tallslenderguy

i get rock hard when a Man wants to fuck and breed me. If he shows any interest in my penis, it goes soft. If He shows desire for my hole, it gets hard. Whlle getting fucked just physically, it goes soft. While getting mind fucked, it gets hard. i have a meter, not a 'tool.'

Your country seems to be gay friendly on paper, but the culture doesn't seem to have evolved to that ideal. Once you are finished with your medical education, have you considered moving to a more gay friendly place? There was a doctor where i work. i realized i had not seen him for a few months and then came back to work one day an she was back. She had transitioned (mtf) and worked at the hospital where she had been known as a male for several years. She was accepted... people bent over backwards to show acceptance, and those who did not, kept silent. Being in an environment where you feel compelled to hide is "harm." If your friend is gay, it seems evident to me that even though he is 12 years older and established, he still may not feel safe enough to be 'uncloseted.' i do not think your question is 'why you feel like this." You're gay and attracted to men. The challenge seems more that you don't feel free to express who and how you are. i don't think that all has to do with being gay. Straight people also risk rejection when expressing their feelings, but that don't have the added layer or potential stigma of being gay.

We have a few things in common. i too work on healthcare, i'm a critical care nurse in a teaching hospital. Despite being in a position that is stereotyped as "gay" (i.e., male nurse), most of the male nurses i know and work with art straight. sigh. If feels like i have been flirted with from more than a few residents though (probably wishful thinking on my part). i have been hit on by a few women doctors and nurses though. They are always surprised when i tell them i'm gay. i've been at this hospital for 8 years, you'd think it would have gotten around by now that: "paul is gay," but apparently not. The truth is, if one is not obviously (or what is stereotyped as) gay, people will not truly know unless we tell them. i imagine, in part, women do not feel threatened by gay men like they might straight men. I.e., they never have to worry about us only being interested in them so we can get into their panties. Not to say that is "the" reason, but maybe 'a' reason? Gay people grow up in a heteronormative world. Heteronormativity is like an iceberg, some of it floats on the surface and is seen, some of it below the surface, unseen, but it is still there. You have been culturally conditioned (we all have, straights, gays, etc., etc.) But straights don't usually question those things, instead, they call that "normal." Which is part of that below the surface iceberg. Our notions of "normal," right and "wrong" are often culturally conditioned from an early age. Reality it, you do have "a big secret." It's sad you have reasons for that, but you do have a secret that is "big" to you and would be to others as well. That is still a social reality, eh? Yeah, maybe, but we don't know unless we ask, eh? For instance, how do you see your friend? i'm assuming he is single? Not with a woman? If you see yourself as suspiciously "asexual" or "the closeted gay" as a "forever" thing at age 24, how much more so at age 36? Yeah, sorry, i don't mean to come off as one who doesn't use descriptors. i'm grateful for them and use those terms as part of communication all the time. i identify as a "gay, total bottom with some sub thrown in." And, i can trace all those elements back as young as age 7 (retrospectively). So, i'd have to raise my hand when talking about people who's sexuality has remained the same their whole life. It's grown, changed, become more complex, but the basics are the same. It would seem both of you have deep reasons for having this kind of attraction. To me, deep emotional needs/wants are the basis of what are commonly called "kinks." i do think a lot of people manage to disconnect their need/want from their conscious mind, sort of disconnecting their need/want from their "kink" (which to me is a normative term used to label those who are different than the 'norm'). I.e., we have a need/want that we've been conditioned to see as abnormal, because it's different. Yeah, no risk or vulnerablity in that, is there? And i do not think it odd that you are more "intrigued about him letting [you] know him better." The more you know his deep stuff, the more vulnerable he becomes. The less he knows about your deep stuff, the less vulnerable you are. i have this ongoing fantasy that gets transferred from Man to Man over the years. Him meeting me in some hallway and pushing me up against a wall and kissing me passionately. And you can find similar fantasies all over BZ. It's not unusual for us to want to be known and wanted without all the risk that seems to usually accompany getting there. xx

i've taken more anonymous cock than not, often am face down when being penetrated and fucked. my guess is, under those circumstances, no one would be able to tell the difference in cocks. It's the idea with all the baggage that comes with it that makes the difference, not the actual "black dick." When it comes to sex, i have no desire to be the "first" for anyone.

