tallslenderguy

i have never thought of it from this angle. i think you make a great point about how the term "rape" has been "canted towards the insert partner." i don't feel i have ever been raped in this way. For me it is more about the frustration of communication. But i think you are right, there are some people who just do not seem to believe those who identify as Total Tops or total bottoms, then there are others that may believe it, but just refuse to accept or respect that they are not the droids they are looking for.

Yes, this. i see "labels" as a starting place, not an ending place. That they are a means of communicating. You identify as "versatile," so it makes perfect sense to me that you would "...feel the labels 'top' or 'bottom' and 'dom' or 'sub' are constricting," because that is not how you are. "It just means you and me have a lesser chance to be sexually compatible" Exactly. We may love and appreciate each other in many ways, but probably would not try to establish a sexual connection because we understand we are not sexually compatible. We cannot have that understanding if we ignore the "(self-) labeling" of another person because it is how they are trying to communicate who and how they are by using it.

We need words to communicate, 'labels' are a part of the communication process. For example, if one goes to the store to get a cucumber and ends up with a watermelon because everything was packaged and not labeled, you'd not get what you were looking for. People are packaged, we cannot tell just by looking at them whether they wanna fuck or be fucked or___________, so we use words and labels to covey or give a sense of who we are and what we want/need. Labels are not perfect, but they at least give us some direction, a starting place. The challenge i have often encountered with versatile guys (and sometimes bottoms) is them wanting me to fuck or in some way penetrate them. i even try to clarify in some of my profiles: "total bottom, i am not versatile." i sometimes refer guys to the Urban Dictionary, it has a decent definition of 'total bottom.' It seems like some guys just do not grasp or believe there is such a thing as someone who is Total Top or Total bottom. my guess is it's because since some guys are indeed wired for both, they just cannot relate to someone not being as they are and they believe everyone can be like them. It seems to me, a lot of time, it's just a matter of some not taking another at face value. i'm sure not looking for a unicorn. i'm looking for a "Top" and that has changed over time to "Total Top" because i really am looking for a TOP, not someone who wants to flip with me... ever. i do not care about how they look, age, etc.. I do not think thats anything like a unicorn. I am trying to avoid shape shifters lol.

i read a profile today on a site i frequent that read: "...no top or bottom labels, i prefer spontaneous...." In his profile though, he still identified as "versatile." This sort of triggers me, i suspect it comes from having escaped a religious culture that insisted there is no such thing as being gay, that it is a choice. It took me a long time to process out of that web. i do not 'know' that being a "total bottom" is a similar situation for me, but it sure feels like it, and it brings back feelings of being unseen when some gay guys seem to believe there is no such thing as 'me' (i.e., a "total bottom"). i know i'm not alone in encountering this. i've read Total Tops who have encountered this as well as total bottoms. i usually won't even hook with a versatile guy unless i know him well enough to know he understands and accepts what it means for me to be total bottom. i take identifiers like "Total Top, total bottom, versatile, etc." at face value. If a guy uses one of those labels, i figure he knows himself better than i do. i'm put off by guys who seem to truly believe that being Total Top or total bottom or versatile is a choice, and imply that one is just being selfish. To me, it feels the same way as the religious people who say one is not really gay, just choosing that. i almost never encounter this from someone who identifies as Total Top or total bottom, it's something i encounter from versatile guys on a regular basis though... to the point where i often don't even try to connect with a versatile guy. i'm curious to read what others think about this? Do you put identifiers like "Top, bottom, versatile, etc." in the category of choice, or is it more just a matter of fact for you? For me, being "total bottom" is a lot more than a physical/sexual position, there's a complex psychological side to it, and i have come to see "Total Top" and "Versatile" the same way. i do subscribe to the spectrum theory when it comes to human sexuality, but for me it has not proven to be very fluid. i can trace my bottom/subish nature back to early childhood, so i do not see myself suddenly becoming top or versatile. Being bottom doesn't really feel like a "choice" to me, though i can choose what to do about how i feel, i still feel that way. How about you? How do y'all see this?

Maybe "ABS"? i've found adult stores to he a great way to hook in rural areas, rest stops as well. Of course that was pre Covid, haven't been to one since Covid started, but i imagine they are starting to open up again more recently. i've also had much more success with aps like Grindr in rural areas than in cities. Maybe also check out Squirt. i've been on Squrit for years and it has the local cruising areas listed. my experience is cruising areas are far better for hookup than aps are. Aps mostly get in the way of sex in my experience.

