hntnhole

Thanks for the kind words .... The actual "pain" has faded, it's just more crusted-over now. I've never been one to wear my sorrows on my sleeve.

You do raise a good point: they should have publicized that policy clearly, and I'm sorry you had that experience. I don't see any reason you shouldn't have been able to bring those things in with you either.

I don't think I made it down to boystown even that many times - maybe twice, three times? I don't remember any of that negative behavior though - maybe because I "passed"? Mans Country was only a few blocks away from where we lived in A-ville, and finding parking in boystown was a total bitch. Thanks for your input.

As I recall, the term came into general use (within the gay community, obviously) once there was a treatment for hiv. I don't recall the term being used prior to that blessed event. There were still tons of guys using condoms, and it may be that those who didn't - once treatment became available - ushered in the term in "our" context, and only in the context of not using a condom.

That is something that happens regularly, but certainly not every time. At some point, I chose a different term; the "connection" I sometimes go on about, and your term is even better. From the Oxford: "characterized by the belief that the parts of something are interconnected and can be explained only by reference to the whole." Thanks.

Completely true: There is nothing as fulfilling as sharing one's life with a man you truly love with all your heart and soul, in all aspects of life (including the sexual aspect). Next month will be the 17th anniversary of the passing of my best friend, my lover, my life-partner, my 'everything'. Sharing sex in the fuckjoints is one thing; having it all is the most wonderful fantastic event that can happen to - well - any human being. I miss him ....

Well, that's a new one for me ... maybe arising out of my disinclination to have anything to do with women? What I can say is, that notion of a raw bottom having any association whatsoever to fertility (and thus female-ness) has never entered my mind.

Same thing happened in Chicago. What is now Steamworks was orginally the Unicorn tubs. For some reason Unicorn didn't last long at all, and Steamworks picked up a perfectly good fuckjoint, and made it even better. Sounds like the same business-model to me.

Look at it from the management's point of view: If some guys are bringing in illegal stuff, the place could get shut down. I'd lay you 10 to 1 that's the reason ....

Sure there is: anonymous fucking removes all the barriers we normally associate with interacting with others. We neither know nor care to know their names, what their issues are, what their lives are like, on and on. We only care that they're our sexual brothers-in-the-life needing what we have - and we need what they have. Other than the most basic human instincts; behaving decently, not harming others, etc, is all we need to observe. This is particularly obvious in the fuckjoints, where a T can rut in Hole after Hole - a form of "connection" or even validation for both the T and b. I wouldn't call it "dehumanizing", as Mammut does above: I see it the opposite way. It's completely "humanizing" to share our sexual depravities with each other. All the cultural bullshit gets checked in the locker, right along with our clothes. The act of celebrating our Lusts with other men - holding the same Lusts, one after the other, is an affirming, uplifting act that benefits and reinforces the 'personhood' of each guy. No names, no faces, often no talk at all - just the sexual exchange of expressing our basic sexual needs.

I think you should remain open to "love". I also think that getting involved in some non-sexual activities would help too, since that would focus your mind elsewhere. For instance: a club that reflects some of your other interests; there are social clubs for every interest under the sun - from gardening to stamp-collecting to cars to politics to literature to playing card-games to dancing to anything you have some interest in. You can meet other, new people, and some you will like and enjoy. Of course, some you won't, but that's ok. It's the establishing connection to other folks that's important, and they don't have to be "gay" to work. That said, some will be though. Withdrawing, after the kind of disappointment you've suffered, will only deepen the negative feelings, and who needs to sit and stew in their own juices? No one !!! Get out there socially, be open to new friends, and when love begins to develop again, you'll be better able to accommodate it. My best wishes to you, GyroLover ... let us know how you're progressing.