i don't believe you are "overthinking." You're a gay man in a less than accepting world. Just because there are laws that protect gays, and 'things are changing,' does not mean there won't always be people who have some degree of dislike, or even hate, for gay people. Maybe some gay people have only gay friends because they want to feel free to be who they are without the concerns or fears that can be there in general society where there's a mix of everything. You can "just be" you, but that will always come with risks and rewards. That's true about everyone, to some degree, eh? The question is not whether or not you can be you, the question is whether you are willing to take the risk of being open? Conversely, when we hide who we are, we are paying the cost of being unknown, invisible to some degree. i doubt it's "just" you. i think most men are sexual. Just because you're gay doesn't mean that changes, just mean the direction your sex drive takes is towards men instead of women. i think your feeling are perfectly natural, after all, you are gay. Speculating, i subscribe to the spectrum idea of human sexuality, so as much as it might make it simpler if we could just identify everyone in nice neat categories like "gay, straight, bi, etc.," the reality is, there are infinite variations of human sexuality. He has already told you he likes the dad/son relationship. When you pointed out the age difference, he changed it to big/little brother. Both of those are pretty common kinks, and whether or not it ventures into being gay, you already know you both like that. As 'tough' as he likes to be, if he is gay, he (so far) hasn't taken the risk of telling you. And you have not taken the risk of telling him. A universal truth is, when it comes to risk, it's not uncommon for people to want someone else to go first. It's called "being vulnerable" for a reason.

A few minutes ago.Some real advantages to hosting a regular FB at home. my sweet Latino Muscle Top FB. He's doesn't talk much, or share what He likes, so i have to guess, don't wanna make Him feel awkward. Last time He was here i wore a pair of net open back panty things, idk, another FB got them for me, but it definitely brought some animal out in Him. Not one to wear stuff like that on my own, but will definitely wear it if my Top likes it. His profile on the site where we met says He likes panties and lingerie, so i dug a pair of black lace panties out of a drawer where i've collected such things. Not wanting to impede penetration, i cut a slit in the back. He sorta growled when He came in and i was ready and was ass up as always, wearing them. He had no trouble getting in... never does, i'm pretty accessable, but wow, it really brought the beast out in Him He was kissing me all over my back, which drives me wild, and He was pounding me like He was trying to get the tip of His cock to come out of my mouth. He spanked me quite a bit and ended up tearing the back out of the panties and mauling my ass. Fuck, He is the sweetest fucker, He never gets old. Pretty sure i have about a gallon of pre cum in me, He always leaves me sloppy, but i can feel the slippery feel of His seed when i move my legs. Fucking awesome. the panties brought the machismo out in Him, after He was telling em how the women He fucks are half my size, but He still conquers my hole and leaves me marked.

Getting shingles is how i learned i am HIV poz. It wasn't a fun disease, and for me was probably opportunistic related to my compromised immune system because of HIV. It took about 6 weeks to resolve and was hard to diagnose. At first the suspicion was appendicitis, or some intestinal issue because of the symptoms. i eventually developed a rash, but it was minimal, just a few spots. i got on HIV meds immediately and once i became undetectable, my immune system butyl back up and i have not had and issue since. There is a lot of ignorance about vaccines. To me, especially after becoming a nurse, they are the best medicine we have in healthcare. Vaccines waken and employ the bodies immune response vs other interventions where we directly try to kill the disease with a drug. Our bodies are the smartest doctor we will ever have. The drugs we use to directly combat a disease have side effects and are an after the fact response we use once we are sick. Vaccines are preventative medicine.

