hntnhole

Hmmmmm .... I see your point. I did shift into 5th there. Thanks for pointing that out.

No problem at all, BootmanLA ... I like your <polite cough> challenges. It's entirely proper to offer them. I very much enjoy the discourse, sharing of ideas; that's why I'm here. Now: the title of this post was "Do you still cum in a bottom who asks you to pull out". There was no qualifier, no hint of when (before/during/almost done) and I answered that question according to my personal thoughts. I claim to speak for no one but myself. I don't mind sharing what I happen to think on whatever subject, but it's only my perceptions, and on the behalf of no one but me. The one possible exception: there was a post a while ago about "negotiations" "rules of the road", "safety", all of that, for a Bd/Sm scene. I happen to be experienced in that particular corner of the m4m world, and offered some considerations that could possibly be considered "speaking on the behalf of others", since no one else within the LeatherLife world had not responded to that thread. I look forward to more interesting perspectives from you - and everyone else, for that matter.

I agree. First, it would only stir up trouble for someone, and I'm assuming that wouldn't be something you'd want to do. Secondly, both of them would probably avoid you if you do that. Stick to their dicks - keep your Hole open and your mouth closed. Then, all three of you win.

Well, I had to wait to reply - busy day around here, and I tend to get a bit down-in-the-weeds sometimes 🙄 We, as citizens of this country, need to have some measure of trust in our government on certain issues. One of these would be on issues of health, wellness, etc. While there are crackers in government, there seem to be fewer in the various health-care arms of our current administration. That said ..... In the Congress, we need some major reform. Being elected to the House or Senate should not be someone's ticket to vast wealth. There have been hues and cries over the years, and they are completely valid. Given all the other messes we're dealing with currently, the issue of Congresspersons on-the-take, whether from lobbyists, political organizations, whatever, needs to be reconstructed. The days of Jimmy Stewart in Washington are long, long gone. Once Voting Rights are secure, bills to care for the least of these among us (not quite a direct quote) are passed, the SCOTUS pigpen is cleaned up, and the really crucial issues to our Republic are addressed, we should turn to: 1) Term limits, 2) Financial issues pertaining to Congresspersons, NGO's contributions (i.e. bribes) to Congresspersons - both Republikan*, Democratic or Independent. Progressive or Liberal. Whatever the label, if they're "serving" us in Congress (as opposed to serving themselves trainloads of cash), then that's what they should be compelled by Law to do. Apparently, greed has become the norm in Washington, particularly when Congresspersons can run again and again for literally decades. The issue of jerrymandering is related, but probably not germane to this topic. Having been politically active in City of Chicago politics for a number of years, I know first-hand how much that reform needs to happen. In essence, I'm endorsing a national re-assessment of our Government, and I am about as far from endorsing conservatism as one could get. After 200+ years, that's not so unimaginable. I see the Constitution as a crucial document of great importance, since our Government is based on the precepts laid down within it. That doesn't mean it should never be updated, obviously. Glaringly, the 2nd Amendment needs major surgery, but there's plenty of updating needed throughout. It will take sincere, honest discourse amongst the citizens of our country to start righting these wrongs, which seems impossible these days. How we do it, I don't have a road-map. But, it's up to each of us to do what we can. I think the "medical" area of the Government has become too large, too unwieldly to act judiciously. There are too many people on the take from Big Pharma to effect fundamental change in focus. One thing about bureaucracies is, they tend to get fat and lazy, issuing "guide lines" to more bureaucrats on lower levels - in our case, State Governements - and assume they will be followed. Yet another layer of molasses to grind through. Another thing about these collections of civil "servants" is, they tend to develop into a "take care of myself first, then the rest of the citizenry" mindset. I'm not saying all the people working for Government are corrupt - far from it. It's more like a creeping, gradual drift. Which is why we need a more holistic approach to reforming these institutions of Government. However well meaning, these outfits are not equipped to do it themselves. Thus, it it's to be done, it must be via the electoral process, starting at the local community level, proceeding through the ranks of calcification to the Federal Government. Some today think that armed revolt (called for yesterday by Cheeto-Head - he of that ridiculous pompadour - I could go on and on, but that's for a different place - and that would wind up with tragic consequences. Somehow though, the health-care arm of the Government simply must be reformed to include the welfare of every damn person on this continent. Every single one. Regardless of race, creed, origin, who they fuck and how often, on and on. There's no quick fix here; things have been oozing along for so many years it will take a general "shake-up" to bring these much and sorely needed reforms. I wonder if it's already too late. But I'm an optimist - a fool, maybe, but I actually believe we can right these wrongs together - as an educated citizenry. Well, I'm sorry to say that at present, we have to assess for ourselves how factual the information we get actually is. Frankly, I do trust in information from the CDC regarding covid - however lugubrious their testing regimens are. I don't think some of the arms of Government are quite as fucked up as some others, and they're the doctors, not me. So, I do what Fauci tells me to do. I have to place at least some trust in our Government. When we press our concerns/issues firmly and consistently, together as one, we will get some of these folks attention. As far as I'm concerned, we could start pressing Congress to announce that there was no 45th President of the United States. *intentional