The original post is now just less than a month old. The war has spread, the Islamic countries (save Saudi/Kuwait) are arming groups of stand-in's for Iran, which we hear only tangentially now, given the election season here in the US. Well over half the oceangoing shipping from the Far East to the Western countries is now diverting around the Horn of Africa, to avoid risk to the ships, which is only natural. That makes everything more expensive world-wide. Mr. Netanyahoo remains even more firmly against any shred of responsible behavior in the destroyed areas, let alone the long-awaited Two State Solution, and made it clear that unless and until he's removed from office, the carnage, destruction of infrastructure will continue unabated. I know the President is concerned about his impending reelection; he needs every vote he can get, including the liberal Jewish folks in the US. The other day Bernie Sanders issued an excoriating rebuke of the Prime Minister of Israel, which reflects substantial opinions around the globe. Nettie is obviously hoping for a Trump victory in November, and thumbing his nose at our President in the meantime. This past Sunday, Zacharia (of CNN) interviewed a number of highly placed office-holders in Arab States, and there appears to be very little "wiggle-room" in their Iranian-sponsored statements. While we here in the US are embroiled in all the quadrennial political mish-mash, Israel continues it's war of annihilation, despite world-wide condemnation. I am losing hope that this can be sorted out in time to avoid a general war in the Middle East, with the US getting sucked into all the mishigas.

That's still there. An "upscale" used furniture store called Decades. and the parking area directly in front is where the cruisers park, I'm up early, and usually walk a mile before getting on with the day. I know the cars by heart: The Buick convertible is always there ... the little black VW is almost always there. The ratty old Chev pickup is often there, and some guy has a Ferrari that's often there. That lot is full by 6am, and mostly empty by 6:30. I'm assuming they're mostly guys on their way to work, stopping off for a quickie first. They still go behind the building, and remnants of the fence behind Decades is still standing, but guys that don't want to walk around the corner for sex just leave RR, cross directly to that fence, "step-through" the holes in that wooden fence, and fuck. So, it's a direct route from the front door of RR, across the vacant lot, over to the back of Decades. At one time, there was a private home there, but that's long gone now. The business (on the corner) across the street became a "Zen" business for a while, and they had gates across their parking lot which they closed and locked at night. The parking lot immediately N of that is now very exposed to the street, and I haven't seen guys fuck over there for quite a while - there's simply no "cover" anymore. I'm assuming you mean the "Patio" bar, and the far end of RR, affectionately known as Pig Alley these days. The name sticks, but the action has disappeared - only very gradually beginning to resurface: a guy sucking Cock in a corner, maybe another one in a different corner, but nothing like when you couldn't even walk through for all the guys fucking/sucking back there. Up until recently, a guy simply couldn't worm his way through - now, it's an easy stroll. I used to see the Mayor over there occasionally ... Now, there's a food-truck in the parking lot of the next business N of RR (it's a framing shop) - little tables & chairs, guys eating, talking, hooting & hollering. The architect's building on the SW corner of 4th & 15th used to have a very active parking lot, but that's been shut down too. I knew a lady who worked in an adjacent business, she would always complain about guys shitting behind a clump of palm trees next to the parking lot, and the detritus left by the guys fucking in that parking lot was really nasty; no wonder the owner closed down that parking lot - really short-sighted by the guys that fucked there. Who did they think would come pick up after them, if they couldn't be bothered? That lady would arrive for work around 6:30, and more often than not there would still be guys in that parking lot. You may remember an old gas station across the street from Decades: For a while it was a garden shop, now it's a tarted up Lawn-art supply shop. High fences, locked gates, and the late-night crowd breaks in to fuck over there (lots of 'cover') anyway. So, other than inside RR, guys are fucking themselves by being so careless about their "detritus". No one wants to pick all that shit up every morning. There's one more quotient: The housing prices have gone through the roof in the immediate area. Houses that sold a few years ago for 80, 90K have been selling for 450, 500K recently. That means the newbies aren't going to put up with the noise, traffic, and particularly the mess, late night traffic, all of that. I'm not all that hopeful that RR will ever return to the old ways.

This thread kinda got away .... just saw your reply, and thanks. Yes, I agree, I've read the Stannard book, and thought it well worth the read. Thanks.

To me, the words Breed/Breeding mean a raw Cock pumps Sperm up a bottom's Hole. If the Top fucks a Hole, but doesn't actually Breed, it's called "rut" or rutting" - at least where I come from, and yes, I know the bottoms only want the first definition - but they don't have to cum every time they take a load either.