i don't think any relationship should be based on a static rule. Life is fluid. Which is not to say i don't believe in guiding principles or that i have anything against monogamy. i think if it happens, it should happen because both parties are continually wanting it, not because a rule was made that both now have to obey and force the relationship into. Open, honest communication, to me, is a better foundation for relationship than a rule like monogamy. Lying and cheating often happens because of broken rules, rules that one found at some point they didn't want to, or couldn't keep, for myriad reasons. There's a part of me that likes the idea of monogamy, but when i look at it more closely, it's not so much monogamy that appeals to me, but factors associatied with monogamy. E.g., long term connection with one person with the incumbent opportunities for deeper relationship. But that is something that can be had with a FB.

found this on Amazon [think before following links] https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Camouflage-Cotton-Military-Fabric/dp/B06XXJFDN3/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=Army+Camo+Fabric&qid=1668864274&sr=8-7

Since i made it up, probably most people would have no clue about it.

i'm only one person, and there are lots of views scattered on BZ regarding this topic. With that preface.... To me, it depends on whether or not the woman you are in relationship with knows and your relationship is open. As a formerly married guy (to a woman), i don't recommend cheating and lying. my own story is all over this site, but the short version is i grew up religious, and while i knew from an early age that i am attracted to Men, i didn't accept that and tried to change and be straight, Didn't work. i'm not even Bi, i'm full on total bottom gay lol. What helped me finally accept that fact was years of trying to not have sex or attraction to Men. i was married 5 years before i had my first sex with a Man. i separated after, thinking, this is how i am. But it wasn't that easy for me and 6 months later i got back with my wife thinking i had "gotten it our of my system." Nope, this is a part of me and i learned through a lot of hard times that i literally need to be with a Man. That's me. i know Bi people who can pull it off with just one person and seem to be content and fulfilled, but i'm not Bi, so that was never an option for me. Thing is, i cheated and lied to have sex with Men. i spent a hugh portion of my life on the DL. my story is not uncommon, religion has hurt a lot of gay guys, i'm just one of them. Your reasons are Your own and ultimately only You can answer this question. i hated myself every time i had sex with a Man when i was married. i hated the lies and the cheating. It ate away at me like cancer. While i was having sex, it was sweet because i needed that connection with a Man, but how i was getting it was destructive to me, my former wife and our relationship. i don't recommend doing that for what seems obvious reasons (i.e., lying and cheating). If, on the other hand, You are doing this openly and honestly... Hell yeah!! There is obviously a part of You that needs/wants to breed a man and there is nothing wrong with that, it is a part of Who and how You are. Sadly, You too are likely victim of cultural standards, but You do not have to be. Personally, i would recommend You do this in a way that You can be true and honest and get the full benefit of being and exercising Who You are. i know, that has a price, but in my experience, it is well worth it. i approached my former wife about an open relationship, she was religious and it was a hard "no" from her. Frankly, i told her of my attraction to Men before we married, but at that time we both thought that was a choice one could make, and that sex between two men was "sin." We divorced in 2008, and it was like a huge weight was lifted. i had peace for the first time in my life, and that has not changed to this day. i love my freedom to be who and how i am and would not ever go back or trade that for a situation where i have to lie or cheat to get what i need. i wish You the best, that cock deserves a bottoms hole.

