Okay, Explain... Flakes

[tallslenderguy]

Great thread.

Interesting to learn how universal flakes are. i'm with those who blame aps. And i think it has gotten progressive. i was around when AOL started the online hookup ball rolling. i met a tall, wiry black man who i fell head over heals for: "Kirby." OMG, He was gorgeous, inside and out, i loved everything about Him. 

i also got a descent amount of actual connection on CL when it was still available, but i also watched it get progressively worse. i think the whole online hookup scene devolved into what it is today, that online, over time, caused a sort of de-evolution of civility and manners. It removes an element of responsibility. People say and do things online that they would never do in real life, and that doesn't just apply to gay hook up. i think that is also starting to bleed over into real life. i'm a critical care nurse, and verbal and physical assault on nurses is on the rise.

i think a lot of this has been facilitated by the invisible, anonymous online opportunities. It's safer for people to exercise their true colors, and i think emboldens some to bring it into 'real life.'  In a way, i don't think it's particularly new, i think "flakes"  have always been out there, but online has provided them a venue?  

Prior to the pandemic, i had pretty much given up on Aps for hook ups, i'd go to the local ABS and usually could get fucked 4 or 5 times in short order. i'd rather be with a guy while lying prone and naked on my own bed. But "flakes" are a lot less common at ABS (though some go there too).  SInce the pandemic? Have only been with fuck buddies and more recently i think i may be on the verge of having an actual boyfriend... and i am pretty damned excited about the prospect. He's pretty damned awesome. 

[Hairypiglet]

35 minutes ago, Treehugger said:

I ran the Erie Canal through my guts...   

🤣🤣🤣🤣

We've all been there.

[Treehugger]

31 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

de-evolution of civility and manners.

Bingo! It’s everywhere and getting worse especially with our current political climate (we know who to blame for that).

     If you are unable to be kind and respectful in person why bother on-line as well. It’s world wide Lord of the Flies out there. 

[Hairypiglet]

2 minutes ago, Treehugger said:

It’s world wide Lord of the Flies out there.

Except rather than worshipping the severed head of a pig, we're all pigs worshipping ourselves.

[Hairypiglet]

9 people died as a result of no consideration for others at a fucking concert.

The world is fucked.

[hntnhole]

On 1/9/2021 at 1:44 PM, ErosWired said:

Who raises children to become adults who think behaving like this toward other people is okay? How does a young man square it with his conscience to string another man along for weeks and cause him to spend the cost of a hotel room and the time and effort of a three-hour round-trip drive, and then just blow him off?

Clearly, there are different cultural strata involved, and teaching the universal "moral code" doesn't enter the minds of two straights that begot these liars, which "parents" weren't taught it either.  Even what should be an innate sense of fairness often doesn't exist.  These guys are basically cowards, able to excuse their cowardice with who knows what kind of mental juggling, and it's entirely possible some are reading this right now.  Unfortunately, this type will always be around, to their shame.  It's not the pandemic - it's the flaw in their character.  As far as I know, no one has yet invented a Cosmic Chalkboard where these guys can be "outed" as flakes for all to see. 

Unfortunately, bearing the burden of flakes clotting up the community is one more hurdle, in a life full of them.  

[LetsPOZBreed]

I've been flaked on recently as well.  I've thought I've gotten better at sensing this, but things fall through the cracks.  My situation:

Guy in his mid-20s approaches me on BBRT.  We exchange a small number of messages and he asks if I can come to his..gives me his postcode.  At this point in the evening, though, public transport would have shut by the time I got to him, so there was no real way of getting back home.  I ask for a rain check that evening and he agrees.  We make plans for the following evening.  

I rarely do that last part, as future meets never pan out that well.  But right on schedule, he messages me to set up that evening.  There was even potential for some rougher play (me to him) and he asks me for a safe word.  I get a good feeling about this, as I generally don't get asked that by a guy who flakes.  I make my way to the station, near certain that I'm in for a hot time; tell him I'm on my way and if he can confirm his actual address so I can pick the right house...

