hntnhole

First, welcome suboutwest. I hope you find this amazing site as inspirational as the rest of us, and we're looking forward to hearing more from you. To the reference of an "online" Master, have you ever met him? If all contact between you and he have been online, how much do you know about him, other than what he's told you? In the Bd/Sm world, personal (I mean, in-the-flesh) communication is the foundation upon which any Master/slave, Daddy/boy, Dom/sub relationship is built. I encourage you to set up some reason/excuse to go visit him, and at least become familiar with him in person, and sooner rather than later. This seems to be rather a serious step to take for an "online" Master, particularly since your already married (to a woman, I'm assuming). There are all kinds of sexual situations that we might find "extremely arousing", because they fire up the imagination, the Lusts, the kind of sexual license that stirs our in-born need for sex with others like us. The issue should scare you. What appears to entice you - as I understand it - is the prospect of being used as a sexual object by men like me, the behavior (or freedom) to express our in-born sexuality freely, without cultural/emotional encumbrances, whenever we like. That's expressing a need for honesty within yourself, and only you can do that. It's the wanton behavior that may entice you, or the prospect of submission to another man, or any number of behavior-related acts. Human sexuality is a richly laid-out banquet table, with all kinds of delicious depravities, some of which we find most tasty, some of which we don't. Of course, the sense of taste can only be achieved in person - not over the ether. You're correct in sensing that sexual freedom is something lacking in your life, and you very much want that. More, you should have it - once you've really thought through what you really want out of life. Some of us thrive, are enriched by living life with the freedom to fuck anywhere, anytime, with anyone that makes our Cocks hard, and that's a choice we've made. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't; I'm saying take the steps to protect yourself from life-long health problems first, before acting in some irreversible way. Get on PrEP - it's the best chance to protect your health in the future, regardless of what ever else you wind up doing. Get tested regularly for the other, lesser bugs that you will certainly get at some point. All of us get the lesser infections occasionally, get them treated, and then continue our life's journey. No, you're not. You may be bisexual, but you're not "straight". You may be trying to "pass" as straight, but you're only trying to convince yourself (or worse, others), which is intrinsically inaccurate at the very least. Take some time to figure out what you really want out of life, take as long as it takes. There is no gun-to-your-head deadline, some guys take months, some guys take years. The point is to figure out what will make you a whole, complete man. You don't mention what the relationship to your wife is, and I'm not asking, but that will be an issue at some point; seems it always is. All I'm asking you do to is figure out how you want to get the most out of your life, and protect your health until you know yourself more deeply. Know what you want, know the potential price to be paid for your freedom, make a clear-headed decision, and then have a fantastically fulfilling Life. My best wishes to you, whatever you decide.

Ahhhhh !!! Thanks so much, rawTOP. I love Berlin, but apparently now I can move back "home" !!!

I'm sorry to know it's happened to you. Most of us go through situations at some point that require us to put our own needs aside and help others. Hopefully things will get resolved soon, and you can return to a more favorable pattern in the near future.

You're completely correct in pointing out the original post asked a fairly amorphous question of us, and most of us responded in the same way. As often happens, this most interesting thread developed legs of it's own. As I see it, this is the purpose of these discussions: we get to share our perspectives on many issues, and do it in a safe, non -judgemental fashion. As you point out, to the general question of asked about the general question of "outing", a substantial majority responded in the same general way. When we got down to some of the nitty gritty however, the discussion developed a deeper, richer exchange of ideas. Other than Breeding Zone, where else in the gay ether do we have the opportunity to do this? We learn to grow in our human-ness from each other, and that's a really cool thing. Almost makes me want to forgive whoever it was that invented the internet in the first place - and although he claimed to, I rather doubt it was Al Gore.

Agreed. Another way to put it might be: casual sex is transactional - each guy gets out of it what he puts into it. As long as each respects the other's needs, it's all good. Some guys enjoy, perhaps even need to be treated like "trash". I don't know or understand anything about that inclination, but I don't have to either. All I need to do is respect it. Congrats. I don't think all that many Tops are interested in that kind of behavior anyway, but again, a scene between two guys is essentially a brief "contract", and "special effects" should always be mentioned before the scene, if only to inform the other guy what's desired/expected. For example, I wouldn't consider performing some of the debasing acts that may be desired by a bottom, and both he and I would excuse ourselves with a smile and a "good luck, bud". Exactly. All of us need to reflect on who we are, what do we need/want from our sex partners, Find out who we are. Do the intellectual work. Root out the cultural bullshit, and figure out how to be whole, emotionally healthy men that fuck each other without any barriers to our fulfillment. I'm sorry this was your experience, and I hope you've recovered as fully as possible from it. Again, this particular ethic is entirely situational. It's absolutely possible to share your life with a man who you deeply love, and who returns that love - all they while being as promiscuous as your Lusts will allow. I know this because I enjoyed exactly this kind of relationship for just over 30 years. While he and I performed all kinds of outrageous sexually acts, we did so together, we did so singly, and we loved each other until the moment he passed. Love is definitely not an illusion, but it can be hard to find. I know I was more fortunate in this regard than many, but I also know that it's a real possibility. Neither of us were "ashamed" of any sexual exploits, we enjoyed our sexuality completely, just like every other less ... "thrilliing?" aspects of our lives. So when are you going to add the appropriate title to your screen name? Maybe you could consider "PozTalkAuthorPhilosopher" ??? 🤍