i think there's a lot of good answers here, i particularly ditto steve-tmq that you: "...already know the answer." At least in part? You wrote a whole list of reasons why you are attracted to and obsessed with getting fucked BB. Couple more thoughts. i think a lot of the reasons behind asking in the first place is because our form of sex violates the heteronormative standards that most follow and have been conditioned by, so people who are different from those standards can end up with the question: asking why i am attracted and obsessed in this way vs why the attraction and obsession exists. i think ErosWired and atlfukbud have some good answers for that. Straights may investigate the latter question, but they never feel challenged to explain their attraction or obsession to the opposite gender like gays are. Pain. The truth is, it can be painful for a woman to get fucked. Especially the first time, they often bleed. But a women's vagina has to be opened too. Regular sex fixes that for most. Personally, i cannot remember the last time i felt pain from being penetrated by a Man. Even my first time was not painful, but by the time i received my first cock, i had already been penetrating and opening myself with pretty much everything i could find lol. One could argue that an asshole is better equipped in some ways to receive cock. What comes out is not far from cock sized and similarly shaped, the hole dilates naturally to create a passage. A woman's vagina gets 'wrecked' when she has a baby, but unlike the asshole, that's not a daily, livelong occurrence like a BM is for most. Mess. All sex organs have a dual function of 'waste' removal. Every 21 days or so, a woman's body has what could be compared to a BM, a 7 day, 24 hour 'movement' of her uterus as it sheds and bleeds and is removed from her body by her body. Some straight guys will fuck 'dirty' and some gay guys will fuck 'dirty.' Women douche, gay guys who receive cock douche. Another conditioned response is the notion that sex is about procreation. Religious cultures have used that one to control people since the beginning of civilization it seems. i think it's safe to say that people who have sex just to make a baby are in a tiny minority, straight, gay or otherwise. Even the scientific notions of survival of the species is speculative. Sure, pleasure contributes to our survival, but there is no actual proof that sexual pleasure is just as important as the baby it may produce. We certainly have a lot of natural examples of other animals having 'gay' sex.

i made "haunting" up as an extrapolation on ghosting.

Delusional? lol, maybe. Fortunately i've got a wee bit of crust and experience. i did write him today and laid it out to him about the ghosting and haunting. He sent me a note back apologizing for taking so long to get back and saying he is interested, but in the process of moving and will write a detailed response. drumroll.... No, not holding my breath. Now that i have a response, i can at least settle in my mind that he was just inconsiderate. I.e., it prolly took all of 30 seconds to write that, why did he wait 9 days? How come he has time to look at my profile, but still didn't take the time to say something to me? Really no excuse, i mean it's not like his grandmother died. i'm being transparent writing this thread, but i'm not a wounded bird lying in the corner or pining for him as though he is other than he has been. The core off my original thread is really the curiosity of someone who not only would ghost someone... pretty common internet fare, but then continues to 'haunt' by visiting the profile, but still not saying anything. i suspect that is not uncommon either. It's like the internet caters to a whole segment of people and i wonder what these people would be doing without the internet? Would they be more apt to exercise polite social skills? Are they the shy people who can't bring theirslves to speak with someone they're interested in? The majority of guys i see, even on relationship oriented sites, don't have a profile of any substance, yet they claim to be looking for relationship. It's so strange to me that they seem to think that will happen without any effort on their part, that somehow someone will just magically intuit enough about them to make first contact, then work their ass off trying to get them to say something besides "i like long walks on the beach." i mean, is that code for i will not live inland? sorry.

Last night. my regular FB. He had contacted me on Monday, and i was at work and was not able to. He contacted me again yesterday afternoon and i was at a meeting and had forgotten my phone. After the meeting i went to the gym to do my skinny white boy routine, and His message popped up on my watch. i texted back and told Him i'd be home at 7 and we agreed to meet then. At 650, i got a message that something came up and He couldn't come then, but maybe later. He ended up coming by at 815 pm. This guy is a sweet, young (25?) Latino Muscle Jock. Not sure about Him, but i definitely have developed affection for Who and how He is as a person. He has this sweet, unassuming, almost shy demeanor. He softly and affectionately touches me and kisses my neck and shoulders with similar energy. Yet, when He gets going, He also spanks my ass. What's not to love? But He is soooo quiet. He never talks about His sexual desires or fantasies. i have even tried writing to Him about that stuff on the hookup site where we met, He never responds to what i wrote, so idk. He does say a few specific things on His profile, not much, but that He likes lingerie (not for Himself), so i put on a pair of open back lace panties last night that another Man who likes that gave me. i am always laying naked, face down and presenting when He comes in my opened back door, and He commented when He saw them: "ah, you put on some nice undies." That was all He said. He's normally a physically passionate Fucker, if not vocal, but He was obviously ramped up, even for Him. i almost came (my penis is never touched) a couple of times from His hard, slamming fucking. i had a very gaped, sloppy hole after, and His seed went deep, past the 'second' hole, which doesn't always happen with Him, so i was able to absorb all His seed last night. i'm not naturally, or probably more accurately, independently fem. Honestly, i don't think i am "fem' at all, but i do get turned on by a Top who sees me that way, or Who gets off on feminizing me in a way? Who thinks of and treats my hole as a pussy, who doesn't see me as having a 'cock.' i won't 'act' like a 'gurl,' it's just not me, it's more a kind of mind fuck of Him treating and seeing me that way, brings something other out of me. He was obviously turned on, and that connected to something in me. Yet another beautiful fuck, but it always is.

