tallslenderguy

Yes. Yes. Yes. You nail the concerns, thoughts and feelings i have about this beautifully here. i genuinely love men, and of course have a special place in my heart for guys attracted to guys. Part of that "love" stems from a long history of conditioned self loathing that i processed out of. It was a torturous existence and i hate the notion of another guy being in that state. i perceive "A" & "B" ask examples of conditioned responses. Even though i guess some might be born with a psychopathic nature, that's a hard one for me to accept, it's hard for me not to have hope for all, especially a brother who may have been damaged by cultural ignorance/hate. It seems to me that those described above are still partly or wholly captive to that cultural conditioning and at the same time, needing and wanting to exercise and experience who and how they are. To me, terms like "hole wrecking," "destroying holes," are more often part of a (long?) the list of dysphemism the gay community seems rife with? i think both terms are, more often than not, a sort of raised middle finger to the destructive cultural notions against us. Not totally unlike how words like "queer" or "faggot" are/were pejorative in the mouth and intent of many, yet embraced and repurposed by the gay community. There's more than a few from the same destructive culture that would consider any form of a Man penetrating, opening, molding another man's hole to be "hole wrecking." Those of us who need/want to penetrate or be penetrated by a Man/man have grown up in, and been influenced to varying degrees by, culture that spins all or part of who/how we are in a negative way, both subtly and overtly. We do not necessarily have established terms of our own to describe our needs, desires, actions with each other, so we may use terms polluted? with destructive attitude (or mislabeled as such) to express self love and acceptance and to actually positively affirm. i've been on BZ a long time and have several posts where i list what to me are general attributes of a "Top" nature and a "bottom" nature. Among them are a Top has creative energy, drive and a bottom has the receptive creation energy, drive. i've often described the Top as a painter, the bottom the canvas, a Top the sculpter, the bottom the clay or slab He chisels. i don't think those views are new or unique.

i too find this topic "tricky." It's one of the reasons i try to be careful to put qualifiers like "to me" in most of what i write. i realize my views and impressions are not substantiated evidence. i do not want to be pedantic. i think the general attitude of qualifying what i write is how i perceive a thing, not asserting it as a universal fact, was burned into me as a result of processing out of a conditioned fundamentalist mindset. i think that mindset i was convinced emotionally that i knew certain things vs believed certain things, that my supposed rationale was really there to support that emotional disposition. Not unlike you?, i generally/universally "don't acknowledge another man's superiority over my intellect, or as a human being." i do acknowledge superior intellectual reasoning in individual instances, but i don't turn that into a general conclusion. For me this is key to the D/s dynamic as i experience it. i may dance often enough to qualify as a dancer, but still no two dances are alike, even between the same people. i can easily "imagine" an Alpha Male Who has a strong self-image and self-value. Beyond imagination, i have experienced Men i perceive as such. For me where the divide comes, is between "whether it's merited or not." i want (crave?) as holistic experience as i can get where it's not just a physical act of sex that is the focus, but the whole person, intellect and emotions included. For example, one man can piss on/in me and has an attitude of "force, meanness, bullying," that will shut me down. In that 'dance' the sub part of me not only runs and hides, i may respond violently if i feel attacked. Another Man may engage in exactly the same act of pissing on/in me, but do so because He not only wants/needs to do so, even feels entitled to do so, but none of those feelings (or accompanying reasonings) are detached from me or my corresponding want/need that accomodates His/Him. I.e., what is happening is His needs/desires are connecting to, aligning with mine and we are both cognizant of that at some level. Can i imagine that happening with a "bully" and the guys who want/need bullies? Yes, i can imagine it, but i cannot relate to it. To me, that crosses the boarder into "sociopathic." If it is repeated and oft practiced as general behavior, takes up residence there, it becomes generally sociopathic. The key to me is the disconnect, when the 'bully' makes no distinction between the person who wants him, and the person who does not, and "forces" himself (or assumes) on whomever he pleases or perceives as deserving out of his (sole) unmerited sense of entitlement. For me, my act of submission, born out of a complimentary need/desire, is what makes the connection symbiotic, meritorious. i do not experience that with a bully or a person who needs/wants to be mean as part of the dynamic. That violates me intellectually and emotionally. So even if i enjoy/want/need to be pissed on/in (for example), i do not fragment the act from those other parts of me. In order for me to connect, i need to perceive a Mans intellectual/emotional need/desire at some level. or at least, i cannot perceive simultaneous or conflicting hate as part of the act.

