PReP Ignorance

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Insidemenow said:

There's a new version of Truvada being used for prep too. Less chance of liver problems.  Ask your foctor about Descovy if you are on prep.

I personally am in the Descovy study.  It started about 3 months ago and will last almost 3 years.  Gilead enrolled 5,000 people in the study, but at this point I am 99% sure the study is closed to new people (they reached the 5,000 people), and it won't be approved for use as a PrEP alternative until the effectiveness has been tested (3 years away).  I don't know if I'm on Descovy or the placebo, which is Truvada.  One of the long term side effects of Truvada is bone density loss after years of use, and that is one of the main side effects Descovy aims to reduce if it's equally effective.  Supposedly, if study members are converting to poz at a higher rate on Descovy than on Turvada they will end the study, but hopefully it is equally effective with lower long term side effects.  Time will tell - same as with hiv drugs and any other medicine improvements.  

[Rocker12]

On 2017-06-11 at 5:48 AM, Leatherman667 said:

If they could come up with a prevention for Hep C now it would be great. In time.

At least Hep C can be usually easily cured.

[Leatherman667]

1 hour ago, Rocker12 said:

At least Hep C can be usually easily cured.

I know a guy who died from it. 

[GermanFucker]

I really appreciate the difference between a well-informed, fact-based statement like this

"One of the long term side effects of Truvada is bone density loss after years of use, ...."

as compared to

"Westerner people specially US people listen to a lot of rubbish with false stats because it's all about money."

I think we should be honest and realize that PrEP is one additional option as a prevention tool, is not a replacement for condoms, it's not a panacea and it actually isn't for everyone. If you have two (tested) neg guys in a relationship, where they fuck around outside their relationship once a month or so and they use condoms doing so (because they don't want to give their partner one of the things that Truvada can't prevent like gonorrhea), the risk of contracting HIV due to condom failure is negligible. In that case PrEP is probably not worth the potential long-term side effects and it is not a cost-effective solution, either. There are studies (Australia etc.) as to that point.

Truvada is a potent medication and for some it can (but not necessarily must) stress the kidney and bones after long-term use (the vast majority will have no problems, however). But Truvada PrEP a good solution for men at a high risk of becoming infected. In that case the equation is clear: The benefits of not contracting HIV far outweigh potential side effects. As do the cost savings of PrEP vs. HIV treatment, at least in the case of Truvada (unfortunately not for new drugs like Descovy), where the patent has expired or is just about to (depending on your country).

Because you have to keep in mind that the officially listed prices are not the "real" prices it costs to make the drugs or that Truvada is traded for between manufacturers and insurance companies.

Here in Germany, health insurance will not cover the cost of PrEP. But due to a special arrangement between Pharmacies specializing on HIV patients and a maker of generics (Hexal AG, a subsidiary of Novartis), instead of paying the catalog price, you can get it for the same price that health insurance companies pay for it after rebates. Which is 50 Euros a month or 1.79 Euros per pill / day, i.e. $60 / $2.15 at current exchange rates. And these are first world, high income country prices. If would of course be much, much cheaper to manufacture the pills in India.

Still, because of the - low, but existant - risk of side effects and the necessity to make sure that the person is acutally HIV negative before prescribing what would otherwise be bad, insufficient HIV therapy, it is best to go through the proper channels and have a doctor monitor you bloodwork (kidney etc.) regularly, instead of just getting a Truvada clone from India over the internet.

In short: Truvada PrEP isn't necessarily the most sensible choice for everyone. Probably not even for the majority of gay men. But it is a great choice for sluts, sex pigs and unrepentent barebackers of all strides. So the vast majority of men on this site (except for the bug chasers and HIV fetishists, but that's ok).

[GermanFucker]

P.S.:

To sort out the confusion regarding HepC: With new treatment options like Sofosbuvir, Hepatitis C cure rates have vastly improved. Where before you might have had to undergo half a year of a grueling med regimen including interferon to have a 50% chance of being cured, it is now more than 90% in half the time. But it still depends on the (geno-) type of Hepatitis C. So both sides are true. With the new drugs that have become available over the last 5 years HepC treatment has greatly improved for the vast majority. Some people battling HepC for for decades have finally been able get rid of it. However there are still some types of Hepatitis C that are more tricky / resistant to Sofosbuvir. Also some might still die because of existing liver damage suffered before the new options became availabe.

 

(too late for edit, moderators feel free to merge posts)

 

[Guest Porthos]

I'm poz undetectable without a blip for almost 10 years and yet there are guys on PrEP that won't have sex with me because I'm poz.....That's ignorant....On the other hand the more educated guys are getting the message. A friend of mine who was a condom nazi, hooked up with me recently. After a few glasses of wine we ended up in his bed. Next thing I know hes sliding his raw cock in my ass....Fuck I always wanted his cum....Unfortunately I never told him I was poz....A week later I got the nerve to tell him I was poz undetectable...He thanked me for telling him and said that as long as I was undetectable he had no problem...He said he never realized how great bareback sex was...The next time we hooked up we had incredibly passionate sex...He even took my raw cock and by the end of the night we had swapped each others fluids

[Guest takingdeepanal]

On 1/8/2018 at 1:43 AM, skylon said:

I'm poz undetectable without a blip for almost 10 years and yet there are guys on PrEP that won't have sex with me because I'm poz.....That's ignorant....On the other hand the more educated guys are getting the message. A friend of mine who was a condom nazi, hooked up with me recently. After a few glasses of wine we ended up in his bed. Next thing I know hes sliding his raw cock in my ass....Fuck I always wanted his cum....Unfortunately I never told him I was poz....A week later I got the nerve to tell him I was poz undetectable...He thanked me for telling him and said that as long as I was undetectable he had no problem...He said he never realized how great bareback sex was...The next time we hooked up we had incredibly passionate sex...He even took my raw cock and by the end of the night we had swapped each others fluids

I'd gladly take your raw cock - and come back for more!