i think that's a good point, a person can indeed be objectified and comes with accessories that a inanimate object lacks. Many want that on both sides of this equation. i too believe that many, if not most?, of our psychosexual needs/desires have deep, primal roots. i think one of he reasons i personally despise 'role play' is because i think it disguises or hampers seeing, and possibly understanding, the real source or reasons behind what we do. Not that i feel the need to always understand. i don't understand why i am gay, for instance, but that does not hamper my acceptance or exercise of it. To me, part of the adventure, joy, benefit, ________, of connecting with another human being is the opportunity of discovery, learning and knowing both them and my self, so i am for seeing and knowing behind the mask, even if one chooses to still wear one. i think it's correct to at least suspect culturally ingrained behaviors, especially where they may be destructive instead of creative. i think cultural conditioning has created fear in us that if we see and accept ourselves for who we are, we will somehow lose that, or have to give it up, so we accept the cultural definitions that at least acknowledge some part of us. A lot of our perceptions of sexuality have a blend of observations from (other) animals. For instance, animals use sex to assert order and position in the pack. A difference i see is choice. Physically, i can Top. i can "play" the dominant "role" and pull it off in a way that gets me seen and accepted as such. i was married to a woman for much of my life, produced a couple of sons. i was always 'top' in that relationship. Psychosexually? It didn't work, even though socially that is how i performed and how i was perceived. For me it was "role play" of a sort, based on ingrained cultural conditioning and following a culturally conditioned script. i do not perceive a dog, for instance, choosing the bottom role . i do not see him being able to role play being alpha, but i think humans can and do do that in many instances. How many bottoms have expressed having jobs of authority and dominant position, yet sexually they want to give up control. One variation. Being a total bottom, i do not feel inferior or less than a Top, yet i LOVE the feeling of another Man being in control and dominating me sexually... but not in any way like a top. I.e., being a bottom for me is about being a receiver and container of a Top Mans need/desire to penetrate me with Himself and leave a part of Himself in a space in me that wants/needs Him. To me, it is a more basic expression of nature, like negatively, positively or neutral ions that attract and bond.

Yeah, i am hyper aware of spammers. They do not usually give their emails, just ask for yours. He intimated on the gay site, and i responded there and by email. Thinking, as you did, that my emails may have gone to spam i wrote him on the dating site stating as much. He has not responded to my emails or my notes on the gay site, but still keeps visiting my profile. Pretty confident he's not a spammer. i just sent him another note asking him why he hasn't responded and yet keeps visiting my profile. He's visited 2x today? We'll see if he responds. my fear is, he'll just be to embarrassed and continue on. Not really anything to do about it, eh? my intent i posting was not to focus on this particular person, just use it as an example of "ghosting" and "haunting".