Just left, quickie from my regular FB. He had a lunch break and wanted some... so did i. Sucked Him some first, i really zone with Him when sucking Him, He so obviously loves it, makes me really wild and hungry. He has a perfect Cock and i rarely gag when throating Him, that's always a sign that i'm in the zone with a Man, totally into Him. At one point He says: "I want to stick it in you." jesus, yes. i can almost never tell when He comes, sometimes He'll give a little signal or sigh, but usually He fucks through His orgasm and keeps fucking. He's one of those Who stays hard enough to fuck no matter if He has come or not, He's also a multiple loader, so i can never quite tell when it happens, but after i am fully loaded. i told Him after that it doesn't ever matter to me how quickly or fast the fuck is, i'm always grateful to have Him and love having Him and His Cock inside of me. He seems to like that, it's a real, good connection and i'm always a little surprised that it's been this awesome for 3 years now, a couple of times a week this last year or so. i live in a small town, not a lot available, so i feel particularly thankful to have such a great FB.

Thank You for sharing. The reality is, you are "different." How you have been treated through your life as someone who stands out as different affects how you develop as a person. i'd guess you could find some who could relate better among black people, who are also seen for their color? i think gay guys should have a better capacity to understand, also being different from the 'norm,' except being gay can generally be hidden (the proverbial closet). i was particularly faggoty as a little kid. i didn't understand it at all, but attracted bullies like a magnet. Over time, i learned to hide, conform to what and how i should act and my faggoty side all went undercover. Obviously, that cannot be done with skin color. i 'm sorry you have to deal with this... life is already hard enough, eh? On the other hand, i appreciate and admire your openness and consideration. i do think there are people who will care and understand you, who will see and love you for who you are... this man seems one of them to me. Does he know you are gay? Have you been able to share the thoughts and feelings you share with us with him?

i think the question is relational and individual. i find the idea of a Man/Top possessing and controlling my orgasm to be very romantic. But that's me, and it only would work if the Man/Top had similar desires/needs from His complimentary position/perspective. Part of my reasoning is He can use my orgasm, or lack of the same, to keep my horny/needy for His Cock and His Orgasm. To that end, having my penis open and unlocked it can be edged and stimulated, but not allowed to cum. Then there's ruined orgasm, which can have another psychological effect/message. i love mind fuck as a big part of the dynamic. i love the idea of one orgasm in the relationship (His) being shared. I.e., His orgasm becomes my orgasm ... after He has had it first, it transfers out of Him and into me. If i have an orgasm, ideally it's from Him giving me one and from being penetrated in some form by Him. i think all this stuff is between individuals though. i think there are general needs that both Top and bottoms have, but i think how they get met depends on the individuals involved.

Pretty sure You have both in Your neighborhood. ❤️

That's a good idea, i was thinking of just donating mine to the salvation army.

To me it feels about how it looks, very textured butt not rough. That sort of thing is so individual? i won't typically buy expensive stuff like Bad Dragon because i know my toys end up on the island of misfit toys... it's not the toys, i just do not get off on self penetration. But in my opinion, this is just as good as a BD toy.

one of these, got it to try the texture 🙂 [think before following links] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BK8X4V2L?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Thank you @Shotsfired. i'm guilty of some of this stuff, long profiles especially. i often go back and edit, parse it down, but then it grows again. i reason that i'm trying to attract someone who is interested in the things i put out there, but that's not going to happen if they don't read it because it's a ponderous tome lol. If we try and use a profile to mimic IRL, how often do people on the street try and engage based on a long speech? Typically, we are attracted a thing they say, or the way they look, or a quick impression, not because we just finished reading their autobiography. Lots of great stuff, thanks again for your salient post.

So i bought an IPL device. After reading lots of reviews, i got a "Ulike" [think before following links] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09BN5GMRL?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details. i've been using it a couple of weeks now, about 3x a week and am already noticing a difference in regrowth. my FB likes smooth, so that was all it took for me. Since He's pretty much the closest thing i have to a regular relationship with a Man, He's my motivation relationally. He seems to really like me this way a lot more. Since removing the hair prior to getting this a few weeks ago, His fucking has become more intense, primal, He's been seriously pounding the fuck out of me the last couple of weeks and leaves me limp and gaping when He is sated. i love that conquered, possessed feeling, so any relationship to being smooth... i'm in lol.

i love You for this. i do love the look and feel of being hairless in my pubic areas. To me it both looks and feels 'bottom' (and sub). But i wanna please the Man i am with, so it's i can do either. It's not like my being bottom only... i can't choose against that, it just doesn't work for me and denies too many essential things in me. But pubic hair? Sorta border. That said, when the Man i am with wants me smooth, it has a far more powerful and affirming effect that Him wanting me to be hairy has. Go figure? In my ideal fantasy world, i would have a Man Who wants/desires me in such a way that i give Him my heart and soul. To me, things like You describe, Him purposely having control in things like my grooming, or opening and molding my hole, owning and controlling my sexual parts... are all part of fucking/mind fuck that makes a relationship/dynamic deeper and more holistic... so, love seeing this IRL.