[BrazilianWandering]

Here in Brazil I'd say it's 50/50. There are guys who know about it and take it, and some guys who have no idea about it. PEP has been around for longer and is more commonly known as a "morning after" treatment if you bareback and feel suspicious about the partner. PrEP isn't as known, but it's getting better as people are spreading the good news. I'm going to start taking them in the near future probably. It's all free anyway... which I'm really thankful for, reading the stuff from American users.

Edited April 1, 2018 by BrazilianWandering

[Leather69]

PReP is now available in Australia on our PBS scheme as of 1 April. That means a months supply will cost AUD $39.50 a month for waged and $6.50 for those on benefits.

[Guest takingdeepanal]

1 hour ago, Leather69 said:

PReP is now available in Australia on our PBS scheme as of 1 April. That means a months supply will cost AUD $39.50 a month for waged and $6.50 for those on benefits.

And no, this is NOT an April Fools' Day announcement!

[M4mnow2]

Wow, some great view points and heated conversations! For those of us who have elected, or have it available to us to take, do so because we want to continue barebacking at a lower risk. I started 5 weeks ago, after my 7 days I wanted to get fucked ... 5 weeks later I’m still searching for a top!. in the end I went to a free health clinic, my doctor was totally unaware and I decided I needed to manage my own health. It took guts to walk to the clinic and ask, but easier than having a conversation with my doctor that I was hiv positive. I am confused regarding protection thou, at the clinic they tell me it’s around 85%, everything else I read says it’s higher, alas, should I convert, at least I know that I did what I could to protect myself.

For those guys who say they can’t get it in their country, do as others have commented, check around, you can get it, and it’s cheap, you just have to spend some time searching.

All weekend I’ve been reading about guys wanting to convert and tops converting unaware guys. It has, admittingly, pissed me off, especially the poz guys not being honest, that said, perhaps I should be thanking you, for you are one of the reasons I’m on PrEP. For the guys who want to convert ... wow. There’s conversation in this thread about longevity of being on meds, damage etc. at least for those of us on PrEP we can decide when we want to stop and I’m not implying to convert! 

To the poz guys who take meds ... a huge THANK YOU, you are looking out for yourself and others. I admittingly have stayed away from guys like you, due to fear, yes I read and yes my understanding is greater and today wouldn’t question having one of you top me. Think my opinion of tops on meds has elevated, I now think of you guys as in control, huge turn on for me!

[tallslenderguy]

On 4/2/2018 at 8:21 AM, M4mnow2 said:

To the poz guys who take meds ... a huge THANK YOU, you are looking out for yourself and others. I admittingly have stayed away from guys like you, due to fear, yes I read and yes my understanding is greater and today wouldn’t question having one of you top me. Think my opinion of tops on meds has elevated, I now think of you guys as in control, huge turn on for me!

As a poz guy who lost my brother to AID's in the 80's, i'm very grateful for the advances of medical science when it comes to treating and preventing HIV.  i am happy to see pop up ads on sites like Grindr, encouraging guys to get tested and other ads informing about PreP.  When i became informed, i actually went to a doctor with the intent of getting on PreP and found out i was poz and pretty much immediately went on meds and am now undetectable. 

i'd like to see the disease eradicated. If you have ever seen someone dying of AID's, it's pure, unadulterated suffering and ultimately debilitating. To me debilitating=not having sex, so i wonder at those who chase and purposely do not treat the infection? i think that their is a disconnect about the ultimate results. i get that some people are suicidal, but that doesn't strike me as a good or sexy thing, nor does purposely trying to give someone a disease (of any sort). 

[fitdudecgn]

PreP is now becoming popular in Germany, too. A pharmacist decided to offer the pills at around €80 per month. Don't know how he is doing it since prices are heavily regulated here.

Things have become much more relaxed ever since PreP came around!

[6811283]

On 4/2/2018 at 11:21 AM, M4mnow2 said:

I am confused regarding protection thou, at the clinic they tell me it’s around 85%, everything else I read says it’s higher, alas, should I convert, at least I know that I did what I could to protect myself.

The 85% figure means the reduction in infections in the entire study group -- including those who didn't take the meds properly. If you take the pills daily, the risk is reduced by at least 99%. And HIV is relatively hard to transmit to begin with (a single time bottoming unprotected for a poz top carries a risk of about 1.4%)... when you reduce that by 99% you end up with 0.014%.

It's not quite zero, of course... there have been a very few cases (4 or 5?) where someone taking Prep correctly got HIV. And in those cases the guys had very low viral loads and had no trouble becoming undetectable. You run more risk of getting hit by a bus on the way to the sex club.

Prep is a really good thing. Take it and don't worry.

[Guest descartes70817]

Hopefully the world will realise that prevention is cheaper than uncontrolled spread and all HIV treatments will be fre everywhere. Meanwhile knowing that undetectable equals not infectious makes me feel a lot more comfortable about fucking bareback more freely.