I don't see these two (the fuck or the load) as separate. The one naturally follows the other - or should, barring any late-surfacing "disagreements". The fuck and the Breeding are two parts of the act - one without the other just doesn't scratch the itch for me.

Obviously. The root of the question though, is when the Top is made aware. We are men who need sex with other men, we have what some other men need, and they have what we need. The problem is, "consent" or "non-consent" to fill the guy up should (or I would even say "must") come before the fuck (preferably), or shortly after it commences. If a bottom says "gimme the load" and then waits until the very last instant before he gets it, and suddenly says "no - I didn't mean it - I don't want the load - pull out" then I find that an abrogation of the limits first agreed upon. Bareback Tops don't exist to cater to bareback bottoms that think they can run the scene, alter the terms from second-to-second. That's irresponsible, manipulative, and anything but fair. Bottoms that try a maneuver like that are more into trying to "Top-from-the-bottom" than a sexual exchange. Bottoms are only 1/2 of the breeding calculus - and trying to co-opt the Top's half is unacceptable. To be clear: When in a 1-1 situation, I ask where he wants the load before I shove it to him. Then, when I'm razor-edge close, I tell him something like "now it's time to Breed" ..." or "now I'm gonna make you one of my boys" ... or something like that. He's already had chances to decide, and when it's too late to alter the impending event, it's just too damn late. Obviously, in the fuckjoints, this subject wouldn't even rise to the level of discussing the weather ... let alone anything else for that matter.

Well, I was THERE ... about 25 years ago .... two ships passing in the dark(room), I guess - - - dammittall ..... 😁

That was in response to a page or two earlier in this thread ...

Of course it is. 1. Alternatively, the sub must bring his phone to the proposed Scene, and make arrangements for a friend to call at X time. 2. The friend who places the call must know the address/location of where the sub will be at that appointed time. 3. If the sub doesn't answer or respond to the phone call, the cops will be called and informed. And, they will come. 4. The Dom must be informed of these safety arrangements well in advance of the proposed scene. If he has any thoughts of abuse, he will either cancel the scene, or be impressed at seriousness of the sub's commitment to Service. If the Dom's on the up & up, he will be doubly impressed, and I would predict a very successful scene will follow. At least take these few steps to care for your safety.

First, thanks for the information, guys. I can't say I understand it yet, but a challenge is always worthy of the mental exercise. While I've never even seen a "language?) like that, it's always good to learn new things. I'll try .... Assuming that the partner does not know: cheating: (I'll have to mess around with the computer looking for those symbols) implies fun, but there may be costs. cheating implies not ethical: that is the implication, without further definition of terms. not cheating implies no fun: intrinsically correct, but a bit vague for a definitive answer. You already know what the parameters I would endorse. For clarity: when I was in high school, algebra was a required subject for the higher-ed "track-system" (remember that?) As it happens, the librarian of the high school was also my mother, and she and the algebra teacher, an old, single woman nearing retirement, were coffee-break-buddies. Thus, the algebra teacher felt comfortable asking if I were doing the homework, knowing my mom would answer truthfully. As it also happens, I spent a lot of time each night trying to understand algebra. Of course, my mom reported that yes, I was spending hours at it. At exam time, I flunked algebra completely, but - thanks to the friendship - the algebra teacher passed me with a D, since she knew I'd been seriously trying. She also told my mother - which was shared with me by mom - that the teacher had said to my mom that "very occasionally I run across a student whose mind simply doesn't comprehend algebra, and I'll pass your son with a D, since I know he's got other talents, and I don't want to keep him out of the college-bound track". Thus, while Everest looms before me, and my name isn't Edmund - yet, I'll try. Since I telling tales out of school, one more quickie: I wanted to try out for the football team, and stubbornly insisted. My mother also knew the football coach (natch), and marched into his office and for-fucking-bade him to let me on the team. She was only trying to prevent her skinny kid from being broken into pieces of course, but I did resent being offered golf, tennis, and finally accepted the track and swim teams.