Been awhile since i've read this thread, hadn't seen half of it prior to it going dormant. To me a bully is at the opposite end of the spectrum from a Man. As i see it, a bully uses things like force and meanness to compensate for their lack of substance, strength and maturity. To me the claims of not valuing the 'object' of their purported derision contradict their pursuit of the the very ones they claim to not value. That they need/want to so devalue another, or be with those who devalue their self, to me, underlines their own lack of self worth. How strong and worthy is the person who needs/wants a 'worthless object' in order to perceive their own value? To me, the Man Who can Dominate and evoke the desire to submit from a person who is not easy but complex, not weak but strong, not stupid but intelligent, is a Man with a capital M. Knowing how to harvest the perfect fruit at the top of the tree is a lot more accomplished and demonstrative of substance and accomplishment than scavenging for the fruit fallen to the ground and in a state of decay. To me what distinguishes an Alpha Human from say an alpha dog, is the added qualities of things like intelligence, caring, compassion. i guess using brute force can work if all you aspire to be is an animal, but it doesn't strike me as a significant accomplishment for a person.

About 10 minutes ago. i feel like a rag doll. my ongoing Sweet FB. He is so fucking built, like every muscle in His body stands out, His arms are almost the size of my legs and the definition on them is so detailed? All that to say, He's an incredible force of nature and i don't know where He gets His marathon stamina. After sucking Him for about 15 minutes, He relentlessly pounded my hole for about 30 minutes. "Pounding" is an inadequate word. i feel so opened and sloppy, i feel like i just took five Cocks with five massive loads. i literally (involuntarily) whimpered half the time and couldn't keep from blurting how much i love Him (jesus, i wonder what He must think?). He obviously likes His power and effect on me, especially while He is fucking me... He verbally expresses affection and pleasure more and more while fucking me, and i wonder if He is maybe a little embarrassed after? idk, but the more He fucks me, the more often He calls and wants more it seems. He's not a talker... but actions speak louder than words in His case. Damn, i have a concrete slab to pour today, not sure i should go to Home Depot in this condition lol, gotta get myself together. i'm a fortunate and grateful guy.

About 15 minutes ago. i needed it so bad, it had been a week. my awesome FB. He kept calling and i'd be at work, so we kept missing each other. i've gotten to this place where the only orgasm i really want is the One a Man has inside of me. i've had that kind of psychological desire for awhile now, but usually cannot stand the tension between random breedings and end up making myself come. It always disappoints me, such a let down because i really want that connection with a Man getting pleasure with me and releasing that into me as an orgasm and seed. Too weird? lol, i find it very fulfilling. i was practically begging for Him when He got here. He had just gotten off work and lately He loves to get sucked before He fucks and breeds me. i get it, i totally get into the zone sucking Him, He so obviously enjoys it, it drives me wild and i get intense, our lust feeds off each other. So i sucked and licked Him for some time till He said He wanted to fuck me. And Damn. He Fucked me hard the whole time. my hole is blasted open. i would tighten around His Cock, and it was like He was trying to wear me out so i couldn't squeeze His Cock with my hole, and finally i just had the proverbial wrecked hole. god i feel good.

Not too common in my experience. But i think the whole sexual spectrum is infinitely complex... and if we are alive, we are fluid. Personally, i don't even wanna rim a guy because any form of penetration feels 'top' to me, and with my emotional wiring, being bottom and sub are wired together. But that is individual, because many can and will argue that a 'true sub' will submit to anything, including topping. i think that puts us back to individuality and the need for communication in order to find a match/matches to who and how we are.

DNA test?

Funny you mention that! i think i saw you (or someone?) in a pic with one on and thought: "Hey, that looks like the one i have." We're practically twins. 😉

i always wear the same bright yellow jock to the gym, hoping some day a Man will understand and piss on or in me.

Here's a pic of how i want to be seen and one of how i am.

What Luxbrit said. There are so many factors involved in getting fucked and seeded, but i think a primary consideration is numbers. The busier the venue, the more Tops looking for a bottom there will be... but then, the more bottoms there will be as well. if you are going to a sauna, there's the visual factor to consider. If you fit the general idea of "hot," you stand a better chance of getting fucked than if you are generally average. And really, that's a weak criteria. i'm tall and slender and try to stay fit. i'm on one site and keep running into Tops Who want a bottom with "a big belly." Beauty is not a universal standard, eh? i've gotten most of my loads in an ABS type setting or a cruise place with booths and glory holes. In that setting, you remove the visual factor and sex gets narrowed down to cocks and holes. Also, i find time of day at one of these places is a big factor. Lunch break or end of day when Men are getting off work and looking for a quick release.