i have an account on a couple of gay sites i deem as more relationship vs just hook-up sites. i'm far from traditional when it comes to relationship, not looking to emulate heteronormative approach to relationship and not looking to marry. That said, i would like to have a significant other of some sort, so i have profiles on a couple of sites purportedly more geared to relationship... whatever form that may take, but more than a one night, anonymous hook-up. Most of us have experienced ghosting. For me, the most hurtful ghosting happens on this kind of site. i don't spend much time trying to hook on the aps, mostly because of flakes and ghosts, just not worth it to me. What hurts more deeply though is when someone on a dating site initiates something with me, then ghosts me. i have really detailed profiles on those sites to begin with, so most of the guys who initiate with me typically have a good idea of who they are initiating with, usually much more than what they offer in their own profile. They're out there, but Guys who have self knowledge and willingly share some of that beyond being "nice, eating out, hiking and walks on the beach" in Their profile, are rare. So there's usually an imbalance of info to start with. i recently was contacted by a guy on one of these sites. He has a short, but better than average profile. He also initiated contact with more than three words, even more than three sentences. He also didn't live half a world away, just an hour, which is pretty good by internet standards lol. He gave me his email, and i gave mine to him. So i wrote him an email answering his initiating note, and a bit more. And... nothing. i didn't say anything new that was not already in my profile, if anything, i affirmed his note and what he was looking for. Nothing (been 2 weeks now). That's the ghosting part, and while my hopes were stepped on with all the usual feelings, i was moving away from them. Then, recently, he has been visiting my profile on the dating site. Still not saying a word or responding to my emails, but now he is a ghost who is haunting me lol. Sigh. WTF?!? He seemed to be an intelligent guy. i can only speculate, but i don't think he's just using my profile to jack off lol... though there are a couple of vids on my profile one could do that with. His profile says he's looking for more. i want to believe guys like this are not lying, they are just ignorant, immature (or a combination of both), and are ill equipped to have a relationship of any significance? i want to believe most of the guys who do this are not purposefully hurtful, that they are just ignorant or lazy, or both. Part of me wants to write this guy and explain the effect he has had and is having, i.e., educate the ignorant? On the other hand, i fear i might just be opening myself to more offensive behavior if his ego can't handle the truth. Mostly, i am just venting and opening discussion on the topic, with the now added "haunting" element. Seems a variation on stalking, but doesn't seem the same to me, i mean, how does a ghost stalk? (rolls eyes at life)

i've bottomed my hole life and have never experienced a mess. It's not so much the "mess" i worry about, but turning off the Man i'm with, or worse, disgusting Him. For me, the accompanying desire/needs of both are what's important, so i want to avoid anything that interferes with that. The implication of the OP is that an unclean hole is creating a disconnect between this Guy and His boyfriend, i'd hate that. i wonder if the bottom senses what the Top is feeling? i have a FB who is similarly inexperienced, but Top. If He is telling the truth, i'm the only guy He fucks. He's Bi and has a girl friend. Despite my attempts at explaining, He clearly has little to no idea what a bottom has to do to prepare. He does rinse the smell of sex off in my shower before returning to His straight life, so He always sees the shower shot in my shower, used prior to His visit. Thing is, He is spontaneous. He's been breeding me for a couple of years now and our hook-ups always are pretty instant. He texts: "free rn" (i.e., free right now), and only lives 15 minutes away. Lately, He's even closer and wants to breed. He will text me all hours of the day, sometimes 2x a day. He'll go a few days and nothing, then several in a row. i have no idea when He's going to text or want to fuck... which is natural of course. Thing is, His perception is He can pretty much get it whenever, all a Top has to do is stick it in, no real prep required. If an 'accident' is going to happen, it'll prolly be with Him lol. i scramble to get ready so i can accommodate His desire, and so far, it's been fine. A few times i've had some trapped water, but been clean. The truth is though there have been times when i just ate or don't want to have to do a rush or instant clean out, and we both miss out as a result. When two guys end up living together, the realities of prep are harder to disguise. i have fantasized of having a Top BF Who's lust is greater than His squeamish response, the He would fuck me when He wants/needs no matter what, and would be happy with that, it would be freeing for both. i have never seen a gay romantic movie where the topic of clean out is ever even alluded to, just tow guys having dinner at a restaurant, going home and passionately fucking as soon as the door closes when they get home. Right... i'll go a whole day without eating in anticipation of possibly being fucked, so He can have a clean hole, but really because i want Him to fully love what He is doing and getting.