Both ErosWired and backdoorjimmy raise a valid point, and thanks for raising the issue. It seems we need to define the word predator with some specifics. For clarity, here's one from MW: "an animal that lives by killing and eating other animals : an animal that preys on other animals predators like bears and wolves and another, compliments of BBC: "A predator is an animal that hunts, kills and eats other animals for food. Prey is a term used to describe organisms that predators kill for food. Predator/prey relationships can be illustrated in a diagram called a food chain or food web" Now, We are not reflective of either of those definitions. While there may be some validity in some guys calling themselves "predators, or predatory" within the context of men having sex, the real definition of that word is being stretched to the limit. We don't fuck, then kill each other. Some of us do go "hunting" in the fuckjoints, and maybe some of us misuse the word. I'll accept the blame, since I may very well have used the word in an inappropriate manner somewhere along the line. If that's the case, it most definitely wasn't in a bloodthirsty context. That in no way conflates with the actual definition though; we're "hunting" for willing partners to fuck. They wouldn't be there, ass up, if they weren't "on the hunt" for Cocks to Breed them. That said, there is never, ever, ever any excuse for deliberately harming another human being (unless society determines that shall happen according to the law). Thus, perhaps we could describe predatory acts as aggressive, destructive, threatening, disruptive, offensive, disturbing, to name a few. While these are not complimentary at all, at least they don't imply killing each other. We're all about exchanging pleasure, each guy has what the other guy needs.

I couldn't agree more !!! Dull guys are good for some things, but intelligence, honesty, integrity, is really sexy ......

But. There is an even more powerful act which could accomplish that and so much more. It's called VOTING. Crucial at the local level, critical at the State level, and of utmost importance at the Federal level.

There is an easy way around this. Any business of decent size retains a professional CPA service, which assigns numerical codes to all areas of expense that particular company incures. Thus, whether electronic or actual checks written to pay various invoices, the specific accounting code is also entered, which information is for the CPA firm only. When desired, these codes can be "double-protected", in that the initial numerical code leads only to another one. The point is to make it as difficult as possible for any outside agency to unearth the actual purpose of the payable. Plus, there are other ways to compensate the CPA firm, particularly when it's a gay-owned/operated company, and I don't mean fucking them. As it happens, my partner and I had a weekend place, and twice a year we invited the accountant and his other half to spend some time there. Purely as friends, of course.

It was quite chilly again yesterday, and Chris came over last night as well - and brought a little present with him. I think I may have fucked the "present" before, and fortunately I had the playsheet under the sheets. We had a pervectly filthy time of it for the second night in a row. The present was a hot-holed Hispanic guy, with a great hairy Hole - one of my very favorites. Chris and I both rutted in him, ate his Hole together, fucked him some more and then shared each other's Sperm up that sweet hairy Hole. It's only a queen-sized bed, and the three of us actually slept together off and on, but the sensation of a mouth on my Cock did wake me up a couple of times. Of course, I was guilty of the same ... Now where did I put that bottle of cum-stain-remover .... the washing machine is calling those sheets ... loudly 😒 It's all about Cock/Hole/Sperm

Yikes .... math was never my strong suit; I'd never seen that symbol before. Is there such a thing as a dictionary (cross-referenced) for these symbols? I'd buy one in an eyeblink. After reading fskn's contributions, I thought that's what he must have meant, but I wanted to ask you math-whizzes to be sure. And yes, I'm sure he is ......

I think that in all relationships there is some sort of "power dynamics" involved. The question is, are they acted upon. Usually, one guy is at least somewhat dominant, which attracts somewhat subs, and vice versa. That inborn bent, however, doesn't need to be the foundational aspect of the relationship; merely loving, caring for each other is an even more powerful dynamic. Often an innately D can/will restrain his natural dominance somewhat, in favor of demonstrating his love for the partner. After all, he can exercise his dominance in the backrooms/fuckjoints, with tricks (agreed upon within the relationship), fuckbuds, whatever. Love is worth every ounce of effort to protect, nurture and grow with. A loving relationship is as much a partnership too, with Love being the Dom, and everything else always serves the Principal Cock ... right ??? 😁 Thanks for the clarification re: symbols.

Last night / this morning. Here in SoFl, we're going through a substantial cold-wave, and my fb Chris doesn't have a furnace at his place - only space heaters. He asked if he could come over and spend the night, to which I replied "of course". I like him, we have similar tastes is sexual depravity, occasionally we go to Slammer together, but usually I go to his place or he comes here. Often he has some hot-holed bottom over there, and calls me. So, we had some fun last night Breeding each other, eating each other's Hole, and sucked each other off this morning. And, when I took the dog out this morning, I left the computer on, and he was sniffing around BZ. Maybe he'll join up !!