Thanks for your well-thought-out response. These ethical questions we're discussing seem to wind up in a similar place, that being that our individual ethics, while possibly varying in personal identification, are - in the end - situational decisions all folks need to make/observe as best they can. It's good to be able to discuss, engage with our peers on issues like this, and if I had to choose only one reason why I enjoy BZ so much, this discussion would be #1 on my own personal list.

This is the most obvious oxymoron I've seen or heard in a long time. There is no possible way a man could be both a practicing gay man (i.e. having regular gay sex at night) and an "upright Evangelical Christian" during the day. The implication, is at the very least, one of a seriously disturbed "dual personality"; more likely a man of breathtaking dishonesty first with himself, and certainly with others. These two characteristics are like oil and water - they simply do not mix. No man (or woman) could actually be both at the same time, since the message of the Evangelical faction of Christianity demands that adherents reject any sexual contact outside of Church-sanctioned marriage; and obviously only with the opposite sex, for the purpose of procreation. As to the "absolute privacy" reference, there is no such thing, other than living alone on some deserted island in the middle of some ocean. This would obviate any chance of having sex with another human being. In our society/world-order, there are degrees of rights-of-privacy, but none are absolute. We simply depend on the decency of our fellow human beings to honor this cultural tradition, mostly honored for fear of that tradition not being honored by others towards us. It applies to most facets of everyday life, but it's anything but "absolute". Each of us gets to decide where on that scale of relativity where we want to live our lives, but frankly, there is only one "absolute"; that being the fact that each our lives will end one day. Everything else is relative and/or situational.

I'll gladly take both - but if pressed to decide on one or the other, my Cock votes for the group scene ...

I have every confidence that you will change the name of that location: from Blackpool to .... wait for it .... CUMPOOL !!! 😉

Just a reminder - it's a great bar, but during the renovation (new owners = physical plant repairs), there may not be much fucking going on. However, there's plenty of that adjacent to/behind the used furniture store on the corner, and until dawn.

Excellent !!! Hopefully there will be plenty of men in the traditional sartorial splendor of your nation: KILTS - with no other interfering garments underneath them. They can skip the bagpipes though; I reckon there will be better things to blow ...

Thanks for stepping into the light, ktopper. We look forward to hearing more from your extensive years of experience !!

While I'm uncut, the foreskin pulls back by itself when I'm hard (maybe it just got tired of trying to re-cover (or recover?) the head after all these years, and the sensation of a lot of thick, wiry Holehair on the rim of the Cockhead is one of my favorite sensations. Plus, the visuals of a wet, thickly haired Hole - tongue-wrestling any Sperm off previous Cocks out of the Holehair - is one of life's total pleasures.

You "nutshelled" this discussion perfectly, and I'll go one more step: Actively gay men publicly maligning men in our community, while attempting to remain in the closet, is a fool's errand.

First, thanks for your well thought out responses to this interesting topic. Per the above quote, it's the initial act of some public figure (who is also an active gay, actively having gay sex) demeaning, attacking, denigrating others who are also actively gay, and doing so in the full light of day. That's the difference. Say you saw someone beat up some other person on the street, resulting in serious injury. And ambulance comes. The cops come. They go door-to-door trying to get some information on the perp, in an effort to visit Justice upon the guy that administered the beating. Would you tell the cops that no - you have no idea who it was, when you witnessed the beating and could at least give a description of the attacker? Would the "I don't want to get involved" attitude be excusable? The initial act of brutality deserves - by it's very nature - Justice, even if there were some potential, unknown-to-you "reason" the injured party "deserved" the beating. That would be for the Courts (i.e. Justice) to determine, wouldn't it? Describing the assaulter wouldn't be tattling on, informing on the perp, it would be allowing each those two involved in the actual beating to have their issue heard in Court (again, Justice). By extension, when public figures who happen to be actively gay agitate publicly against their own kind, inciting hatred, which often leads to violent acts against the demeaned group, I see that as a completely different situation. Outing those who attack me (and by extension, my community of 'out' gays) is not merely an opportunity to advance Justice, it's entirely reasonable, and should be no surprise to the initial attacker. When one lives in a glass house, and throws stones at others who live in the same glass houses, they deserve by any measure of Justice to have a rock or three thrown at their house in response. This is my $0.02 worth, in a most interesting discussion.