One of the thoughts this "food" evoked: Do some cumdumps/bottoms help support and perpetrate the self absorbed/immature/inconsiderate attitudes of some? i don't think it's a black or white issue, but how many bottoms/cumdumps openly advertise and project that they are and want to be treated as "worthless" or "merely a fuckhole," "an object to be used" or "trash" or "______________." i think it's complicated. One can speculate on all sorts of reasons why some get into the kind of Top/bottom dynamic where Top is considered superior and bottom inferior. i think a lot of those who do this are often trying to meet a need that is more subtle than the manifest or projected desire. For instance, i think a lot of guys indulge in role play, but that is not the same as them believing they are actually the equivalent of the role they are playing. So, one may play the role of "trash" in an attempt to evoke a sort of primal lust from a potential experience, they want to get fucked by the TrashMan lol? Or on the other side, a guy may assume an attitude of superior indifference or swagger, playing a role as well because He needs/desires His cock and seed and associated lust to be needed/desired. If all He needed/desired was an "object" or "trash," a fleshjack could do. The goal of both is essentially the same: to elicit desire/need from the other for their own particular need/desire. i don't think of Top/bottom as superior/inferior, but i think that is where part of the problem derives. If one thinks of their self as inferior, worthless, trash, where's the surprise when a certain number of guys treat them as such? Again, i don't think this is a simple question or answer. i think a lot of what is real about who and how we are gets blurred behind the roles and labels we use and assume, that we end up not seeing or losing touch with the real reasons behind our desires, serving the labels instead of just using them as a means to attempt to communicate what is really there, what is really felt, what is really wanted/needed.

hntnhole mirrors several of my thoughts and feelings on this one. At the end of the day, i don't really want this kind of guys seed inside of me. Getting bred for me is more than just me getting sex, it's about both of us getting our desires/needs met. To me, the connection is way to important to reduce and denigrate it the way some do. When a Man has His orgasm inside of me, to me He is having His pleasure, desire, need inside of me. There's a connection, transference, impartation of Himself into me. The lying, fake flakes... i don't want them or their seed inside of me. i think hntnhole is right, it all adds up and ends up hurting them more than us. We are better off without them. they sully our environment, definitely a pollutant. Like hntnhole, i've gotten to a place where i try to avoid the places that seem to be the most polluted with them.

"Bathhouses as Communal Brothels" Not to me. i think i understand the point being made, but it's a stretch to far for me. Paying for an opportunity to have sex (e.g. a bathhouse), is not the same as paying the individual i am having sex with as a requisite to having sex with Him (whether directly or through an intermediary like a pimp or "brothel"). A vital element of sex for me is an expression of mutual desire/need. I.e., each person involved wants/needs the other persons need/desire for fulfillment. While an argument might be made that a sex worker 'loves' his work, from my side, i would not be able to get around my aversion to the notion he is only, or primarily, having sex with me for money. Lol, i won't even have sex with a versatile guy unless i am confident he really wants a total bottom at the time. Why? Because His fulfillment is connected to mine, and if i feel i cannot honestly give Him what He wants/needs, i'd rather go without. my perception of a bathhouse is it's a place where guys go to get there sexual needs/desires met, not their monetary desires/needs. All are paying for the opportunity, neither party is being financially remunerated. If i thought someone was being paid to have sex with me, even as a gift, i'd pass.