Actually, I think it's the pattern of behavior that's addictive. Sperm, in an of itself, isn't addictive - only the lust that drives the behavior which is rewarded by Cocks pumping loads into your mouth or Hole is the "addictive" component.

You flatter that circus-barker, and I dare not go into it further lest I get thrown off this site .....

First, fskn, thanks for moving the thread. Secondly, thanks for the very well informed post. Clearly you know more than most about these problems. To the listed items: 1) lost insurance 2) decreased risk 3&4) precarious housing and employment: 1. These are social depravities, with strong, debilitating affects on the underserved in the US. Unless one happens to be a full-blooded Indigenous Native American (which group has suffered mightily at the hands of the Government), you are either an immigrant or the descendant of one, and almost certainly not Caucasian. While in some areas of the country it is not accepted, the fact is that non-Caucasians have been treated with little compassion by the Government for 400 years. This generational inequity has soaked into the very dirt beneath our feet. Obviously Government-sponsored health-insurance should follow the individual, not their employer or any other second-party. The social contract should be between the individual and his/her Government, via the agencies set up to accomplish that important task. It is a "given" that people favored by the institutions of Government are well-served, or at least better served. The relationship between the individual and the insurance provider need not depend on extraneous service providers - they are there to provide health care, not be a part of managing who gets insurance and who doesn't. The problem is surely not with the individual who has lost their insurance, often through no fault of their own. 2. The issue of risk awareness (i.e. consequences of serious illness vs individual impressions, misinformation) is something the Government can impact via public service announcements (I mean more like commercials for every little tiny worthless thing on tv), professionally written and produced, and run serially on every platform. HHS would do well to invest (that's exactly what it would be) in such a program, since it would not only present useful, true information, but would also soak into the community-at-large that risk awareness is something that everyone should be cognizant of. Remember when Elizabeth Birch ran the HRC? She initiated the "come out, come out wherever you are" campaign, which went a long way towards normalizing gay people. And when we did come out, family members, neighbors, employers, co-workers realized that we're not the demons as previously thought. Now, on almost every Netflix series, there are gay characters, and no one gives a hoot. The same thing can happen with our tax dough, to take the stigma of the unknown "gay" illness down a few pegs. As we know, misinformation seems to be the order of the day, politically speaking. The Government can easily fight this battle too. But, without a very large (i.e. Governmental) information campaign, far too many will rely on hearsay (for instance, some of the garbage on <polite cough> certain websites). I think that once people are armed with reliable information, they will recognize what they need to do. Most people buy X brand of soap flakes because they ae inundated by ads from the soapflakes company. Why not turn the internet to some useful instrument of disbursing real information? With everyone's nose buried in their phones these days, it can't help but get reliable messages out. Without any widely accepted source of reliable, non-judgemental information, the folks who need the information the most won't be able to access it. When that ignorance is allowed to fester, folks may well thing something like "I've been doing this for a long time - no reason to alter my behavior", or along those lines. In the absence of such an information source, folks wind up thinking whatever they happened to hear over the backyard fence. Or a trick. Or any other "special" place. Ideally, the Government could mesh both a comprehensive media campaign with a health-care campaign; reportedly, they can walk and chew shit at the same time. 3. This is the most egregious of all. Some of you won't like this, and may want to skip it. If there are precarious housing problems for certain segments of our citizenry, then why the fuck is that? Why is it that some folks have a tough time which mansion they're going to live in that month, and which the next? Why are the underpasses full of homeless folks? Some are worthy and some are not? Hardly. It's because our Government is dominated by one certain subset of persons, who have traditionally controlled Government for centuries, and overlooked the humanity of others for even longer. In case anyone missed it, I mean Caucasians. Currently, we see these "Entitled" Powermongers actually changing voting laws in certain States, merely to preserve their own privilege and power. Their depravity is mind-bending. What harm does it do the nation to insure that everyone gets decent housing? A handful of senators* unable to pocket millions for a year or two? Forced to live in only 2 mansions for a years or two? Forced to abstain from the Maserati or Ferrari and put up with a Cadillac or Lincoln for a year or two? Would it be so terrible to share enough of the wealth so that everyone could have decent housing? The child-tax credit has just expired, and almost certainly will not be renewed until after the primaries, and most likely not at all until after the 2024 election. I see the listed issues in this post as worthy Government pursuits. The problems are so large, so diverse, I think only Government can fix them. Foundations, Human Rights organizations can help, offer expertise, but only the Government can make such a massive undertaking come to pass. I use a different place for political commentary, and it can get far more blunt than the above, If it sounds like I am angry about these un-addressed issues, I'm not. What I am, is enraged. Worse, I have managed to devolve into the political arena, where this may not belong. My apologies. *small case intentional