...then crickets.  Twenty minutes later (and two stops from my destination) I get "did you leave yet?"  I couldn't believe it.  The flakiness around "have you left yours yet", "what time will you get here", "did I scare you off", and that whole thing, when I've clearly messaged my arrival time and asked for confirmation of address.  I was livid.  I haven't bothered for a meet-up since then.  It's just not worth it right now.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, tallslenderguy said:

Great thread.

Interesting to learn how universal flakes are. i'm with those who blame aps. And i think it has gotten progressive. i was around when AOL started the online hookup ball rolling. i met a tall, wiry black man who i fell head over heals for: "Kirby." OMG, He was gorgeous, inside and out, i loved everything about Him. 

i also got a descent amount of actual connection on CL when it was still available, but i also watched it get progressively worse. i think the whole online hookup scene devolved into what it is today, that online, over time, caused a sort of de-evolution of civility and manners. It removes an element of responsibility. People say and do things online that they would never do in real life, and that doesn't just apply to gay hook up. i think that is also starting to bleed over into real life. i'm a critical care nurse, and verbal and physical assault on nurses is on the rise.

i think a lot of this has been facilitated by the invisible, anonymous online opportunities. It's safer for people to exercise their true colors, and i think emboldens some to bring it into 'real life.'  In a way, i don't think it's particularly new, i think "flakes"  have always been out there, but online has provided them a venue?  

Prior to the pandemic, i had pretty much given up on Aps for hook ups, i'd go to the local ABS and usually could get fucked 4 or 5 times in short order. i'd rather be with a guy while lying prone and naked on my own bed. But "flakes" are a lot less common at ABS (though some go there too).  SInce the pandemic? Have only been with fuck buddies and more recently i think i may be on the verge of having an actual boyfriend... and i am pretty damned excited about the prospect. He's pretty damned awesome. 

I've found it hides their insecurities.  Have the same issue with old friends that are great at texting and nothing else.  They hide behind their phone via texting.  There are many ways to look at it.  Insecure, narcissism and so many more reasons.  All I know is I'm not perfect nor do I want to be with or date someone who thinks they are.  Think so many have fallowed by example of leaders.  I don't pick sides in Govt. I do watch both sides, then watch men and friends and they act the same way.  It's sad we have the best communication ever in history of human kind, yet we can't communicate. 

[chipygmalion80]

I'll rise for the Defense (of Flakes ... I may gag while doing this)

Trust is a 2-way street.  You trusted him to open his door to you at Fuck o'clock.  OK.

How does this guy know you won't steal from him?  Or turn into a Dahmner?

We all want to trust each other but it's hard to build trust over a 2" x 4" screen. 

A phone call can help but anyone can lie, even to your face.  A good, old fashioned hookup at the bar may be the cure ... while drinking an old fashioned, of course 🙂  

So folks get cold feet. 

I rest my case.

(I've been on the other side too many times -- waiting for them to buzz me up with crickets as the reply -- so I do get what ya'll are sayin.)

 

[Menbendovr]

2 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

Great thread.

Interesting to learn how universal flakes are. i'm with those who blame aps. And i think it has gotten progressive. i was around when AOL started the online hookup ball rolling. i met a tall, wiry black man who i fell head over heals for: "Kirby." OMG, He was gorgeous, inside and out, i loved everything about Him. 

i also got a descent amount of actual connection on CL when it was still available, but i also watched it get progressively worse. i think the whole online hookup scene devolved into what it is today, that online, over time, caused a sort of de-evolution of civility and manners. It removes an element of responsibility. People say and do things online that they would never do in real life, and that doesn't just apply to gay hook up. i think that is also starting to bleed over into real life. i'm a critical care nurse, and verbal and physical assault on nurses is on the rise.

i think a lot of this has been facilitated by the invisible, anonymous online opportunities. It's safer for people to exercise their true colors, and i think emboldens some to bring it into 'real life.'  In a way, i don't think it's particularly new, i think "flakes"  have always been out there, but online has provided them a venue?  