Our responses crossed in the ether, but i wondered if some of my response might answer Your thoughts. i think you nail it with "Well, how about communicating then...." i think that's the challenge because what we are trying to communicate doesn't have words or common context that's specially equipped to convey those wants/needs on either side of the slash. Add to that, that for many, i don't think this leaves the emotions and travels up to the frontal lobe where it's been given much thought or rationale... which seems necessary to me if we're going to try to communicate this stuff with words. Here's an example for context that uses "destroyed" as a descriptor: A Top tells me He wants to "destroy" or "wreck" my hole. i don't think most tops or Tops literally want to destroy/wreck the bottoms hole. i think the sexual spectrum comes into play, and their are some tops that literally want to destroy/wreck the thing they desire/need/crave, that if they can destroy the object of their desire/need, they can remove the opportunity for expression. i think most tops (or bottoms) who use those terms fall into a sort of in between place and "destroyed/wrecked" doesn't literally mean either. i stumble over those words whenever a top uses them with me and i have not heard the tone or attitude he has when using them. There are more neutral words that some use "stretch, open, ______," but are less... passionate, lol. And i think 'passion' is the crux of it. That the drive or our needs/wants (Top or bottom) are primal. As i see it, one attribute of a "Top" is He is hard wired to create and a bottom is hired wired to be the clay the Top uses to mold and create. i see the desire/need for a "wrecked/destroyed" hole as a expression of impregnation, creation, effecting, marking, connecting. i think those are some of the drivers and needs being fulfilled, but the heteronormative terms and situations we grew up with don't quite fit, so we have to come up with new and different ways to communicate our different needs/wants, which is further complicated by the emotional conditioning we have against those things, so our terms often end up being paradoxical. Also, our experiences, depending on the individuals involved.

"Most degrading thing "straight" guy has done to you?" my original answer wasn't really a good one for the actual question. Taken on it's own, as a simple question, for me the most degrading thing a straight guy has done to me is reject or treat me as less than because i'm gay. Rationally, i think he degrades himself more than me in that attitude/act, but emotionally, i can be devastated even by a casual acquaintance who does that. i don't think any guy ('straight' or otherwise) who ends up using me sexually qualifies as "rejecting" me. Nothings says "i need/want you" like putting your cock and seed in a person. i believe a lot of the guys who feel the need to be mean about the connection are transferring their lack of self esteem onto the guy they are using and the person they are rejecting is their self. Referring back to my original response, i have been with Men who have the need/desire to "degrade," but have an honest and affectionate acceptance of who and how They are, as well as an honest and affectionate acceptance of who and how Their recipient is. i've come to believe that the feelings of degradation and humiliation that both are experiencing are deeply embedded culturally conditioned emotions. That there's a sort of dissonance that can be experienced where need/desire is affirmed and fulfilled, even though it evokes conditioned emotions at the same time. i suspect it's not the actual degradation or humiliation that is so powerfully erotic and pleasurable, but the deep acceptance, lust and need that is being expressed for who we are, despite the conditioning against those things.

my personal desire/need for degradation took me a long time to understand. It's not generic, actually has to have certain elements for me. i do not consider myself 100% sub, rather, i have sub connecting places that some Tops have surfaced. If a guy is forceful or bulling, purposefully mean, all of those things shut me down, close me off. Depending on the guy, it can even result in a defensive reflex in me. i was with a guy at a bathhouse once who was on top of me and pinched my nipples really hard, he was instantly on the floor and me on top of him. He saw i was pissed and backed way down and we went forward in a vanilla way, He bred me. my need/desire for degradation is mixed with my Top being affectionate, but also needing/wanting to degrade me. For instance, WS can be a big connecting place in me, but it all depends on His tone. i hate role play, so if is just by rote, it doesn't work. Also, opened if He is just doing it because i want/need it. The connection of mutual need/desire has to be there. He has His cock in my mouth or ass and wants/needs to piss, there's this energy that can happen where He discerns i want/need it and it's like both our need/desire connects and feeds off each other. i've experienced this, and it's been FUCKING INCREDIBLE. He starts out a little tentative, sort of feeling me out, but when He sees He has me, He continues with a matter of fact confidence, for instance, His cock may be in my mouth and He says: "i really want to you to drink my piss from my cock." His tone and expressed desire connect to my desire to be used in that degrading way and my response encourages Him to open more, saying: "i want to use you as my toilet." Again, my heat ramps up, and He sees His power and effect on me and continues to control the situation: "you really want to be my toilet, don't you." Getting me to admit it's true. He has not made me do anything, what He has done is exposed me as someone who loves Him and His desire to use me as His toilet. THat's a culturally degrading act, but for me it is simultaneously degrading, fulfilling and affirming. That's just one example for me.