People are complex, eh? As some have noted, what makes an individual is a combination of nurture and nature and there are no clear lines as to where one begins and the other leaves off. Most of us have grown up in cultures that define things like "good, bad, deviant, etc.." Narrowing it down, i think a lot of gay guys find their nature is in conflict with their nurture. As you state it, there seems to be a part of you that wants a less than clean guy to cum and piss in you. my guess is that is in conflict with how you've been conditioned? i think a lot of us go through a time where we want to be forced to do the things we really want, even crave, because it's a way to get around the conditioning that has taught us we are "bad, deviant, etc.." i used to have an elaborate fantasy where a guy kidnapped me and forced me to be His bottom lover. At the time, i was married (to a woman) and still stuck in a religious web, believing i was 'broken and evil' because of my sexual needs and desires. Once i processed through and accepted myself, fantasies of being forced went away... for the most part. i still fantasize of a Top who feels free to penetrate me any time He wants/needs. A lot of those fantasies involve Him penetrating me when i am asleep. But none of those fantasies involve Him being mean, bullying or forceful, rather they are based on mutual understanding and acceptance of each others needs and desires. i also sitill desire (need?) what i have come to call "affectionate degradation/humiliation,' but again, it's never from a mean or bullying, forceful Mate, but affectionate. i believe a lot of what we experience in these different forms of conflict is our needs/desires are in conflict with our conditioning, but need/desire wins out, and despite the conflicting feelings, we are deeply affirmed.

No & No. i've expressed my views quite a bit about chasing and STI's on BZ, so my "no" answers will come as no surprise to those around here who know me. i've concluded that most of those who write about chasing are fantasizing or are ignorant, or some combination of the two. i do not think a desire or effort to become, or make other people sick, is rational. i believe even most the diehard chasers would have a change of heart once they are in the hospital gasping for breath from pneumonia when their HIV progresses to AIDs. i'm a critical care nurse, and have volunteered to take Covid poz patients since we opened a Covid unit at the hospital where i work in March 2020, i have over 1000 hours of experience taking care of Covid patients. From the start, there were elements of the Covid pandemic that were reminiscent of the AID's pandemic during the 80's. There is a percentage of healthcare workers who refused to care for Covid patients for a variety of reasons as there was during the early days of AID's when healthcare was still figuring things out. On my last rotation, i had a young patient with Covid and the first words out of her mouth when i was examining/admitting her were: "i wish i had gotten vaccinated." i have yet to have one Covid poz patient tell me they would choose the disease over the vaccine in hind sight. There are some who need the reality check of getting sick to sway their emotional disposition... and a desire to catch or transmit a disease is emotional, not rational, as are the arguments that are used to promote the idea.

When i first divorced (from marriage to a woman), i had a lot of dates with guys met online. Almost, to a person, each misrepresented himself about age/appearance. It almost became comical it was so usual. In my prior life, all i'd had was anonymous hook up sex, so i was looking for connection and relationship and being lied to from the start made that pretty challenging. I hit it off with one guy in particular when we were writing back and forth. i love the written word and he was great at expressing himself in writing. He was an actor so his pics were professionally taken and from and age where he weighed much less. i found him gorgeous, but when he opened his door when we met, he was so different from his pics that i found myself searching for any resemblance at all. He knew, but kept up the charade. i'd traveled a long way to meet him, he'd made dinner and had gotten tickets to a play for us. He was really sweet in one sense, but i just could not get past his blatant lying. i spent the night... in his guest room, it was awkward as hell. We went to a yoga class we'd planned on the next morning, and we parted after the class. When i returned home, he sent me a followup email asking for honest feed back. I was very diplomatic about telling him how his pics needed updating. He took me apart, limb by limb, in his reply. He was so venomous, he really hurt me... turns out he didn't really want honest feedback. About 8 months later, he sent me another email sort of apologizing and thanking me for my honesty, admitting that what i had written was true and thanking me for my honesty. He told me he'd been to the gym and had lost weight, etc.. But he had been so cruel and mean in his prior emails, trying to even the turf while in denial. When we had practiced yoga together before i left and i was pretty skinny and he said i was "emaciated" in his email where he asked me for honesty (among other things lol) in his attempt to compensate for his misrepresentation. He ended up showing a side of himself he couldn't really erase. i actually liked him, but even with the apology he was still exercising denial. i could have forgiven him his vitriol, but he glazed over it as if it hadn't happened. Haven't done much online dating since him, my online experiences with actually trying to meet someone for relationship have been dismal.

