Venues Closing

[dickluva]

I noticed the 2 Clubs that hosted Nasty Kink Pigs NKP Macho parties in San Bernadino, Club FA, and North Hollywood Threshold LA, closed according to NKP. The last Macho parties were in February. I value my sobriety, so I never went.  I hate that now I don't have the choice.

I think I saw on here, BreedingZone, that Nob Hill Theater in San Francisco closed recently too(August 2018) after 50 fuckin' years.

Chicago lost Manscountry in 2017. Sadly, the owner died. Chicago lost Bijou Theater too.

I think all the XXX theaters in NYC are gone. I worked at Gaiety, & enjoyed David.

I think a big part of closings is lack of business, or is it politics, or combo?

Saint Louis lost my favorite club "Faces" like fifteen years ago. Lack of business. As I recall, the door man was stabbed to death by a tweeker, and then attendance fell dramatically. Faces had deadly violence the first time I was there 1988(underage event). When the doorman was stabbed to death(2003?) in front of patrons it made front page local news. I heard within six months of the stabbing the owners received electric bill for +$10,xxx. The power company discontinued service, probably all beer & liquor deliveries ceased too. They had a darkroom that was so HOT & fun, butt i kept lo?sing my wallet in there.

One of my friends in the Insurance business says nobody would underwrite a club of thousands square feet today. Men I knew who were partners/owners in big dance clubs got them insured under umbrella policies that covered multiple businesses that together did $$$ a year.

My point is=  we the pervs must frequent these parties, and venues if we want them to continue in business.

R.I.P.

[dickluva]

So, 442 in SF closing March 2019 too?

Chicago may lose Jackhammer March 2019 too?

Is this a co-incidence?

[alwaysready]

this could all be coincidence, unlikely as it seems. or it could be a result of more places gays can meet. perhaps concern with alcoholism is part of it. also, owners often raise the rent like a gazillion % b/c they feel they can get a higher rent (though not that high probably) with a less...problematical tenant. I think it is a combo of things. would like to hear from guys in each of these places who have some info.

[VersAlwaysLooking]

I've always struggled to understand the economics of places such as the ones listed.   Simply put, the real estate occupied by these venues can likely always generate far more revenue with really any other successful business.  Factors working against success include (not al apply to each business):

1. Real Estate that is in use just a very small percent of the time 

2.Multi-shift staffing (if not 24x7) with extended slow time periods. 

3. Relatively low cost of entry which results in limited revenue even during well attended periods. 

4. Booming city centers resulting increased occupancy and operating costs.  (magnified in situations where neighborhood has gentrified)

5. Limited customer base.  Gays are a small percentage of the population and only a small percentage of gays actually attend these venues regularly. 

6. Competition from far more efficient (and free) methods of finding sex.  (Hi Grindr)

7. Mainstreaming and broader acceptance of the gay family unit

 

I don't think there are any politics at play.  Just pure  economics. 

 

[Guest grubbysubby]

It’s an interesting question... I live in Brisbane, Australia, and the city had four SOPV’s leading up to one closing Jan 2018... I always figured the economics of this city just do not support that many venues. As has been suggested, the market is already diluted thanks to BBRT and similar sites... and then to have too much choice can be bad!

[bredbiyou]

3 hours ago, alwaysready said:

it could be a result of more places gays can meet

I think this is the biggest reason for the decline of these venues.

In my city, we've gone from three bathhouses down to one. And even it has switched from being open 24/7 down to 14 hours/day M-F, and 24 hours on weekends.

I think there's a negative feedback loop at play here. Because guys have more options available to them than in the past, fewer guys need to go to bathhouses in order to find sex. And because the baths aren't as busy as they used to be, for those of us who still want to go to the baths, it's sometimes more difficult to find what we're looking for. And after you've spent $31 to wander a deserted bathhouse a few times, you start to become more selective about when and how often you go. So then there's even fewer guys attending on a regular basis.

Perhaps it would be too unwieldy to implement, but I've been wondering if a graduated pricing system might be a partial solution.

This is just a rough idea, but I'm envisioning something like this:

• below 10% capacity, $5 rooms
• 11-20% capacity, $10 rooms
• 21-30% capacity $15 rooms
• 31-40% capacity $25 rooms
• 41-80% capacity $35 rooms
• 81-100% capacity $45 rooms

For context, I'm basing my suggested rates off the current rate at my local bathhouse, which is $31 for a 6-hour room. In other cities, those rates might be too high or too low, but I think the overall idea would still apply.

I feel like the three lowest tiers offer enough incentive to ensure that the bathhouse would rarely - if ever - be empty. The next two tiers straddle the current rate, which should allow management to stay close to current profit margins. As for the upper tier... while I would balk at paying $45 for a room under normal circumstances, I wouldn't mind paying that much at all if I knew the club was nearly at capacity. That higher rate would help offset the club's loses from the $5-10 rooms. I haven't given much thought into how to work lockers into the equation, but I'm sure something comparable could be done.

