunities that stand out to me are a woman I dated right after my divorce. I thought I might be Bi, so I didn't limit my dating to men. Any women I have dated have not been heteronormative though. The first woman was a German visiting professor. She was teaching womens studies at UI. She was lesbian one of the primary leaders of the lesbian community in Germany and she shifted and discovered one day that she wanted to be with a man. I liked her and she wanted sex with me, but I just didn't feel it, so she moved on because she wanted sex. The other was a woman to man transgender person. I really liked this person a lot, but despite my cerebral acceptance of this person being a man in a womans body, there was something about him that just reminded me of being with a woman (besides the vagina). I never had sex with him either because he never completely struck me as a guy. I also had a crush on one of the doctors at work, thought he was really cute and loved his personality. He was gone for awhile and came back to work as a woman. That was mind bending for me, to realize I had a crush on someone I perceived as male who ended up being a woman. I still think she's cute, but I don't find I have the same feelings anymore.

im a pretty complete bottom and have fantasized about no cock at all. Have had a few Doms who referred to my cock as a "clit" and talked to me about having only a "pussy." The idea is a turn on for me, but more fantasy than anything. For me it's a power exchange thing, but have had so pretty hot hook up responses with this pic.

lol, love this post and your sense of humor about it. I don't think this experience identifies or qualifies you anywhere near "prude." The truth is, a complete blackout does not constitute "complete sensory depravation," just visual. You still have your sense of touch, sound, smell and taste. In this case, it seems like your sense of smell did you in, and it also even took you back into a place of 'seeing' because it allowed you to identify the person trying to kiss you and you still had a picture of him in your brain. So, in a way, you 'saw' him. My guess is that ignited your imagination in the wrong direction, and all you imagined was unattractive to you? In some ways I think of myself as very "piggy," but many a 'pig' would disagree because I don't like strong smells. If someones breath is "bad" to me, I am turned off, same with pits or crotch. Same with taste. If a guys cock or ass tastes like it hasn't been cleaned in a week, I find it pretty disgusting... though, if I have a guys cock in my mouth, I'm not gonna give it up because of taste or smell, i will still suck it in hopes of being bred or at least getting his load lol, but I won't enjoy it quite as much. But I'll turn away if it's his breath, pits, ass or any other part of him.

I'm practically all bottom, and mostly anally oriented at that. Not very oral, but I can be that way and if I am going to suck a cock, I'm gonna be attentive and purposeful. Same with eating an ass. I don't think I'm very piggy. But I have piggy tendencies? For instance, I love to be pissed in and on, but not in my mouth? Not into strong smells, I like clean and showered, top or bottom. I've eaten some, smooth little bubble butts and could have died happy doing it. If I smell the smallest amount of scat, I am turned off. If I encounter cum, I'll likely play with it with my tongue, but will prolly leave it in the hole out respect for the breeder... I know, it's just me. That's the limited extent of my eating ass. As a bottom, my legs spread and my ass lifts to any top who wants it. I fucking love a top who likes to start out by eating my hole. My favorite are tops who get into leaving their signature on my hole. It makes me crazy wild when I can feel that kind of energy from my top, whether they are using their mouth, cock, toy, hand, if I can feel their energy through it, I am involuntarily moaning and all theirs. Some of the most awesome fucks i have had start or end (or both) with having my hole eaten out. My feel is it is not so much that they are trying to get any cum out that someone else may have left, but that they are literally changing my hole, i.e., eating my hole out. These are the guys that, when they leave, my hole is wet, sloppy, gaping and often looks distinctly like a swollen pussy with lips. IOW, it looks different than they found it, they have left their mark on it, and i fucking love that.

Ditto the others who ave suggested professional couples counseling. Your initial question: "should I just be happy?" is not cerebral decision in my experience. I am a non-traditionalist. I often say that being gay delivered me from "God." I grew up in a very religious culture that didn't recognize there was even such a thing as being gay, but rather considered it a choice. So I tried to fit myself into a traditional life, wife, kids, etc.. But who I am did not fit into traditional ways, so I spent a lot of time and energy processing though who I am and learning how to live a happy, healthy life. I originally thought, after I divorced, that I'd find a guy to be a partner with. It was part of my cultural up bringing that I just transferred from my straight life to my gay life, but I have never been partnered with a guy in any traditional sense of the word, and I am perfectly happy. I am not opposed to it, but I don't feel a need for it either. I think friendship is highly underrated. I've dated one of the heads of the lesbian movement in Germany, we never had sex (she wanted it, I didn't), but it was a great relationship. I dated a transgender (woman to man) person, same thing. I've considered polyamory, but that just seems an extension of monogamy to me. For me (and I know this is just me) I've pretty much decided that it is improbable that anyone can get all their wants or needs met with one person. Having an expectation that another person meet a need/want, leads to disappointment when it doesn't happen. Simple statement, I know. I am not saying that you have the expectation that your husband meet all your wants or needs, but you do have the expectation that he have sex with you, and he does not. I think counseling could help you identify why you have that need/want, and he does not, then maybe figure out if one of you can change, or both somewhat, or change the relationship?