I appreciate the distinction and correction here, i should have put a qualifier in front of the word "sex." i agree that sex is not harmful in and of itself, but can be made harmful depending on lots of different factors. Your contributions don't t strike me as a 'ramble,' i think you add some great thoughts to the discussion. Particularly i appreciate your thoughts on how "Society vilifies things outside of their defined societal norms and values - deviation from these are by definition deviant." Indeed! Ethnocentricity can apply to sex as much as any other topic. "Society" is a cultural construct, eh?, and 'norms' are often not based on evidence (i find it hard for one to be gay and not be aware of this). Many in some religious circles still consider "gay" and "pedophile" synonymous. Laws supposedly written to protect can be used for violence in the hands of the violent, and some laws are simply wrong. i was arrested in 1998 for asking and undercover 'vice cop' if he wanted to fuck me. He was pretending to be gay as part of his job to entrap. i was then charged with a felony based on a 100 year old 'sodomy' law. 1998 was not that long ago. The judge, thankfully, literally laughed at the notion of it being a felony, but the prosecutor wanted my blood. The then attorney general of VA was of the same religious ilk that the last US vice president was from, and believed gay people to be 'deviant.' i think there are many who have never come up against a sector of culture like this. Many do not realize how, even in the year 2021, many believe that "God" is gonna send all gay people to hell. Many have beliefs where they think they would be doing "Gods" will to imprison (and worse) gay people. Yet, this same religious culture has stories in it's book (the bible) about taking a young girl and putting her in bed with bible hero King David in his old age to 'keep him warm.' It's often not so much the act that is frowned upon, but who is doing it. A lot of the age bias undercurrent in portions of our society is directed at gays.

i appreciate this well thought out reply. Society battles an age old dilemma of letter of the law vs spirit of the law. Laws are of course necessary, but courts exist for the purpose of interpreting those laws. Black and white simply does not work in the colorful, real world. i think a lot of gays have residual internalized homophobia that inclines towards seeking some semblance of acceptance from culture/s that still consider gay as perverse, so one latches onto anything that will 'prove' we're 'okay' (am talking about so much more than age considerations here). The emphasis should be on promoting protection of the individual, and that cuts both ways protecting 'innocence' and also protecting volition. The freedom to choose goes two directions, so kids (people) can only benefit from being informed about things like critical thinking and their right to say either "yes" or "no." i think a system that tests or measures an individuals ability to make decisions would be more fair and inclusive, but will probably never happen... it's just too complicated. So, a random age is picked and applied universally, whether it fits or not. The truth of it is, there are tons of people who endure sexual harm after they turn 18 (or what ever the magical socially determined age happens to be). The day before their 18th birthday one is protected as a child, the day of their birthday, it all changes. It's silly really, it takes no account of the individual. One can be harmed by sex at any age. Age is only one factor, not the only factor in determining maturity or competence.

Ditto what ErosWired wrote. For me, the primary point of bareback is to connect completely with another guy. For me, a condom is a barrier to complete connection. If a guy is fucking you for any length of time, as Eros points out, you're gonna get precum, even if he pulls out when he cums. i suppose if each gets into stuff like facials, there's still a 'connection' happening, but it doesn't work for me. i am deeply disappointed if a guy pulls out when he cums. It's not just the cum for me, it's the complete orgasm. i want him to have and release his full pleasure/orgasm into me. For me, His orgasm becomes mine in that sense, there's a transference where he 'impregnates' me with a part of himself. As for 'cleaning jazz out of' my hole. Hell no! i hold it in and absorb it. i want to keep that part of my top and let it become a part of me. lol, i guess y'all can see i've thought about this.

Hey Guys, just an update to anyone following this. The diabetes thing got my attention. i've always been pretty good with diet never been beyond a 'normal' BMI in my life. i got really strict with my diet after getting an A1c of 7.2 , in February 2021, which is officially diabetic. i am specially educated in reversing certain diseases through diet, type 2 diabetes among them (DM2), so went total Whole Food Plant Based Diet with no added oil (WFPBDNO), with a few cheat meals. For the most part, no animal and kept my daily fat intake under 20grams (fat is what causes DM2). i got another A1c two months later and had dropped it to 6.3, which is pre-diabetic. i stayed on the Biktarvy after talking with my ID doctor, and retested undetectable on all counts. Doesn't look like the BIktarvy was an issue for me, and i'm glad, it has a good record as a med and i have no issues with it from my labs.