Good choice for accommodations ... If you're going to be driving from Inn Leather up to - well - anything else, as you drive N on Federal, be sure to turn left (West) on either 6th St or 8th St. If you miss those, you'll be shunted over closer to the beaches, which is the opposite direction you'll want to go. Turning left on either 6th or 8th will lead you to NE 3rd in (I think 3) blocks, when you should turn right (or N) and as soon as you cross the rr tracks you'll come to Sunrise Blvd, where you should turn left (W). It so happens that after the tracks, the street turns East for one block and you'll wind up on NE 4th, which will turn into Wilton Manors Drive a few blocks North (just over the bridge, near Ft. L. High School), in case you're headed up to Crisco Heights and all the gay nightlife. Slammer is at 321 W Sunrise, and you'll only be about 5 or 6 blocks from it. At night, Sunrise can turn into a race track, so get in the far right lane fairly quickly. After Andrews Ave (zero-hundred E/W) a fairly small sign saying 321 will appear, and you turn right, into their parking lots then. There are off-duty cops that guard the fenced lots, and they always appreciate a couple of bucks. When you're done at Slammer, make a U turn at the first available after exiting the parking lots. Be sure to wait for enough space - the West-siders can be really heavy on the gas pedal. Stay in the right-hand lane, which will lead you a bit past 4th ave, to an entry lane southbound onto US 1 Southbound, and just after the tracks you previously crossed: there's a large overhead sign directing you South. Good luck !!!

Placing the New Testament in an understandable place would be enhanced by comparing it's contents with the contemporaneous writings that were culled out of the N.T. at the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE. One is altered materially, one still exists largely as a recorded collection of the sayings of one man. In one, there is plenty of magic added in. In the other, the Gospel of Mary contains some hilarious magic*. *one "fer-instance": As a little kid, Jesus was playing in a mud puddle with his friends, and they were making little mud animals (birds, 4-footed animals, etc). When Mary called him to come in for lunch or whatever, all the little mud critters Jesus made came to life - but the other kid's animals didn't. The mud birds flew away, and the mud dogs/cats/mules/whatever ran away. It's a fun read.

Thanks for that update, AlwaysOpen ... Can't depend on me to stay up all damn night though ... those days are in the rear-view mirror.

Agreed. It's disappointing not to know what's going on over there. Not very long ago at all, you could stop in for a beer and a fuck almost as soon as they opened. Even the bartenders (when asked) give different versions of why it is. One bartender in the "patio' bar said "I don't give a shit what guys do back here". One in the front bar parried my same question entirely. Lately, I've seen some Cocksucking (like 2 or 3 pairs of guys) going on by the pool table (which used to be covered with a sheet of plywood and what appeared to be a vinyl covering, and you couldn't walk around it for all the guys bent over the table, taking loads. I've stopped by after hitting Slammer, just to sniff the wind. Again, a couple of guys sucking Cock back in Pig Alley (soon to be re-named Chicken Alley) as late as 20 minutes to closing time (2am). Yes, it's Florida's version of "winter" here, but the temps seldom all that cold. Occasionally the nights dip into the high 40's, but that's rather seldom. I will mention that the crowds have definitely diminished since Pig Week ... when it was jammed with guys fucking each other. There are groups of guys that know each other - buddies - all having a good time blabbing away. Maybe somebody made a "business decision" that will prove an error ... I just don't know either. I'd like to hear what's going on over there too. It used to be so much fun - but it's not anymore - just another run-down gay bar.

I agree with much of your post. Interestingly though, a Roman-era ruin in Palestine was excavated a few years ago, dating from that period. Most of Pilate's (full) name was found inscribed on one of the column's bases. If not for Pilate's presence in the New Testament, he would be completely forgotten - but there actually is a non-Christian bit proof that Pilate was indeed present in the area, and at that time. I saw a photo of it in Architectural Review a few years ago; it was quite clearly him. Actually though, it was a common sign of respect to wash someone's feet. They all wore sandals, the roads were all dirt or sand, so feet got really grungy back then. Thus, if/when Jesus performed that act - it proves only that his humanity, his humbleness, was completely intact. To the rest, it is somewhat interesting that whoever he particularly "loved" got washed away too ... which would be John, author of the 4th Gospel. Less certainly the other two attributed to him. They're the fortunate ones, who sensed the presence of bullshit in the religion, but also sensed the intrinsic value of the original Message. The question though, is faith in what ? Faith in the basic goodness of humanity? Faith in a basic wickedness? Faith in magic? Faith in reason? Faith in one's intellectual ability to reason? Faith, in and of itself, is an abstract noun, which means nothing with out the noun associated with faith. We can have faith in this, faith in that, faith that the sun will come up in the morning. Thus, it's the subject of that faith - whatever it may be - that earns either respect or dismissal in our minds. I have faith that the sun will come up, and my car will start in the morning. I believe that being as faithful to the original Message of Jesus, as well as other magnificently moral teachers throughout history is an important part of living my life. However, I have no faith in magic. Thus, "faith" compounded with required belief in magic, makes no sense to me at all.