Prior to the pandemic, i had pretty much given up on Aps for hook ups, i'd go to the local ABS and usually could get fucked 4 or 5 times in short order. i'd rather be with a guy while lying prone and naked on my own bed. But "flakes" are a lot less common at ABS (though some go there too).  SInce the pandemic? Have only been with fuck buddies and more recently i think i may be on the verge of having an actual boyfriend... and i am pretty damned excited about the prospect. He's pretty damned awesome. 

I agree with your assessment of how the online world has exacerbated and even nurtured the worst behavior in us when it comes to interacting with others. 
 

Many, if not all, of our social norms of engaging with others has gone out the window.  People can be mean now and get away with it.  Simply block or delete someone and you’re done.  Can’t do that in reality with someone other than to never meet up with them again but online just facilitates a laziness in people to even try to have a normal interaction.

I only go to places where you know men are committed to meeting and then having sex such as ABS and bathhouses or sex clubs.

[BootmanLA]

4 hours ago, Treehugger said:

I am thinking of the bathhouses and bars. When I lived in NOLA there were two bathhouses plus the Country Club and you could easily get sex in the bars.

     If I wanted to give or get a load it was so easy to stop in and take care of business. 
     Now the bathhouses are gone and the bars had that problem a couple years ago and they cracked down on the sex.

     What’s left are the apps and it’s just not the same. 

Again, though, that's something that's happened everywhere. Bathhouses in mid-sized cities across the country have been closing up in the last decade (those that survived the AIDS shutdowns, that is). Even in larger cities, the number of bathhouses has declined precipitously (and Covid has done a number on the rest).

I'm not disagreeing that it's different now, nor am I disagreeing that apps aren't a big part of the problem. I'm just noting it's not a problem local to New Orleans.

What I think IS different about New Orleans' situation is that 20 or 25 years ago, a visitor to the city from almost anywhere else in the country (except, say, SF, NYC, Chicago, and maybe one or two other places) would have found sex available essentially on the street - not prostitution, just people hanging out around the bars socializing and ending up going off to play. That vibe isn't common in the US even in gayborhoods, because local sensibilities dictated otherwise. New Orleans - both in the lower French Quarter and in parts of the Marigny - embraced the gay community publicly and welcomed visitors to indulge themselves with the rest of us.

That's gone (again, in part, thanks to the apps) but it's something NOLA had that most other cities didn't. A lot of cities had bathhouses and sex clubs.

[Guest]

Been there.  Made the drive in good faith for nothing.  Now I meet at the baths.

[gingerdaddyG]

I’m getting to the stage of giving up on apps and going back to good old fashioned cruising and saunas. 

[hntnhole]

2 hours ago, NatureBoy said:

and i am pretty damned excited about the prospect. He's pretty damned awesome. 

Good luck, bud - we're all hoping it works out for you too !!!

[ErosWired]

4 hours ago, chipygmalion80 said:

I'll rise for the Defense (of Flakes ... I may gag while doing this)

[...] 

So folks get cold feet. 

I rest my case.

“Cold feet” is not a defense for cowardice, inconsiderateness, thoughtlessness, and incivility. It’s just one of the possible motivators that triggers these despicable behaviors. Besides, if a man’s going to negotiate a fuck with another man, he needs to fucking grow a pair first. Getting cold feet in no way precludes a man from responsibly contacting the other guy and calling it off before he wastes his time, money, and/or any alternative opportunity he might have had to have sex. The Flake robs the guy of those things, and can’t ever be held to account - that’s what makes flaking so vile and wretched. And no system for reporting Flake behavior will work because it would be instantly abused by petty people trying to anonymously harm other people’s reputations - and not pay any price for that - which shows, I think, that online communication in this fashion is proving to be a fatally flawed system simply because of the way it amplifies the worst aspects of human nature.

6 hours ago, Treehugger said:

It’s world wide Lord of the Flies out there. 

Talk about bringing out the worst aspects of human nature - And if we’re the pigs... look what happened to Piggy.

Just sayin’.

Edited November 14, 2021 by ErosWired