One of the things i find challenges the process of meeting, or even just hooking up, is guys who are not specific. Another is guys who think their standards are universal. Specifics? Guys who write nothing about their self, desires or needs in their profile or when writing back and forth. Their profile says something like: "just looking for fun," or: "looking for a hot time," or "looking for hot guys, " or "must be handsome." i'm bemused by the number of guys who seem to think others automatically know and understand what their idea of each of those things is? Or worse, they assume their taste is universal? Another sort of variation on that theme is when guys say they are "great kissers," or "great cocksuckers," or ______________. i'm a cocksucker and say so, but i leave off the descriptor of "great" (or lousy lol) because i have sucked enough guys to know that each individual has a different idea of "great" or "lousy." Some like it hard, some like it soft, and the only way to know is if they find some way to communicate. Some think "great kissing" means swallowing your whole face, while others are more tentative and playful, i.e., some like it one way, others another way. i think some guys are afraid to reveal who they are and what they want or need. Others seem to believe others should just know? i know terms like Top, bottom, versatile are not perfect descriptors, but they are a starting place. i love guys who's profiles have details, guys who like to communicate before getting together. Personally, i think it's a waste of time to just get together with someone and "see what happens." lol, okay. done for now.

i typically don't pass up a chance to get penetrated.

Agreed, diet related disease does develop over a long period of time vs once infected by HIV, there's no reversal. On the other hand, that's a double edged sword. i probably had sex with >1000 guys before i contracted HIV. I.e., before being infected with HIV one is not adding to or building a chronic condition. Then there's the question about quality of life. Many would rather suffer the consequences of an unhealthy diet for the pleasure derived from what they eat, which has some comparisons to sex to me. Risk vs benefit and perceived quality of life. Then there's cost vs what is charged to factor into the equation: "A new gold-standard triple therapy for H.I.V. has just made its debut in Africa. It costs $75 a year. In the United States, many people with H.I.V. take an almost identical therapy. It costs $39,000 a year. The United States is infamous for its high cost of health care — and H.I.V. medicines are a big part of that. Plenty of drugs carry outrageous prices: EpiPens, insulin, cancer treatments, even some antibiotics. But no class of medicines is more scandalously expensive than for H.I.V. These medicines are by far the largest item in Medicaid’s drug budget, the third largest for the insurance exchanges and the fifth largest for commercial insurers." [think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/18/opinion/pricing-hiv-drugs-america.html

Ha, no not an apples with apples comparison (or meant to be), of course there are significant differences between eating cock and pizza. Though, since you mention things like cost and longevity, ongoing dependence on meds/intervention. Kidney failure is number 10 on the WHO list of top 10 diseases that cause death. It's largely a preventable vascular disease related to diet. Without diealysis, a person with kidney failure will die, it's not reversible either. Cost is about $72,000 a year (not counting the meds that often accompany renal failure), which is substantially more than HAART, two to three times more expensive.

As a bottom, the notion of 'average cock' never enters my mind. Sure, i notice size, can't help that, but it's not a criteria of selection or desire for me. "Cock" to me has come to mean so much more than an organ between a guys legs. For me it is even more a psychological make up, drive, need. To me, the things that define a "Top" are His desire/need to penetrate, inseminate, and in a very real sense, impregnate with Himself. And His 'self' is so much more that His penis. i have had FB's with little penises (like 3 inches), who i adored and could not wait to be bred by. They were the Yang to my yin. Opposites attract and can bond if the chemistry is there. i rarely have an ongoing thing with a versatile guy. i may like or love them, but they are versatile and sometimes flip into bottom mode. There have been exceptions, when a versatile guy understands i am total bottom and he knows to only contact me when He is in top mode. i swear i am not making this up: it's the size of a Top's need and desire to Top that has the most affect on me, not the size of His penis. i have had guys with smaller penises open me wide, physically and psychologically.