Wouldn't that have been a "power-play" on his part? Trying to keep you tied only to himself? Enjoying your sexual prowess, while denying it to others? The real killer would be denying his own body to your sexual requirements. I wouldn't put up with that for anything. Since you two apparently had "the conversation" about "outside" sex, and he didn't respond appropriately, I would have done the same thing - with one possible exception: I would have told him that I was going to fuck whoever I want, whenever I want, and however I want. Bluntly, and to his face. It's our nature to use our Cocks on countless Holes, and against our nature to restrict our inborn lusts just because someone else wants our Cock all to themselves. and then restrict access. And then he falls in love over the ether? All I can say is, thank "Whoever" you did what you needed to do. Many, many men received what they needed, and you enjoyed what they offered in return. 100% Spot on. Accepting who and what we are is healthy. Trying to deny it is unhealthy, particularly if we love them. Does this symbol ⇏ mean an equal sign crossed out? Sounds like we're two peas in the proverbial pod, huh?

Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/13/2021 at 8:50 AM, GarrettParker said: A sidepiece/cheating is definitely hot! So is sharing a 3rd or more!!! Does your bf know that you want more? Maybe he does, too... He's vetoed opening things up. I read this reply a bit differently than some of the early replies. One guy asks if the poster of this thread "Does your bf know that you want more?" The response from the poster follows. "The bf has vetoed opening things up". Now. We don't know anything at all about these guys, other than one is financially dependent on the other, that one wants outside action, and (presumably) the other doesn't. Thus, we're being asked a question without much to go on to offer a response. Maybe: a) the bf is afraid of losing his financial support, and thus vetoed extra fucking. b) is the clingy type, and doesn't want to share. c) has not yet matured enough to trust in his bf's (the author of this thread) fidelity, if extra Cock/Hole becomes ok. d) maybe the bf is a prude. e) maybe the bf is already cheating, and is performing a power-struggle to keep his (the author) bf under his domination. Maybe a whole lot of things. Now. Most of us aren't built to attempt getting the approval of the gay "Ozzie & Harriet" crowd. Most of us love sex, identify with being sexual beings too much to honestly maintain a closed relationship. I happened to absolutely love watching my life-partner suck off other Cocks, take loads off other Cocks. We were both Pigs, and reveled in each other's porcine tastes. I knew exactly when he went out for sex, and he knew exactly when I did, and often we went out together. And yes, it's hottttt. I know that kind of relationship isn't for every guy, but the flood of "do it do it do it" isn't warranted either. Cheating is dishonest, and leads to the shrinking of emotional well-being. In my opinion, the one should tell the other the truth, since this couple will probably split up once the facts surface (as they inevitably will). One of the magical things about living our lives through the prism of knowing we're sexual beings, accepting who we are, loving who we are, and acting upon our carnal needs as often as we must, is the act of fucking men we've never met, doing it simply for the pleasure. Spreading our Seed to as many men as possible is - for want of a better term - "wired" into our brains. We are also (at least, "conditioned") to want a love-relationship, and these two are often opposing pressures. How to satisfy both? Honesty within the relationship. Each guy wins, and neither guy loses.

Ahhhhhh .... red !!! Colorful, eye-catching underwear only leads the eye to appreciating the curve of the ass, the angle where the cheeks meet the legs, the natural things Tops notice. But you can't go outside in just those ... I'll just assume whatever pants you're forced to wear (by an unjust law, of course) follow the same cut. Pissing up a hot Hole can be great - the jets of piss can really be shot out hard by the Top, and felt/enjoyed by the bottom. Plus, guys who drink a lot of hot black coffee don't get denied because of the bitter taste. Naaaahhhh ... you're not the only one. But, the fabric of the pants has to be really thin for the edges of the briefs to be clearly visible. I find that one signal I very much appreciate is when a hotassed guy hikes the pants up his back, thereby almost shouting at us to inspect his cheeks/hole as closely as possible. Of course, if he's going commando - wellllll .... we KNOW what he really needs. So lets go get him .......

Well, it's always a good day when we learn something new. Thanks, blackrobe, for the clear explanation. I honestly had no idea. Fortunately, I seldom use contractions, but I will absolutely never use that one again.