One day I look forward to hearing your reactions to this scene (meaning, at least 5) in Gaelic !!

I'm sorry to know this happened. It does, however, speak to the requirement that an experienced Top will perceive that a certain kind of play is appropriate, while another type (or gear) is not. Gear such as sounds can enhance a Bd/Sm scene a hundred-fold if the Top knows what he's doing. If he doesn't, it can "destroy the desire", as jagmanaz so poignantly points out. For the right pair of guys, Bd/Sm gear can throw open the doors to a whole 'nother level of "mating" - but it is simply a requirement that experience trumps (excuse the usage) lust every single time. I admire your lust for trying new, exciting experiences, jagmanaz. Please give it another chance at some point - but with an experienced Bd/Sm Top at the helm.

There are different techniques for different situations. One can play a cello violently, or sweetly - smooth as silk - depending on the score and the composer's notations. Similarly, one can deliver one rough & tough fuck that will bring a sweat to the brow, or one can "play" the Hole so sweetly it will bring a tear to the eye of either the bottom or the Top or both. Communication is paramount - whether spoken or silent, for each guy to get what he most needs. It all depends on one's intent, and the skill one possesses to effect the desired out-come.

There's a possible exception to this type of transaction: Say some gay guy lost his job, then his home, and winds up hungry. Say he's been through the mill in any of a number of ways, has not achieved much education, skills, all of that. Troubles come to a lot of people, sometimes through no fault of their own. It's not outside the realm of possibility that the only thing the guy can do to keep food in his belly is to hook up for cash. Someone once said around a couple of millennia ago: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, etc, etc. That Someone didn't say grill the person in need for the reasons they're down, just do the humane thing. And I'm guessing that same Someone would offer that after the fuck, buy the unfortunate guy some dinner too. Call me a Bleeding Heart Liberal .... I'm ok with that.

That's what I call a real dilemma, Flared. Do you have any plans for higher education? If so, make sure you choose a college in a larger city, far from your current location. That will help tremendously with your journey to sexual freedom. It's a lot easier to be from someplace, and free to be the man you were born to be, than spending too much time wishing you were. Good luck !!

As a former publisher, I know a First Class Ad when I see one - and I just did !!!

That's true, and more true in certain areas. Largely rural locations, "conservative" States in particular. This is most likely why there are such substantial GLTB+ populations in major metro areas. When someone comes to terms with their "different-ness" from the majority of the population, it's no wonder that they 'get outta Dodge' as soon as they can, and move to a more non-judgemental area where they can live their lives more freely. One happy result of that migration is, there's more prospective partners per several square blocks in a large city (in the gay neighborhoods) than existed in an entire county where they grew up. One unhappy result is, the population of wherever they ditched is an even more concentrated population of willful ignorance. Then, the remaining repressive residents* start to complain that they can't "keep" their brightest and best in the area, completely ignorant of the reasons why. The resulting concentration of repressions in some areas is merely one of the issues holding back the development of Justice for all citizens of our nation. Worse, I don't see any remedy on the horizon of our national future. That doesn't mean we don't continue to press for Justice, but it may mean that the Moral Arc of the Universe may be changing course for the worse, at least here in the U.S. Fight back, brothers (and sisters), before our gains advancing Justice for all begin to dissolve before our very eyes. *admittedly, alliteration is one of my favorite literary devices

Well said. What's good for the gander, is good for the (other) gander too.

Oh !!! I didn't know that, and now I do. Thanks for the correction, viking8x6.

Interesting subject matter: there aren't any cast-in-concrete answers to the question, and it implies degrees of harm to the 'out' GLBT+ communities (apologies if I left anyone out). Some married guy that sneaks off to take loads once in a while is one thing. No one's business but his own. Some gay politician that attacks gays/lesbians publicly, and then sneaks off to the tubs to fuck - or some cleric that thunders from his pulpit against gays/lesbians and then sucks off the altar boys is something else entirely. When no one but the conflicted guy is harmed by his behavior, there's no harm to either the gay community or the public perception of us. In that case, let the alleged "outer" stew in his own juices until one fine day he (hopefully) wakes the hell up. I vote for live and let-live, until the closeted guy opens his mouth, publicly condemning his own kind to whatever self-centered end his fevered mind can dream up. Publicly demonizing any group of folks is, by definition, an open invitation to an equally public response by the attacked community. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones in the first place.