The lines sure seem to have blurred to me too. i think it may be that stereotypes are just not as solid as they used to be? There was a time when fem was equal to gay, but not anymore. Also, i've know more than a few guys in open marriages where their wives knew they were having sex with guys, it's possible they could be Bi and functionally straight and gay lol. i'm a nurse and there are a lot of male nurses where i work, and i swear i'm practically the only gay nurse, a profession that used to be stereotypically gay if you were a male nurse. There's a doctor where i work who has a gorgeous ass, definitely hits the gym, and is the standard for fashion at the hospital, right down to his socks. He is stereotypically 'gay,' married to a woman with two kids. i was crushing on this one doctor for a couple of years and then found out he was married to a woman. i had not seen him for awhile and came in one day to find 'he' had transitioned and was transexual. That gave me pause lol. There's another guy where i work who i suspected was flirting with me, but i always err on the side of caution. One day he dropped his keys and i pointed it out to him, he turned and gave me a big smile and said "that's because you had me so distracted." i've been tempted to pin him to the wall and kiss him on more than one occasion, but would prolly be dead wrong on my read of him. To me, the only way to know is to ask... and even then, i don't think you can be sure, just gotta take it at face value.

i do not think this is simple or black and white, especially from the scant information we have about this guy. The guy is an individual, not a stereotype. i don't get the impression from the OP that this guy was looking for sympathy, he might even consider it presumptuous and patronizing coming from people who do not know him. Depending on his age, he may very well have grown up and developed during a time when being gay was still considered a mental disorder. He could have been raised in a fundamentalist religion that conditioned him to believe that "God" hated who and how he is. i know plenty of guys caught in that web, equating the self loathing they feel with "God." It can be enormously difficult to reconcile the reality of being gay with a deeply condoned notion of "God." A lot of these guys are not pretending to be straight, or denying their attraction, that are trying to kill it because they have a fucked up emotional disposition that their 'God' hates gay. Or he could just be an asshole lol. We don't know. Some are old enough to have lived through a revolution where gay guys went from being entrapped, arrested and charged with a felony for asking a vice cop, posing as and cruising like a gay guy, if he wanted to have sex. Maybe his church tried to cast the demons out of him that he'd been conditioned from an early age to believe he had. Maybe he went from that era, got married believing he was sick and sinful and needed to change, to an era where two guys can now get married and have the same benefits (on paper) as straight people.

i love that you do this. Thank you.

lol, perspective, eh? HIV is not even in the top 10 causes of death. In many cultures there is stigma attached to eating cock, but very little, if any, stigma attached to eating the stuff that is the number one cause of death. There is a lot of cultural conditioning against sex, but the primary cause of death (i.e., eating unhealthy 'food') is promoted fairly universally.

Many make health decisions based on emotion, not evidence. Many do not even understand what scientific study evidence is or how to discern what constitutes a good study. 60 isn't exactly deaths door, if i was neg, i'd still be on PreP. But then, i am also Covid vaccinated and get a flu shot every year too. All these meds protect more than the person taking them, and sadly, this guy was ignorant. He was bragging about being HIV neg, not STI free, so he was obviously ignorant about PreP. i'm poz, on meds, undetectable. i get STI tested routinely when tracking my HIV status. i'm much less of a risk for STI's or HIV now than in was prior to being poz because i get tested a lot more often and am much more aware of my STI status. The vast majority of people in Western culture die or have chronic disease from what they put in their mouth (i.e., the 'food' they eat), not from what they put in their ass. The truth is, there is more risk from eating pizza than from taking cum.

Ditto what has already been said about hypnosis. That said, i love the idea of it. i'm really into subtle mind fuck, 'grooming.' i love subtle over overt, when a Top gets off on pushing buttons and a bottom opens up.

i think it depends on the individuals involved. From the responses, clearly their are guys who can be sexually sleazy and emotionally committed, while there are other guys who connect the two. It can be complex though, life is just not predictable or compliant with rules, even when we want to make it fit. i've been with complete strangers, walk in anonymizes breed, where i had to literally bite my mattress to keep from declaring my love for them while they were fucking and breeding me. Sometimes there is an inexplicable vibe and connection with a guy you did not reckon on, it just happens. i have guys who collared a piece of my heart years ago and still own it to this day. Even though we have had no contact. they have a leash on me and if they pulled on it, i'd respond.

i can think of one other reason to add to the list: guys who write their ad when they are super horny and feeling it, then do not change their ad/profile and are online with an ad they wrote when the would have taken any load.