I wonder how many thought-leaders we have lost (or never even heard from), due to the repressions of Organized Religion - the Ancient Enemy. In school, I had to take jobs as musician in a number of churches (a night of beers with the guys wasn't cheap), and the pastor of one of them was a totally repressed gay man. It's hard to describe what a shadow of a man he'd become when he gave in to the repressions. His wife was a corpulent unhappy shadow of a woman, His kids were washed-out looking timid little bundles of nerves. It was a truly tragic sight. And he would just rail against gays from the pulpit. For what, I wonder. To be part of that which ruined his life? One Sunday it just got to be more than I cared to listen to, and I just walked out - and I never did find out who played the closing hymn, because it sure as hell wasn't me.

Thank you for the response, ErosWired. What did Jesus almost certainly say, and more than once? 1. Feed the hungry. 2. House the homeless. 3. Clothe the naked. 4. Visit the sick. 5. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. There are more attributions, of course, but these 5 are direct quotes retold in several of the Gospels. None of that requires belief in magic. None of that requires suspension of reason. None of that requires anything more than basic, human decency - that still, small, voice within each of us.

It sounds to me like you worry about things you don't need to concern yourself with. Some guys are taller than me, some guys are shorter than me, which is why my sling is easily/instantly adaptable to any body-length. It's up to me to insure the sling is adjusted perfectly for the alignment, etc. I think one of the big plusses about a sling is, the bottom can either watch, or close his eyes and fantasize - whatever he wants to do. They usually like to watch though, and I like them to watch me too. Until I'm sure he's ok, I watch them closely for signs of distress (eye dilation, pulse, uncontrolled bodily reactions, for instance). I consider those to be my duty to the bottom (as well as the fuck, of course), and the better job I do with alignment of the gear, the better the fuck for both of us. Really? Of course he wants to look at you, and more. Of course you're attractive. Who gives a hoot about the lighting? If you kiss him, do it in French. If he actually didn't want any of those, he'd either hood you, or wouldn't be there. It's the Top's responsibility to make it as pleasurable as possible for you, which is how the Top also receives the most pleasure. Unless he gets down on one knee and offers you a ring, it's a bit too much concern about ancillary stuff. I think too many bottoms worry too much about stuff they don't need to worry about. You do know you're a fantastic fuck, don'tcha ?

I guess it depends. At home, I like them in the sling, tip of the backbone juuuuust over the edge of the sling so their Hole is completely available. If it's comfortable enough for the bottom, I clip the ankle loops to the chains adjacent to his head, thus offering his Hole in the most exposed, appealing way. It doesn't work very well for really tall guys though. I have a small round metal stool with the post going into threaded receptacle, so I can adjust my height relative to the Hole easily. Thus after the "getting to know you a little bit" part: If we're fucking on a plane surface - like a bed or fuckbench - I like a bottom on his hands and knees to: 1. turn his head to either side (whichever is most comfortable for him) - 2. lay his shoulders down on the bed/fuckbench/flat surface, keeping his head turned - 3. arch his back in a concave fashion, so as much of his belly is also on the plane-surface, which places his Hole in the highest possible position relative to his body - 4. spread his knees as wide as possible (and still comfortable). Thus, I wind up with an elevated Hole, higher than the rest of his body, staring me in the face, and not much else. The rest of the bottom's body somewhat "recedes" into the background, with his Hole elevated, thrust outward towards my mouth (and eventually my Cock), enhancing the focus totally on the Hole. In the fuckjoints, I don't have that kind of control, so I come as close to I can without bothering the guys Breeding on either side of me. That wouldn't be fair to the other Breeders.

I haven't yet ... haven't heard from any guy who has, either. For me, nothing beats Slammer ... Clubhouse II can be fun too though, and graaaaaaadually Ramrod is beginning to recover from the Breeding Ban ... seems to be taking too long though. A day-pass at Inn Leather is always fun ... but the tunnel is closed this week, through Saturday. At least the cranes putting up that high-rise won't fall down on people stuck in their cars, like last time ....