i used to get together with a married couple, two Top Men. One loved to get His cock sucked, the Other loved to fuck. They loved to use one bottom together, and there was no competition. We each got what we wanted/needed. i'm not interested in sex with a man who doesn't want me as much as i want him, It's probably my only criteria for sex. i do not equate bottom with inferior or Top with superior. To me those are expressions of opposite energy that naturally attract, like positively and negatively charged ions attract. i do not see it as a matter of value, i think both can be of equal value. For me, sex is about symbiotic connection of mutual need/desire. i hate the catty attitude and energy of a bottom guy trying to compete or take cock from another bottom. It feels petty and cheap to me. If a top guy wants to make two bottoms compete for him, that comes off as inadequate and decidedly unsexy to me. In either case, i'll walk away, i am not engaged by that. In a group venue like a sex club, i get that some Tops want to rut before they release/orgasm and breed. Sure, i want Their orgasm and seed inside of me, but i also understand that i may just be one of many getting fucked before He wants to cum and call it a night. i know that going in and am grateful for the fuck and am happy if i get to be part of His pleasure.

i think this is an example of one of the top dividing factors in society in general. i think egocentricity breeds and births all manor of ethnocentricity. i see it as a question of immaturity. We hear/read stories of a person going to another country and discovering a whole new collection/culture of people who are different. Sad to me how there are still cultures that try to force their views on others, even going so far as to authorize their behavior by insisting 'God' is behind it! i'm a part of a couple of BDSM discussion forums and it is a common topic of discussion how key communication is to any connection or ongoing relationship. Our labels are just a starting point in a conversation, but how often to we ask what it means to the other person? To me, such presumption stems from egocentricity born of immaturity, and the gay community is just as fraught with it as any other culture. i think a lot (if not most?) of presumption flies under the radar, that we are often not conscious that we do it.

Not boring, but not unusual either. This is a desire that's been written about by lots of guys on BZ. my general feel is that, no matter where we land on the sexual spectrum (i.e., Top, bottom, versatile or anywhere between those), we are all fueled by testosterone. We are raised in heteronormative culture that mostly teaches male and female, attributing behaviors to both. But life isn't like that, there aren't just two standard types, there is infinite variety and innumerable categories. Top, bottom or in between, guys seem driven to breed. Those of us who are seemingly wired with our testosterone to our holes instead of our penis, seem to have the same intense need to be bred as Tops do to breed. i remember one day as a kid hearing a commotion outside. When i looked, there were about 10 Male dogs going after one bitch. The bitch was in heat and the Male dogs were all in a frenzy waiting Their turn to breed her. She took Them all, presenting to the next after One would mount and breed her. It took awhile. Also the first time i ever witnessed two dogs being bound together by a knot. Even as a kid, my feelings watching were i was envious of the bitch and imagined myself in her position. No one taught me that desire, and it was way before the days of the internet porn. i can trace my bottom desires/needs as far back as age 7. As far as i can remember, i have always been this way. Took me a long time to get past the conditioning that as a male i should use my penis to penetrate, fuck and breed females, but life and reality finally got through to me and i accept and am happy to be me. i did go through a time when i was still married to a woman and not only trying to be top, but trying to be straight. i had a lot of this kind of abduction fantasies at that time. For me, i think it was a way of trying to come to terms with being both gay and very bottom. Now, i don't really have that fantasy anymore. i do have an ongoing fantasy of a FB, an intimate ongoing connection where He knows He can have me whenever He wants, but it's a fantasy of connecting mutual desire/need. For me it involves being penetrated while i'm asleep. For me, i think, that represents full submission that He knows that even when i am not conscious, i still want Him. For me, it's an expression of extreme mutual desire/lust... and possessing. i wake up to the feel of Him pressing His cock into me to fuck and cum, or to piss, as He whispers in my ear: "take My Cock, I know you need it." Different and missing for me is the need/desire to be forced, or have the appearance of force. i no longer have any psychological barriers to being penetrated, fucked and bred by a Man. i need/want that and freely give it, my only criteria now is that He wants/needs that too.

Enjoying others observations and thoughts on this. For me, it's more of a recent observation, and not universally so. I.e., i don't find cum always smells like piss. Like others have observed, it can vary. Just something i have been aware of the last couple of years? Odd too, 'ammonia' is not an appetizing scent to me, not something i'd be inclined to ingest, but a Mans Cum? i even hesitate to finger myself after being inseminated for concerns of losing one drop of His precious Self from inside of me. i've had enough piss inside of me, and it's different, consistency as well as scent, though i can imagine a mix. The idea of a little piss being added, inadvertently or purposely, is really hot to me. To me, a Mans piss is a second form of seed. Also, cum does not have the same scent to me as a cocksucker. If i don't happen to get all of His cum down my throat, and it ends up on my face, i've never detected the same piss scent when sucking (and i have received both a Mans cum and piss in my mouth). Either way, i love what comes out of a Mans Cock in all its forms, flavors and scents. Life gives us so many gifts and ways to connect and bond, scent included.