I recognize that the $5 tier might be too low to prevent people from using it as a cheap way to access showers and a bed for a few hours. That one might not be tenable in the real world, but I do like having it as a way practically guaranteeing there will always be at least a few guys there. I also recognize that my proposal would make things more complicated for staff, having to be so mindful of exactly how many patrons were there at any given time. It would also require patrons to have a certain amount of trust that the club was being honest about the numbers, although there's probably a way of addressing that with technology.

Anyway, I'd be really curious to hear what others - especially those with a background in the business - think of my idea. I love bathhouses. They've played an important role in my life, and they've played an important role in our communities' histories. I want to ensure they continue to survive long into the 21st century.

Edited March 9, 2019 by bredbiyou
missing words

[dickluva]

Cum to think of it Gaydotcom used to be a great place to get a hookup too. The GLBT website that replaces gaydotcom today, March 2019,  has not been updated since July 2018. Thanks for reading this thread.

[dickluva]

Sad to read Atlanta's Manifest4u is closed now, temporarily, looking for new location.  I had a great time at the P3 party at M4U in May 2019. I think I wrote about my adventure on BZ. XOX

[Pozlover1]

On 2/28/2019 at 6:19 PM, dickluva said:

I noticed the 2 Clubs that hosted Nasty Kink Pigs NKP Macho parties in San Bernadino, Club FA, and North Hollywood Threshold LA, closed according to NKP. The last Macho parties were in February. I value my sobriety, so I never went.  I hate that now I don't have the choice.

I think I saw on here, BreedingZone, that Nob Hill Theater in San Francisco closed recently too(August 2018) after 50 fuckin' years.

Chicago lost Manscountry in 2017. Sadly, the owner died. Chicago lost Bijou Theater too.

I think all the XXX theaters in NYC are gone. I worked at Gaiety, & enjoyed David.

I think a big part of closings is lack of business, or is it politics, or combo?

Saint Louis lost my favorite club "Faces" like fifteen years ago. Lack of business. As I recall, the door man was stabbed to death by a tweeker, and then attendance fell dramatically. Faces had deadly violence the first time I was there 1988(underage event). When the doorman was stabbed to death(2003?) in front of patrons it made front page local news. I heard within six months of the stabbing the owners received electric bill for +$10,xxx. The power company discontinued service, probably all beer & liquor deliveries ceased too. They had a darkroom that was so HOT & fun, butt i kept lo?sing my wallet in there.

One of my friends in the Insurance business says nobody would underwrite a club of thousands square feet today. Men I knew who were partners/owners in big dance clubs got them insured under umbrella policies that covered multiple businesses that together did $$$ a year.

My point is=  we the pervs must frequent these parties, and venues if we want them to continue in business.

R.I.P.

Theatair X, a modern, clean ABS with truck parking across from Louisville in Clarksville Indiana, has been having legal problems and raids for about a year. They added swing-open boards over the GH’s for a while and have since fastened them securely. New city laws forbid staying open after midnight and mandate the attendant must be able to see everyone in the place at all times. Large fines are amassing while the legal fight continues. I don’t know of any town or county around there that would love to have them move there. I predict it will be gone soon.

There are still about 4? in Louisville. I only frequent one, it has safe parking within sight of the door. It is run down and smells of lysol but I like it. During the day when I am likely to go, there are not many people there.

Hearsay evidence on Squirt about a couple of the others sounds very unappealing.

There are two out by Ft. Knox  on the two lane and another a ways down I-65. If I recall correctly it’s past  Elizabethtown but way before Bowling Green. 

Last I looked there were three in Lexington. 

[pigpozdad]

2 hours ago, dickluva said:

Sad to read Atlanta's Manifest4u is closed now, temporarily, looking for new location.  I had a great time at the P3 party at M4U in May 2019. I think I wrote about my adventure on BZ. XOX

I am really hoping that manifest reopens in a new spot. The vibe was great in that narrow warehouse unit. P3 is getting better and CU was actually overcrowded. Lets hope it comes back strong.

. I am orig from NYC and i saw clubs close over the years, or move into shared party spaces in leased clubs (Paddles, Rainbow, 38 st)

[ErosWired]

3 hours ago, Pozlover1 said:

and another a ways down I-65. If I recall correctly it’s past  Elizabethtown but way before Bowling Green. 

The one you’re referring to is at the Horse Cave interchange, exit 58. There’s no sign of it closing down any time soon. There’s actually another adult store on I-65 south of Elizabethtown, at Upton, but it’s strictly a store - no theater, booths, GHs, or any kind of private space. 

In fact, my nephew worked at the Upton store for a while, and he tells the story of a guy who came in, bought a large dildo with a suction cup end, went out to his car, suctioned the dildo to the hood in plain view of the interstate, and rode it nude until the cops came. 🙄